SSBU Icon.png

Roy (SSBU)

From SmashWiki, the Super Smash Bros. wiki
Jump to navigationJump to search
This article is about Roy's appearance in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. For the character in other contexts, see Roy.
For information on the playable Koopaling, see Bowser Jr. (SSBU).
in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
Roy SSBU.png
Universe Fire Emblem
Other playable appearances in Melee
in SSB4

Availability Unlockable
Final Smash Critical Hit
Tier S (8)

Roy (ロイ, Roy) is a playable character in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, officially confirmed on June 12th, 2018 and is an unlockable fighter akin to his appearance in Super Smash Bros. Melee. Roy is classified as Fighter #25.

This is the first time in the Super Smash Bros. series where Roy is not voiced in Japanese in all regions. In international releases, Roy is voiced in English by Ray Chase, who reprises his role from Fire Emblem Heroes. Jun Fukuyama's portrayal of Roy from Super Smash Bros. 4 was repurposed for the Japanese version.

Roy is ranked 8th out of 82 on the tier list, placing him in the S tier. This is a massive improvement from his mid-tier placement in SSB4, where he was ranked 41st out of 54, and is his best placement in the series. He is one of the veterans with the largest improvement in the transition from SSB4 to Ultimate, along with Pac-Man. Roy has fast air and dash speeds which, combined with great frame data in his aerials and tilts, gives him a strong combo game and several mix-up options. The new mechanics in Ultimate also benefit Roy by making it easier for him to hit his sweetspot at the hilt and thus making it easier for him to take stocks at a relatively early percentage. Finally, Roy possesses a strong set of specials such as Double-Edge Dance, which has been improved from the previous game to be overall faster and stronger.

However, Roy also has several weaknesses. Roy's fast falling speed makes it easy for him to be comboed, and he has little options that allow him to escape. His recovery is also weak compared to other characters, as Blazer covers little vertical distance, making it possible for Roy to die early due to a gimp. Finally, Roy's raw strength relies on him getting the sweetspot at the hilt, which means he either has to get dangerously close to his opponent to hit it or deal minimal knockback and damage if the sourspot hits.

Overall, Roy is considered to be one of the best swordfighters in the game, and this has been reflected by his above-average representation in the metagame, which is spearheaded by players such as SALTONE, Goblin, and HIKARU.

How to unlock[edit]

Complete one of the following:

Roy must then be defeated on Castle Siege (the Ω form is used in World of Light).


Roy is a middleweight swordsman, although his main attributes deviate heavily from other fellow middleweights. He boasts very fast dashing, air, and falling speeds, but has an only slightly above-average walking speed, as well as fairly low air acceleration and jumps. Roy has an attribute unique to him that other swordfighters do not have: his inverse tipper. Contrary to Marth specifically, his Binding Blade does the most damage if attacking near the sword's hilt, although it does weak damage and knockback when otherwise tippered. While this gives Roy effectively bigger sweetspots than those who rely on a tipper to deal maximum damage, it weakens his spacing abilities despite being a swordfighter.

Roy's greatest strength is his KO potential, which is very high when compared to other middleweights, and can even be comparable to the power of some of the harder-hitting heavyweights on the roster, such as Bowser and Incineroar. In conjunction with his overall fast frame data for a swordfighter, he can inflict large amounts of damage in a short amount of time. Neutral attack can catch aggressive approaches due to its speed and deceptively large hitbox, and can efficiently set up into his more powerful normal attacks. His forward tilt, up tilt, and forward smash are all very fast startup-wise, with each being among the strongest attacks of their kind; notably, forward smash can KO under 50% with rage near the edge, even if uncharged. His up smash is an effective anti-air attack due to its quick startup, along with his sword arm gaining intangibility throughout its rather long duration.

Roy's KO potential also extends to his great air game, with quick, powerful and damaging aerials; his neutral aerial is a useful combo starter, especially when using the first hit by itself on landing, which allows him to add extra damage to his combos and even open up KO setups at high percentages. His forward aerial autocancels in a short hop and is overall very quick, allowing him to even perform a wall of pain. At high percentages, it also boasts KO potential. Back aerial has the rare and deceptive quality of turning Roy around, as well as being rather quick despite its power, KOing at around 130% from center-stage. Up aerial is Roy's fastest aerial startup-wise, and is a reliable juggling move due to its large hitbox and average knockback, and can even KO by itself at high percentages. Lastly, down aerial is a strong meteor smash when sweetspotted and boasts decent KO potential when sweetspotted on-stage.

Roy is also extremely effective at shield pressure and mix-ups. Many of his aerials and his down tilt are safe on shield against shield grabs, allowing him to pressure the opponent's shield until they choose an option to escape, which Roy can then punish. Roy's neutral attack is useful thanks to its KO confirms into his forward, back and up aerials, as well as its ability to pressure shields and to catch the enemy coming out of shield. Roy's neutral aerial is also very effective as a cross-up attack on characters who lack out of shield options that hit behind them. Up aerial can also function as a combo starter and is safe on shield, and leads into different follow-ups dependent on whether the sweetspot or the sourspot connects. Roy can also simply grab opponents for shielding against him; he has simple but efficient throw combos such as down throw into neutral aerial or up aerial depending on percent. Roy even possesses some shield break set-ups if the opponent is not careful, rewarding Roy with a Flare Blade punish.

Roy's special moveset maintains his sheer speed and KO power; Flare Blade is known for being one of the strongest single-hitting attacks in the game, with the capability to one-hit KO any fighter in the game when fully charged. Combined with its ability to be reversed and its extremely high knockback, it adds up to be a very potent edge-guarding and ledge trapping tool, and has deceptively low ending lag despite its power to avoid punishment. As a result, Roy is one of few characters who can reliably close out stocks on any shield breaks regardless of the opponents damage. Double-Edge Dance is a quick and efficient damage-racking series of high-speed sword slashes, along with being a reliable finisher at higher percentages if sweetspotted; it is fast enough for each hit to connect reliably and catch spot dodges. His main recovery move, Blazer, is an excellent out of shield option, due to gaining super armor on startup and having decent knockback growth when grounded. Lastly, his Counter has a short window of active frames compared to other counterattacks, but it makes up for being one of the strongest counters in the game thanks to its 1.35× damage multiplier.

Despite Roy's numerous strengths, he has noticeable weaknesses. His biggest flaw stems from his own inverse tipper attribute; by relying on close-quarters attacks to deal damage, it gives him below-average effective reach compared to other swordfighters due to the Binding Blade's tip dealing weak knockback and damage. Thus, Roy cannot rely on a spacing playstyle in spite of his status as a swordsman, since his sourspotted attacks are less reliable as combo starters. This forces him to get dangerously close to the opponent in order for his attacks to properly start combos and deal more damage. This is further worsened by many of his attacks having high ending lag, which makes Roy very punishable if his attacks are simply thrown out without caution. In all, he cannot perform optimally when spacing with the tip of his sword, but cannot afford to make mistakes when at close range without running the risk of massive punishment.

Lastly, Roy's offstage endurance is very poor. His fast falling speed makes him fairly susceptible to combos, and as none of his moves are generally reliable enough to consistently break combos, many characters with reliable combo moves can rack up large amounts of damage and easily force him off-stage. To add to this issue, Roy's only recovery move, Blazer, is fairly ineffective despite his impressive mobility: although it offers good protection, can be angled, and covers a decent amount of horizontal distance, it covers little vertical distance, does not sweetspot edges until the latter half of its duration, lacks the grounded version's super armor, and is predictable, leaving him prone to gimping, especially against characters with a reliable gimping projectile or counter. When coupled with his fast falling speed, he is highly susceptible to meteor smashes, and even a sufficiently strong semi-spike can launch him too far away to recover. Multi-hit moves that trade with Blazer's hitboxes can also semi spike Roy and gimp him. This causes him to have one of the worst recoveries in the game and arguably across the whole series.

Overall, Roy is an unconventional swordsman who falls under the bait-and-punish and rushdown archetypes. The objective of his playstyle is to overwhelm his enemy by closing the distance between them quickly, then to deal large amounts of damage with fast attacks without leaving Roy himself open to punishment while remaining in close-range.

Changes from Super Smash Bros. 4[edit]

Roy was infamous for being the a lower-ranked character in previous appearances, with his debut appearance in Melee being particularly egregious. Even in SSB4, he still retained a committal approach and unsafe aerials (especially compared to other fellow swordfighters), and his inverse tipper attribute hindering his spacing abilities, which collectively resulted in both his lower mid tier placement and being ranked as the lowest ranked DLC fighter. Likely owing to this, Roy has been heavily buffed overall in his transition to Ultimate, and is the only DLC fighter from SSB4 to remain mostly buffed in that transition.

Roy's most significant improvements are indirect, as he benefits noticeably from the changes to the universal gameplay mechanics in Ultimate. The improved flexibility of dash canceling and the decreased landing lag on his aerials greatly improve his combo game, aerial offense, rushdown potential, and make his KO power consistent. Complementing this, the universal mobility increase benefits Roy's core strategy of closing the distance on his opponents and landing hits with the hilt of his sword, as well as helping counterbalance his vulnerability to camping. These changes almost fully alleviate the need to approach at dangerously close ranges in order to deal optimal damage and knockback, which was his main flaw that had plagued him in previous games and was not present in his other fellow swordfighters.

Some of Roy's useful buffs are also direct. Moves like his dash attack, forward tilt, forward, back and up aerials, and Double-Edge Dance, have increased power, significantly increasing his options at higher percentages and further toning down his trouble at KOing. Furthermore, KO confirms with his neutral attack and the first hit of neutral aerial or a sourspotted up aerial have become much more consistent and reliable. A small amount of his moves have also had their hitbox placements improved, which is notable in his forward smash and Double-Edge Dance, the former of which can now hit opponents in the lower platforms of Battlefield. Double-Edge Dance has also been sped up greatly, making its hits link into each other much more consistently. His air game in general has directly improved, as forward aerial now auto-cancels in a short hop and has knockback and angle adjustments that make it better for both combos and KOs; neutral, back and up aerials are stronger (the lattermost of which can now KO reliably), and down aerial has larger sweetspots. These changes, compounded with his lower landing lag all-around, makes Roy's air game one of the most versatile and fearsome of any character.

However, Roy is not without a few nerfs, some of which are significant. His forward throw has lost its combo potential altogether, and down throw has less followups due to its increased knockback. Blazer now needs to travel half its maximum distance before it can sweetspot ledges and also deals less knockback, reducing its use as a KO option. Moreover, while these nerfs are comparatively few, Roy still has some of his flaws from past games, such as mediocre offstage survivability, a vulnerability to combos, and an ineffective spacing game.

Overall, Roy's core playstyle remains fundamentally the same as it was in SSB4, but the changes made to the game's engine and his substantial buffs now make him less polarizing and allows him to comfortably play aggressively up close, while retaining his raw power, range, and speed mostly intact. Because of this, he is considered to be much more viable than he was in any of his previous playable appearances, and is widely seen as one of the best swordfighters in the game and a very powerful character in competitive play.


  • Change As with other previous downloadable fighters in SSB4, Roy's appearance is largely unchanged. Like Marth, his design has the various shades of red on his hair, outfit, armor pieces, and cape adjusted to be more vibrant and analogous with each other, with a notably brighter hue of purple for his cape especially. His armor, belt, gloves, and boots have been given subtle detailing. His eyes are sharper, and his skin tone is slightly tanned.
  • Change Roy's sword was previously called the "Sword of Seals", a direct translation from its Japanese name, in the trophy descriptions of Melee and Smash 4, but Palutena's Guidance now refers to the weapon as the Binding Blade, matching the English localization as of Fire Emblem Heroes.
  • Change Roy has a new crouching animation, although he shifts to the previous animation when holding a small item, like in SSB4.
  • Change Roy's sweetspotted moves now use a unique heavy sword SFX, similar to Ike's sword. He shares this distinction with Marth.
  • Change Roy's cape has better physics and rigging, allowing for more fluid animations. Additionally, the logo on Roy's cape is now part of his model, rather than being a flat texture.
  • Change Like Marth, Roy is fully dubbed in English (voiced by Ray Chase) for non-Japanese versions.
    • Change Roy's side taunt has him saying "I won't lose!"
    • Change All of Roy's victory animations have been slightly altered with new camera angles. In addition, all of his victory lines have been dubbed in English, "That was a fierce battle!", "Failure is not an option!", and "Now the true battle begins!" respectively.
  • Change The Binding Blade and its sheath are no longer present in Roy's Defeated/No Contest animations.
  • Change As with all previous downloadable fighters in SSB4, Roy now has a unique Palutena's Guidance conversation.
  • Change In the Japanese language, Roy's jumping voice clip has been sped up.
  • Change Aside from when his shield breaks, Roy only vocalizes once when stunned, much like the rest of the cast.


  • Buff Like all characters, Roy's jumpsquat takes 3 frames to complete (down from 5).
  • Buff Roy walks faster (1.15 → 1.208), slightly surpassing his Melee walking speed.
  • Buff Roy runs faster (1.95 → 2.145).
    • Buff His initial dash is significantly faster (1.4 → 2.2).
  • Buff Roy's air speed is faster (1.24 → 1.302).
  • Nerf Roy's fast-falling speed is slightly slower (2.9 → 2.88).

Ground attacks[edit]

  • Neutral attack:
    • Buff The sweetspot launches at a higher angle (62° → 69°), and has more base knockback (40 → 55), but less knockback scaling (60 → 40). In combination with Roy's faster jumpsquat, this greatly improves its combo potential, even giving it a KO setup into back aerial at high percents.
  • Forward tilt:
    • Buff The sweetspot has more knockback scaling (100 → 105), improving its already outstanding KO potential.
    • Nerf The move has more ending lag (FAF 32 → 34).
  • Dash attack:
    • Buff Dash attack has less ending lag (FAF 50 → 46).
    • Buff It has gained a shieldstun multiplier of 1.25×, which combined with the increased shieldstun for ground attacks makes it safer on shield.
    • Buff The sweetspot has more knockback scaling (82 → 85).
  • Forward smash:
    • Buff The move has one frame less startup (frame 14 → 13), with its total duration reduced as well (FAF 55 → 54).
    • Change The move's hitboxes have been entirely reworked: the sweetspot is smaller (4.2u → 3.3u) and less extended horizontally (Z offset: 8.4u-5.1u → 9.1u-7.7u), the middlespot is larger (3.7u → 4.0u), and both the sourspot and middlespot have horizontally extended hitboxes with slightly altered placements, which fully cover the Binding Blade's trail (middlespot X/Y/Z offset: 0u/0u/1.5u → 2u-14u/1u/1.5u, sourspot X/Y/Z offset: 0u/0u/7.2u → 2u-9.5u/1u/7.5u).
      • Buff These changes significantly increase the move's vertical coverage, allowing it to hit opponents on low platforms above Roy, such as the ones in Battlefield.
      • Nerf However, these changes also make the sweetspot harder to land due to its reduced size and less favorable offset, with the middlespot being easier to land due to having the largest hitbox. The sourspot's higher offset also means it no longer matches the Binding Blade's entire length.
    • Change Both the sweetspot and middlespot have different knockback values (70 base/70 scaling → 60/75). This worsens their KO power at the edge, especially with rage, but improves it anywhere else without the need for rage.
  • Up smash:
    • Buff The clean first hit launches opponents more towards Roy (101°/116° → 118°/127°), whereas the late first hit and second to four hits have lower set knockback (95/60 → 85/55), allowing them to connect more reliably.
    • Buff The late first hit and second to fourth hits have received a -100% trip chance, preventing the move from tripping opponents on platforms and missing its last hit due to the trip's intangibility.
    • Change The clean first hit has lower SDI multipliers (1× → 0×/0.5×), but the late first hit and second to fourth hits have become vulnerable to SDI (0× → 0.3×).
  • Down smash:
    • Buff The back hit's sourspot is placed farther horizontally (X offset: 0u → -1.6u) and closer to the Binding Blade's tip, increasing its range.
    • Nerf The back hit's sweetspot stretches a shorter distance vertically and horizontally (Y/Z offset: 4.1u-5.5u/-13u - -7.5u → 4.1u-4.5u/-11u - -8u). This moves the sweetspot farther from the Binding Blade's hilt and closer to Roy's arm, making it harder to land.

Aerial attacks[edit]

  • Buff All aerials have less landing lag (11 frames → 9 (neutral), 13 → 8 (forward), 16 → 10 (back), 14 → 8 (up), 23 → 14 (down)).
  • Neutral aerial:
    • Buff The first hit has more base knockback (30 → 32), while the second hit's sweetspot has more knockback scaling (100 → 105). This improves the move's KO potential, without worsening its combo potential due to its lower landing lag.
    • Change The second hit uses weight-independent knockback, causing it to deal less knockback to lighter targets and more knockback to heavier ones. This worsens the move's KO potential but allows it to combo for longer in the former case, and vice versa in the latter case.
  • Forward aerial:
    • Buff Forward aerial auto-cancels earlier (frame 33 → 31), allowing it to auto-cancel if performed at the start of a short hop.
    • Buff It launches at a slightly higher angle (361° → 42°), and its sweetspot has more knockback scaling (80 → 83), improving its ability to start combos at low percents and KO at high percents.
  • Back aerial:
    • Buff The sweetspot deals more knockback (30 base/100 scaling → 35/107), allowing it to KO at around 125% from the center of Final Destination.
  • Up aerial:
    • Buff The sweetspot has much more knockback scaling (80 → 105), making the move more potent for juggling and granting it KO potential at realistic percents, starting at around 160% from ground level (compared to previously being unable to KO until around 220%).
  • Down aerial:
    • Buff Down aerial auto-cancels earlier (frame 55 → 52), matching its interruptibility.
    • Buff The sweetspot has larger hitboxes (3.6u/3.6u → 4.4u/4.4u).
    • Change It has a slightly altered animation, setting the Binding Blade ablaze. Accordingly, it uses a flame effect and SFX rather than slash ones.
      • Change Due to having flame properties, it now sets off explosive items like Link's Remote Bomb.
      • Nerf Additionally, it can no longer damage Olimar's Red Pikmin.

Throws and other attacks[edit]

  • Grabs:
    • Nerf All grabs have more ending lag (FAF 30 → 37 (standing), 37 → 45 (dash), 35 → 40 (pivot)).
    • Nerf Dash and pivot grab have more startup (frame 8 → 10 (dash), 9 → 11 (pivot)).
    • Nerf Pivot grab has less horizontal range (Z2 offset: -13.4u → -12.8u).
    • Change Dash grab has a larger hitbox against grounded opponents (2.6u → 3u) and is placed slightly higher (Y offset: 7u → 7.25u), but doesn't reach as far horizontally (Z2 offset: 9.3u → 9.1u).
  • Pummel:
    • Nerf Pummel deals less damage (2% → 1.3%).
    • Change It deals more hitlag (4 frames → 14), but has much less startup (frame 6 → 1) and ending lag (FAF 16 → 7).
  • Forward throw:
    • Change Roy has a new forward throw: an elbow strike to the opponent's chest.
    • Nerf Due to the new knockback speed-up effect and Double-Edge Dance's slower startup, it has lost almost all of its combo potential, to the point where its only true followup is instant dash attack at extremely low percentages against a small amount of characters.
  • Down throw:
    • Buff Down throw has one frame less ending lag (FAF 43 → 42), improving its combo potential at low percents in combination with Roy's faster jumpsquat.
    • Nerf It has much more knockback scaling (60 → 90), worsening its combo potential at mid to high percents.
  • Edge attack:
    • Buff Edge attack deals more damage (8% → 10%).

Special moves[edit]

  • Flare Blade:
    • Buff Flare Blade has less startup (frame 23 → 21).
      • Nerf However, its total duration remains unchanged, increasing its ending lag.
    • Buff It can be reversed during the charge, allowing Roy to catch opponents behind him.
    • Change The charging sound no longer changes in pitch if Roy is giant or tiny.
    • Change A fully charged Flare Blade triggers a Special Zoom on hit.
  • Double-Edge Dance:
    • Buff As with Dancing Blade, Double-Edge Dance transitions significantly faster into each hit. It can also now be buffered and is much harder to escape from.
    • Buff Double-Edge Dance's last forward hit has significantly larger hitboxes (5.175u/4.6u/4.025u → 7.0u/8.0u/7.0u).
    • Buff Double-Edge Dance's last forward hit has significantly increased knockback (60 base/130 scaling → 80/123), which when combined with the move's other changes, now make it a viable KO option.
    • Nerf Double-Edge Dance's first hit has increased startup (frame 6 → 9).
    • Nerf Double-Edge Dance's last forward hit has increased ending lag (FAF 56 → 59).
    • Change Roy uses a single voice clip when performing down-inputted fourth swing rather than three. The voice clip itself is the same one used whenever he performs his down aerial.
  • Blazer:
    • Nerf Blazer sweetspots edges later (frame 15 → 24), no longer doing so before the last hit comes out.
    • Change The last hit has more base knockback (40 → 75), but less knockback scaling (130 → 93). This makes it safe on hit at low percents, but also weakens its KO potential, especially at farther distances from the top blast line.
  • Counter:
    • Buff Counter has a longer counter window (frames 8-27 → 8-29).
    • Buff The counter grants intangibility earlier (frame 8 → 7).
    • Buff It deals more knockback, with the sourspot incurring a less significant knockback loss over the sweetspot (35 base/100/70 scaling → 60/50 base/90/80 scaling).
    • Buff The counterbox is bigger (9.2u → 9.7u). It's also positioned lower down (Y offset: 9.3 → 8.2), now fully covering below Roy.
    • Nerf It has more ending lag on both the counter (FAF 60 → 68) and the attack (FAF 37 → 41).
    • Nerf Its base damage is lower (9% → 8%).
    • Nerf It has higher hitlag multipliers (1.7×/1× → 1.9×/1.2×), making it easier to DI.
    • Change Along with an attack grunt, two of Roy's lines during a successful counterattack are dubbed, with him saying either "Now!" or "Gotcha!".
    • Change If a powerful enough attack is countered, the noise from Critical Hit will play if the counterattack successfully lands.
  • Critical Hit:
    • Nerf Critical Hit's finishing hit has less knockback scaling (55 → 47), worsening its already below average power.
    • Change It causes a flaming background to appear once the main hit is unleashed.
    • Change Roy removes the Binding Blade from its sheath once he has finished sheathing it.

Update history[edit]

Roy was buffed slightly via the game updates. Down aerial auto-cancels 3 frames earlier thanks to update 2.0.0. Update 3.0.0 made the multiple hits for Blazer connect more reliably, and gave dash grab more range. Roy's approach and defense also indirectly benefit from the universal nerf of projectiles. Update 3.1.0 and 7.0.0 both buffed Roy's up smash: the former improved the consistency of the multi-hits and the latter gave the move a -100% trip chance, making it so opponents no longer trip out of the move before the final hit can land.

Overall, Roy fares mildly better than he did at the launch of Ultimate.

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate 2.0.0

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate 3.0.0

  • Change Roy's character model has been adjusted.
  • Buff The grounded-only grabbox of dash grab was made bigger (2.6u → 3.0u) and placed higher (Y offsets: 7.0 → 7.25). This notably prevents it from missing a shielding R.O.B..
  • Buff Blazer's hits connect more reliably (Hits 2-4 FKB: 120 → 85).

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate 3.1.0

  • Buff Up smash's hits connect more reliably.

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate 7.0.0

  • Buff Up smash has received a -100% trip chance, preventing it from tripping opponents on platforms and missing its last hit due to the trip's intangibility.


  • For simplicity if, for example, Roy's blade does 6% while the tip does 4%, and the attack has no other hitboxes, it is written as 6%/4%.

For a gallery of Roy's hitboxes, see here.

Note: All numbers are listed as base damage, without the 1v1 multiplier.

  Name Damage Description
Neutral attack Slash (リフトスラッシュ, Lift Slash) 7.5%/4.8% A reverse-gripped upward slash. A great combo starter, due to launching at a rather high angle and having low knockback and ending lag. It can easily start combos into a grab, tilts, aerials, Double-Edge Dance or Blazer. In particular, it is notoriously effective at comboing into a reverse aerial rush back aerial for a highly potent KO confirm. It is widely considered to be one of the best neutral attacks in the game thanks to its great combo ability and relatively low risk.
Forward tilt Sharp Edge (オーバーバッシュ, Over Bash) 12.5% (sweetspot), 9% (near), 8% (far) A reverse-gripped downward slash. Comes out on frame 8 with somewhat low ending lag. Very powerful for a tilt considering its speed, being capable of KOing at under 130% from center-stage when sweetspotted. Overall, it is the second strongest forward tilt in the game, narrowly beating Ike's and only losing slightly to Incineroar's.
Up tilt Anti-Air Slash (アンチエアスラッシュ) 12%/7% A reversed gripped overhead arcing slash. Like forward tilt, it has remarkably good speed and power when sweetspotted, capable KOing at around 120%. However, the ending lag is quite high, making whiffs punishable.
Down tilt Low Stab (ロースラスト), Low Thrust) 11%/6.5% A kneeling thrust. Can set up a tech-chase due to launching at a semi-spike angle. Very safe on shield (-3 when sweetspotted) thanks to its good damage and very low ending lag.
Dash attack Raid Down (レイドダウン) 13%/9% An inward horizontal slash across the ground. Very strong for a dash attack, KOing at around 110% near the ledge. However, it has noticeable startup and high ending lag, which makes it very unsafe on shield.
Forward smash Power Slash (パワー スマッシュ) 20% (close), 17% (mid), 12% (far) Rotates his body to perform a lunging, two-handed downward slash. Despite coming out rather quickly (frame 13), it has extremely high damage and knockback and is one of the strongest forward smashes in the game when sweetspotted, capable of KOing as low as 40% with max rage. However, it has high ending lag and a short duration. It is based on his regular attack as a Great Lord in Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade.
Up smash Flame Sword (フレイムソード) 1% (hit 1 early), 2% (hit 1 late, hits 2-4), 10% (hit 5) An upward thrust, which ignites the Binding Blade's tip and concludes with a small explosion. A good anti-air attack as Roy's sword arm is granted intangibility throughout the attack, though mediocre for ground combat due to it having small horizontal hitboxes. Has enough power to KO at around 100% uncharged.
Down smash Whirlwind (ワールウインド) 15%/10% (front hit), 17%/11% (back hit) A kneeling outward slash in front of himself and then behind himself. Roy's fastest smash attack when it comes to startup, but has the highest ending lag of the three. The back hit is stronger than the front hit. The front and back hits KO at around 120% and 100% near the ledge, respectively.
Neutral aerial Double Slash (ダブルスラッシュ) 6%/4% (hit 1), 8.5%/5% (hit 2), An inward slash followed by a spinning, outward slash. Deals decent damage and is a useful combo extender, and is Roy's main aerial approach tool due to its high amount of active frames. The first hit can start guaranteed combos, though it can be difficult to setup due to how fast it ends. Interestingly, it is set apart from identical neutral aerials (including Chrom's in that the second hit possesses weight-independent knockback, KOing all characters at the same percentages regardless of their weight.
Forward aerial Flag Cut (フラッグカット) 11%/7% A downward slash. It comes out on frame 10 with the lowest amount of ending lag of Roy's aerials, auto-cancels from a short hop, and has KO potential at high percentages. It can also be used in quick succession due to its low ending lag, making it possible to perform a wall of pain.
Back aerial About Face (アッパースイング, Upper Swing) 12%/9% Rotates his body to perform an upward slash. Interestingly, it turns Roy around completely, similarly to Marth and Jigglypuff's back aerials. Has great KO potential at high percentages and is also a devastating edgeguarding tool.
Up aerial Luna Slash (ルナスラッシュ) 9%/6% A backflipping, upward arcing slash. Useful for juggling, and the sweetspot can even KO at very high percentages. The sourspot can lead into other aerials while falling.
Down aerial Half Moon (メテオドロップ, Meteor Drop) 15%/10% A two-handed, downward slash between his legs, similarly to Ike's down aerial. Has the capability to meteor smash when sweetspotted, though it can be very difficult to aim due to its slim hitbox. It's also risky to use offstage due to Roy's fast falling speed and poor recovery, possibly causing a self-destruct. This move has a flame effect.
Grab Grab (つかみ) Reaches out with his free hand.
Pummel Grab Kneebutt (つかみニーバット) 1.3% A knee strike. A fairly fast pummel.
Forward throw Elbowbutt (エルボーバット) 5% An elbow strike with his sword arm. Has very high base knockback, making it mainly used for sending opponents offstage.
Back throw Leg Hooker (レッグフッカー) 5% Tosses the opponent behind himself. Has extremely low knockback, making it unsafe at lower percents, but it can set up a tech-chase near platforms at higher percentages.
Up throw Casting (キャスティング) 6% Heaves the opponent upward with his free hand. Roy's only throw with KO potential, starting around 170%. Can allow up aerial chains at low to mid percents.
Down throw Slam (グラブドロップ, Grab Drop) 5% A one-armed body slam. Roy's only combo throw and is very reliable due to the amount of followups it can potentially set up into, though, it has very low hitstun. Can follow up into neutral and up aerial at low percents depending on the opponent's DI.
Floor attack (front)   7% Gets up while slashing to the left and then to the right.
Floor attack (back)   7% Gets into a kneeling position and then slices around himself as he gets up.
Floor attack (trip)   5% Hops briskly to his feet to perform a thrust to the left and a slash to the right.
Edge attack   8% Performs an outward slash while climbing up.
Neutral special Flare Blade 6%-35%, 36%-50% (fully charged), 10% recoil (fully charged) Rears back and ignites the Binding Blade before performing a lunging, two-handed downward slash that generates an explosion. Roy can turn while charging the move. Functions similarly to Eruption, as it can be charged before unleashing the explosion, with the explosion's size growing as it charges. It has very high knockback growth even while uncharged, and the ability to quickly increase its damage output via charging. When fully charged, it will OHKO every character in the game, with the exception of Shulk in the Shield Monado Art. A fully charged Flare Blade is also capable of instantaneously breaking a full shield, similar to a fully charged Shield Breaker. It also has deceptively low ending lag that allows it to be potentially safe on shield and can be used to bait approaches.
Side special Double-Edge Dance Varies A sequence of sword slashes with several variations based on directional input. There are four slashes total, with each capable of being altered in direction, allowing for eighteen total possible combinations. Standard strikes are trailed red, high strikes are trailed blue, and low strikes are trailed green. Unlike Dancing Blade and Chrom's Double-Edge Dance, the last hit of each variation deals flame damage because of the Binding Blade igniting. The lower-held green strikes deal a fairly large amount of damage and is useful for damaging shields, the upward blue variant is useful for setting up juggle situations, while the final forward-held hit has surprisingly high KO potential when sweetspotted, being even stronger than Limit Cross Slash, and is able to KO opponents near the ledge at lower than 80%.
Up special Blazer 5.5% (grounded hit 1), 4.5% (aerial hit 1), 1.1% (grounded hits 2-4), 1% (aerial hits 2-4), 8% (grounded hit 5), 6% (aerial hit 5) A jumping reverse gripped slash, which ignites the Binding Blade. Hits multiple times and can be angled diagonally, though this causes the slash to cover less vertical distance. The grounded version deals more damage and knockback, and has brief super armor before Roy leaves the ground, making it Roy's best option out of shield. Roy cannot sweetspot ledges with the move unless he has traveled half of Blazer's maximum distance.
Down special Counter 1.35× (minimum 9%) Parries and then counterattacks against any incoming attacks with an outward slash that ignites the Binding Blade. It has a 1.35× damage multiplier, the third-highest of any counterattack in the game by default, with Counter Throw and Gut Check tied for second (1.5×), Tetrakarn in first (1.6×), and Vision surpassing it while the Buster Monado Art is active.
Final Smash Critical Hit 1% (hits 1-10), 35% (hit 11) Swings the Binding Blade in a circular motion, which ignites its blade, before performing a two-handed, downward slash that generates a powerful explosion. Unlike Marth and Lucina's Critical Hit, Roy's is not a one-hit KO unless performed at the ledge. The circular swing can hit up to four times from the front, though it can hit up to ten times if performed on an opponent behind Roy. It is based on the Binding Blade's ranged attack in The Binding Blade.
Double-Edge Dance
Hit Damage Description
First Hit (Neutral) 3%/2% Does an outward slash. Deals very little knockback to combo into its other hits. Can jab lock. The tipper lifts opponents off the ground slightly, making it combo into the second hit more consistently. Has less ending lag in the air.
Second Hit (Up) 3%/2% An upwards lifting slash. Has greater vertical reach than the first hit or the second neutral hit. Lifts opponents slightly off the ground, with the tipper hit pulling them in slightly.
Second Hit (Neutral) 3%/2% Does an inward slash. Has a shorter hitbox than the first hit, which can lead to it sometimes missing if the first hit is landed from too far away. Deals very little knockback in order to connect more consistently. Can jab lock.
Third Hit (Up) 4%/3% Does an upwards slash while turning clockwise. Launches opponents slightly up and away, leading into the upward finisher. Combo's well into the last hit forward.
Third Hit (Neutral) 4%/3% Takes a step forward and does a leaning outward slash.
Third Hit (Down) 4%/3% Leans in and does a horizontal slash low to the ground. Good for not getting punished, as Roy steps back after he swings.
Fourth Hit (Up) 7%/5% Twirls counterclockwise and does an flaming upward slash. Launches opponents up, making it useful for starting juggling strings. Has the least ending lag of the three finishers. Fairly low knockback. Has greater vertical reach than any other hit of the move.
Fourth Hit (Neutral) 6%/4% Turns counterclockwise, steps forward, and does powerful flaming vertical slash downward. This is the strongest finisher in regards to knockback. The hilt by itself is incredibly powerful, KOing middleweights at the ledge around 60% (or even lower with rage), but the hit is much weaker when tippered, only beginning to KO around 140%.
Fourth Hit (Down) 2% (hit 1-4), 5/3% (hit 5) Does a flurry of five lower stabs. Deals the most damage of the three finishers, wearing down shields well, and can shield poke low shields. Has the highest ending lag and the lowest knockback of the three finishers, mainly should be used as a damage racking option.

Announcer call[edit]

Sound.png This article could use additional or higher-quality audio files.
The editor who added this tag suggests: Needs announcer calls from other languages.
If you have a good audio file for this article, upload it here.

On-screen appearance[edit]

  • Warps onto the stage using warp magic while crouching, with the Binding Blade stuck in the ground when he appears. He then pulls it out with a flourish before assuming his idle stance.


  • Up taunt: Triumphantly holds the Binding Blade overhead.
  • Side taunt: Winds back before striking a pose while holding the Binding Blade in a reverse grip while saying "I won't lose!" (僕 は 負けない!, "I won't lose!")
  • Down taunt: Kneels and twirls the Binding Blade behind himself, hollering as he does so.

Idle poses[edit]

  • Pumps his fist while smiling.
  • Rubs the edge of the Binding Blade's blade.

Crowd cheer[edit]

Cheer (English) Cheer (Japanese/Chinese) Cheer (Italian) Cheer (Dutch) Cheer (French)
Cheer Custom combination of the flags of Canada, the USA, and Mexico.

Source, tweaked to fix rendering issues
Custom combination of the flags of Canada, the USA, and Mexico.

Source, tweaked to fix rendering issues
Description Roy's our boy! Roy! Roy! Roy! Ro - y! Roy! Roy! *claps 2 times* Roy! Roy! Allez Roy!
Cheer (German) Cheer (Spanish) Cheer (Russian) Cheer (Korean)
Description Roy! *claps 2 times* Roy! Roy! Roy Roy Roy! Roy! Roy! *claps 3 times* Ro - y! *claps 3 times*

Victory poses[edit]

  • Left: Swipes his sword once over his shoulder, then swipes it down and behind him while facing left, saying "Now, the true battle begins..." ("真の戦いは、これからだ", The true fight is after this.). Afterwards, the camera zooms in on his face, focusing on his eyes.
  • Up: Spins the Binding Blade one and a half times and then sheaths it in a pose similar to his artwork from previous games, saying "That was a fierce battle." ("苦しい戦いだった", It was a difficult fight.).
  • Right: Flourishes his sword and poses with it by his side, saying "Failure is not an option!" ("守るべきもののために、負けられない!", For those whom I must protect, I will not lose!) before the camera dramatically zooms in on Roy's face.
An orchestral, sped-up cover of several bars of the Fire Emblem Theme, the title theme for the original Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light, which has since become the main theme of the series and appeared in every game.

In competitive play[edit]

Tier placement and history[edit]

When Ultimate released, Roy looked promising in the meta due to the universal decreased landing lag on aerials and ability to use tilts out of a dash, which drastically fixed one of his biggest weaknesses. Along with his excellent mobility and some of the strongest KO power in the game, many professionals believed that Roy could potentially be a top-tier character. However, people also noticed that his Echo Fighter, Chrom, despite having less power and a significantly worse recovery than Roy, was more consistent due to his lack of sourspots, making him better at spacing than Roy. Chrom also had a notorious sacrificial KO move from his forward aerial to Soaring Slash. Although the latter was eventually removed, Chrom was still widely agreed to be one of the best characters in the game and was considered to be better than Roy in the early metagame. Despite this, Roy has achieved many noteworthy results thanks to players such as Goblin and Flow, and is still thought to be significantly improved from Smash 4, with many players ranking him as a high-tier or even top-tier character.

Roy's reputation would only improve from here on out, especially during and after the end of the online metagame. SALTONE, a rising star prior to the pandemic, made waves during the online metagame and ultimately placed 1st on the Wi-Fi Warrior Rank v5. He maintained this momentum after offline play returned, and consistently placed top 8 at majors. Other Roy players such as Goblin and HIKARU would also see strong results during this period, leading to an increase in Roy's representation, especially in the United States: Roy had the second-highest character usage by the end of 2021,[1] and continues to be a top 10 character representation-wise in the following year.[2] With Chrom's decline as a result to a shrinking playerbase, many players such as Dabuz and Tweek consider Roy to be one of the best, if not the best, Fire Emblem characters in the game, and the character is widely accepted to be a top-tier, ranking 8th on the current tier list.

Most historically significant players[edit]

See also: Category:Roy players (SSBU)

Classic Mode: A Journey of Swords[edit]

Roy's congratulations screen.

Roy's opponents consist of entirely sword-fighters, with the exception of the final round.

Round Opponent Stage Music Notes
1 LucinaHeadSSBU.png Lucina, ChromHeadSSBU.png Chrom, and IkeHeadSSBU.png Ike Castle Siege Beyond Distant Skies - Roy's Departure Free-for-All
2 MetaKnightHeadSSBU.png Meta Knight Halberd Meta Knight's Revenge
3 LinkHeadGreenSSBU.png Link Skyloft Ballad of the Goddess (Original)
4 ShulkHeadSSBU.png Shulk Gaur Plain You Will Know Our Names
5 CloudHeadSSBU.png Cloud Midgar Fight On!
6 MarthHeadSSBU.png Marth and CorrinHeadSSBU.pngCorrinHeadFemaleSSBU.png Corrin (x2) Coliseum Winning Road - Roy's Hope Free-for-All
Bonus Stage
Final Master Hand Final Destination Master Hand (Less than 7.0 intensity)
Master Hand / Crazy Hand (Intensity 7.0 or higher)
On intensity 7.0 and higher, Crazy Hand fights alongside Master Hand.

Credits roll after completing Classic Mode. Completing it as Roy has Winning Road - Roy's Hope accompany the credits.

Role in World of Light[edit]

Roy's location in World of Light.
Finding Roy in World of Light

Although Roy does not appear in the World of Light opening cutscene, he was vaporized and later imprisoned alongside the rest of the fighters (sans Kirby) when Galeem unleashed his beams of light.

Roy appears in The Final Battle as one of the last fighters imprisoned by Galeem. He is one of the few obligatory unlocks. Defeating him leads to a fight with Master Hand and the subsequent reveal of Bayonetta's location.

Fighter Battle[edit]

No. Image Name Type Power Stage Music
Roy SSBU.png
12,500 Castle Siege (Ω form) Beyond Distant Skies - Roy's Departure


Roy's fighter spirit can be obtained by completing Classic Mode. It is also available periodically for purchase in the shop for 300 Gold, but only after Roy has been unlocked. Unlocking Roy in World of Light allows the player to preview the spirit below in the Spirit List under the name "???". As a fighter spirit, it cannot be used in Spirit Battles and is purely aesthetic. His fighter spirit has an alternate version that replaces it with his artwork in Ultimate.

In Spirit Battles[edit]

As the main opponent[edit]

Spirit Battle parameters Inspiration
No. Image Name Series Enemy Fighter(s) Type Power Stage Rules Conditions Music Character
SSBU spirit Leif (Fire Emblem).png
Leif (Fire Emblem) Fire Emblem Series Roy RoyHeadPinkSSBU.png
9,300 Castle Siege N/A •The enemy can unleash powerful critical hits at random
•The enemy heals over time
Fire Emblem Theme
SSBU spirit Eliwood.png
Eliwood Fire Emblem Series Roy RoyHeadCyanSSBU.png
9,800 Castle Siege (Battlefield form) •Easy to Launch
•Hazard: Lava Floor
•The floor is lava
•All fighters are easy to launch after a little while
•The enemy's explosion and fire attacks have increased power
Winning Road - Roy's Hope
SSBU spirit Raven.png
Raven Fire Emblem Series Roy RoyHeadPurpleSSBU.png
1,700 Coliseum •Defense ↓
•Attack Power ↑
•All fighters have reduced defense
•All fighters have increased attack power
Attack - Fire Emblem
from the game's files
Garet Golden Sun Series Roy RoyHeadYellowSSBU.png
2,500 Temple (Battlefield form) •Hazard: Lava Floor •The floor is lava
•The enemy starts the battle with a Fire Flower
Battle Scene / Final Boss - Golden Sun
SSBU spirit Sagi.png
Sagi Baten Kaitos Series Roy RoyHeadVioletSSBU.png
Corrin CorrinHeadRedSSBU.png
1,600 Gaur Plain (Battlefield form) •Item: Timer •Reinforcements will appear during the battle
•The enemy is easily distracted by items
The Valedictory Elegy
Welt Soma Bringer Roy RoyHeadRedSSBU.png (160 HP)
3,600 Gaur Plain (Battlefield form) •Defense ↓ •You have reduced defense
Stamina battle
Attack - Soma Bringer
SSBU spirit Duran & Angela.png
Duran & Angela Mana Series Roy RoyHeadGreenSSBU.png
Zelda ZeldaHeadRedSSBU.png
•Tiny Bunny Kirby KirbyHeadYellowSSBU.png×2
9,200 Gaur Plain (Ω form) •Item: Ramblin' Evil Mushroom •Reinforcements will appear after an enemy is KO'd Filled with Hope Duran
SSBU spirit Axel.png
Axel Kingdom Hearts Series Roy RoyHeadPurpleSSBU.png (140 HP)
4,300 Kalos Pokémon League (Fire chamber transition) N/A Stamina battle
•Fire and explosion attacks aren't as effective against the enemy
The enemy starts the battle with a Hothead
Destiny's Force

As a minion[edit]

Spirit Battle parameters Inspiration
No. Image Name Series Enemy Fighter(s) Type Power Stage Rules Conditions Music Character
SSBU spirit Lilina.png
Lilina Fire Emblem Series Palutena PalutenaHeadRedSSBU.png
Roy RoyHeadCyanSSBU.png
3,500 Gaur Plain (Battlefield form) N/A •The enemy's explosion and fire attacks have increased power
•The enemy favors side specials
•Reinforcements will appear during the battle
Beyond Distant Skies - Roy's Departure Roy
SSBU spirit Ninian.png
Ninian Fire Emblem Series Palutena PalutenaHeadGreenSSBU.png
Roy RoyHeadGreenSSBU.png
3,400 Castle Siege (Battlefield form) N/A •Defeat the main fighter to win
•The enemy can use their Final Smash twice in a row
•The enemy's FS Meter charges quickly
Winning Road - Roy's Hope Nils
from the game files
Isaac Golden Sun Series Mii Swordfighter MiiSwordfighterHeadSSBU.png (Moveset 1222, Isaac Wig, Isaac's Outfit, High Voice Type 1)
Palutena PalutenaHeadCyanSSBU.png
Robin RobinHeadGreenSSBU.png
Roy RoyHeadYellowSSBU.png
8,900 Wuhu Island (Swaying Bridge) •Assist Trophy Enemies (Isaac) •The enemy's magic attacks have increased power
•Hostile assist trophies will appear
•Reinforcements will appear during the battle
Battle Scene / Final Boss - Golden Sun Garet

Conditions in italic are not listed on the Spirit Battle preview screen.

Alternate costumes[edit]

Roy Palette (SSBU).png
RoyHeadSSBU.png RoyHeadRedSSBU.png RoyHeadGreenSSBU.png RoyHeadVioletSSBU.png RoyHeadCyanSSBU.png RoyHeadPurpleSSBU.png RoyHeadPinkSSBU.png RoyHeadYellowSSBU.png


Fighter Showcase Video[edit]


  • Roy's pose in his official artwork resembles his forward tilt.
    • Interestingly, Roy also performs his forward tilt in his splash art for Super Smash Bros. 4.
  • Roy is the first fighter to be introduced as a clone and later have an Echo Fighter of their own in a later installment.
  • Roy is the only fighter with an Echo Fighter to not be in the same Classic Mode unlock tree as their echo; he is in Mario's character tree, while his echo, Chrom, is in Yoshi's unlock tree.
    • Additionally, as a semi-clone of Marth, Roy is the only character whose moveset is derived from him to not appear in Yoshi's unlock tree, as Lucina is also located there. Ganondorf also holds a similar distinction.
  • Despite also wielding a sword, Robin, Young Link, Toon Link, and Mii Swordfighter do not appear in Roy's Classic Mode route.
    • Additionally, Ganon does not appear as the boss in Roy's Classic Mode route despite also holding swords.
  • Like in SSB4, Roy will revert to Marth's idle animation while holding a small throwable item, although now he also transitions to his SSB4 crouching animation.
  • In Roy's character showcase video, he is seen with a new dashing animation, but in the final build of the game, he reuses his dashing animation from SSB4.
  • Roy's English star KO voice clip, much like Zelda's in Melee, is infamous among the game's fanbase for being perceived as blood-curdling and realistic, to the point that his voice actor, Ray Chase, acknowledged this perception on Twitter.
  • Whenever Roy frees a spirit from its puppet fighter after winning a spirit battle on the Spirit Board or fires a small shooting item such as a Ray Gun from the ground, his sheath appears with his sword inside on the left side of his belt. This is possibly a processing oversight when copying Marth's animation into Roy.
    • While this also applies to Marth, Lucina, and Chrom, their sheaths won't disappear due to already being visible in battle.
    • This also marks the second time where Roy's sheath is positioned on his side instead of on his back with the first time being his clapping animation from SSB4.
  • Roy is the only male character unlocked in The Final Battle realm in World of Light.
    • Additionally, since Roy is found in The Final Battle, he is the only character with an Echo Fighter based on them who cannot be found in The Light Realm, as Samus, Peach, Marth, Pit, Ryu, and Simon can all be found in it, while all Echo Fighters (except Dark Samus) can be found in The Dark Realm.
    • This also means that Roy is the only character with an Echo Fighter that can be unlocked in World of Light first, with Chrom being found in the Sacred Land sub-world of The Dark Realm.
    • Roy is the only base character in World of Light that has a higher "power level" than his Echo Fighter. Roy has a power level of 12,500, matching the remaining fighters in The Final Battle area, while Chrom's power level is 10,600, being on a similar level as most of the fighters trapped within The Dark Realm.
  • Strangely enough, Roy's neutral aerial uses weight-independent knockback on its second hit, causing it to KO all characters at the same percentage[3] regardless of their weight. This is likely an oversight, as the neutral aerials of Marth and Lucina, as well as Roy's Echo Fighter Chrom, have weight-independent knockback on the first hit instead to link more consistently into the second hit, which deals normal knockback affected by weight.
  • Echo Fighters notwithstanding, Roy is erroneously misplaced on the back of the NTSC physical case of Ultimate, where every character is meant to be displayed in order of their announcement to the series. This also applies to Luigi, Zelda, Ike, Toon Link, Inkling, Ridley, Palutena, Corrin, and Cloud. In Roy's case, he is positioned just before Diddy Kong, which makes him the only character with an Echo Fighter to not be placed next to them.
  • On the Sound Test, Roy's voice clips are ordered differently from other non-DLC characters. Normally, blast KO clips are listed after heavy knockback clips, special moves and Final Smash clips are listed in between normal attack clips and edge hanging clip, and the voice lines for victory poses is listed after taunt lines; in Roy's case, these are grouped together after his voice clip while carrying a heavy item in that order.
    • The order of all of Roy's voice clips closely matches the abbreviations of their internal codenames with the only exceptions being the voice clips of his special moves (which go by the order of neutral, up, and down special move instead of down, neutral, and up) and Final Smash (which is placed between his special moves and victory lines instead of between his heavy knockback and stunned voice clips). Pikachu shares a similar distinction in its section on the Sound Test.
  • In World of Light, Roy is one of the few fighters who is not affiliated with Dharkon in any way, as all of his encounters as himself or as a puppet fighter are all in association with Galeem. Toon Link, Ness, Olimar, Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Mii Gunner, and Pokémon Trainer all share this distinction as well.