Take your discussion to the article's talk page instead. 18:01, 10 September 2018 (EDT)
- Knock it off. I saw you doing it again while also coming dangerously close to making assumptions of bad faith. MM3 is right, what you are trying to add contains speculative info. Disagree with that? Take it up on the talk page before you do any further editing there. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 17:49, 11 September 2018 (EDT)
ZSS and Samus as separate characters
While ZSS and Samus have separate awakening battles in WoL, there is nothing suggesting that they are outright separate entities, since gameplay and story segregation is a thing (same for Mario and Doc). I feel that it's probably just best to state factual information - that they have separate awakening battles, without any subjective info as to whether they are separate characters or not. There is no rule stating that separate awakening battle = separate individual. I took it up on the article's talk page.--Darthrai (talk) 13:29, 17 December 2018 (EST)
- Only in Brawl were Samus and ZSS the exact same being. This stopped after SSB4 separated the two characters, and Ultimate continues to treat them as fully separate characters since they have their own character numbers, are highly separated from each other in the character selection screen in addition to not only appearing in different places in the mural, but also in "The Ultimate Showdown" commercial as well, so I believe that they are separate characters in the World of Light Adventure Mode. There's nothing suggesting that they are the same character in the game aside from Ridley's reveal trailer and Zero Suit Samus's new Final Smash. Zakawer2 (talk) 16:01, 17 December 2018 (EST)
- Yeah, but can you please place any and all clone-related articles in Ultimate (all Echo Fighters in Ultimate as well as Dr. Mario, Young Link and Pichu's SSBU articles) as well as the clone article under permanent semi-protection? Zakawer2 (talk) 12:43, 26 December 2018 (EST)
Reminding you of this. Your messages will do nothing at all to resolve the situation and may only escalate it. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 17:30, 27 December 2018 (EST)
Regarding this edit, in what way is Dr. Mario a full clone? Many of his attributes are different from Mario's, and his down special and down aerial are different, not to mention the MegaVitamins and the different properties of just about every other move. It'd be more accurate to say he's a semi-clone than a full clone.
I suppose you could say Chrom would also fall under this, due to his up special being different from Roy's. You could also say there's no such thing as a "full clone", as even the closest full Echoes fighters (Daisy and Richter) have a few differences. Dr. Mario is more similar to Isabelle than anyone else in terms of Echo status. Alex95 (talk) 18:17, 28 January 2019 (EST)
- All of Dr. Mario's non-attack animations except for his on-screen appearance, idle animation, idle poses, taunts, victory poses and defeated/No Contest animation are identical to Mario's, as are his animations for virtually every single attack except for his down special, down aerial, back throw and side special (his side special is still a cloned move, but has a different animation now). Additionally, his size, proportions, facial expressions and voice clips are identical to Mario's as well, in addition to his weight, falling speed, fast falling speed, gravity, initial dash speed and frame data for most moves. That is enough to warrant calling him a full clone, and is also enough to consider him an Echo Fighter (although he does not have the label) as well.
- Isabelle, on the other hand, has different proportions and completely different non-attack animations from Villager, and even her cloned moves have different animations. While her traction is the same, all other attributes are different and she cannot wall jump either. Isabelle also has a completely different neutral attack, up tilt, neutral aerial, up smash, forward smash, down smash, side special and down special, and was developed in the same manner as a unique character as opposed to a clone/Echo Fighter. Zakawer2 (talk) 06:21, 29 January 2019 (EST)
- Apparently, debuting in Melee is enough for Sakurai to not consider Dr. Mario an Echo Fighter. In particular, I think he wanted Doc, Pichu and Young Link to be grouped with the Melee characters, and giving them the Echo Fighter label would completely ruin this.
- On the other hand, Sakurai apparently didn't consider Dark Pit and Lucina worthy of being grouped alongside the Smash 4 veterans, especially as they were infamous low-effort clones that did not get differentiated in Ultimate at all, so he retroactively gave them the Echo Fighter label while simultaneously adding five more clones, three of which are less unique than even Dark Pit and Lucina (Daisy, Richter and Dark Samus) and two being more unique (Chrom and Ken) than the SSB4 clones. Zakawer2 (talk) 17:38, 29 January 2019 (EST)
Not only are you jumping the gun far too quickly here, but this is also NOT how you should deal with suspected sockpuppets under any circumstances. You really need to have a careful read of SW:QDV and stop playing vigilante on random users' talk pages. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 19:17, 21 February 2019 (EST)
- This behaviour is also not acceptable. This is not appropriate use of edit summaries, and targeting specific users' edits is not appropriate either. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 19:38, 21 February 2019 (EST)
Though you were right this time about the sock for MM3, I must ask that you do not accuse people of being sockpuppets without evidence. If you suspect someone of being a sockpuppet account, please add their name to the Admin noticeboard. Thanks! 18:19, 22 February 2019 (EST)