Talk:List of national tournaments

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Should we do a "Local Tournaments" section, organized by state? I think it would be a good idea to list repeating tournaments (bi-weeklies, monthlies, and bi-monthlies). --Technomancer 08:36, August 6, 2006 (GMT)

I think that's a good idea. On another note, shouldn't Tournaments be a Category? Schweppes 05:57, January 7, 2007 (GMT)
It should at least be a list, so I'll make that move. MaskedMarth (t c) 12:51, May 18, 2007 (GMT)

Caveman??[edit]

Can anyone explain what this thing is about "going into caveman time" or whatever is? There's no explanation. I may just edit it out... - Gargomon251 (talk)

Deletion[edit]

Having a list of major tournaments organized by location is pretty useful for a wiki that's meant to be geared towards players looking to get into the competitive scene, it just needs a bit of updating from someone who knows the Melee/Brawl scene well. As such, I propose that the delete tag is removed, and replaced with cleanup and stub tags. PenguinofDeath 19:44, 16 February 2012 (EST)

How would that be better than categories like "American tournaments"? Toomai Glittershine ??? The Hammer 19:45, 16 February 2012 (EST)
I would support turning this into a list of regionals/nationals. There wouldn't be too much to list, it wouldn't have the same function as the tournament listing categories, and it wouldn't be perpetually outdated. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 21:26, 16 February 2012 (EST)

Bump. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 10:00, 17 August 2012 (EDT)

Bump again. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 11:45, 20 August 2012 (EDT)

Support It would be useful to have a list of major tournaments, along with a brief description and the results. I propose having it in table format, but if other options would look better, that's fine. Mr. AnonAnon.pngtalk 12:21, 20 August 2012 (EDT)

If you can keep it reasonably up-to-date with a certain notability standard, I don't really have a problem with this page existing. Toomai Glittershine ??? The Free 20:06, 20 August 2012 (EDT)

Agreed. Besides, there are way more Major Melee tournaments than the ones currently listed so we need to add some. And this propose would probably make this article more organized. Dots The Asian NintenNESsprite.png 20:45, 20 August 2012 (EDT)

Melee Changes[edit]

If you look at the Melee year in review, you'll see there are lists of the 25 biggest tournaments of the year, and tournaments that had over 100 entrants. Personally, I think "National Tournaments" is such an outdated and flawed term, and using the two categories listed earlier would be much better instead. Nocturnal Dragon (talk) 14:26, 16 March 2014 (EDT)

If you're suggesting that "national tournament" is a poor term to be using, then we might as well delete the page altogether and use categories such as "Tournaments of 100+ entrants" to group tournaments. Toomai Glittershine ??? The Breegull 18:50, 16 March 2014 (EDT)

Yeah, but you could just rename the page Nocturnal Dragon (talk) 19:13, 16 March 2014 (EDT)

Source?[edit]

Can we get a reliable tournament that mentions all of these tournaments as nationals? Otherwise it's the the opinion of whomever edited the page.--Dinodomain (talk) 14:58, 28 January 2015 (EST)

The rankings category on SmashBoards has essentially all of these tournaments listed as nationals, which is about as close to a reliable source as you're gonna get. Plus, just objectively looking at the talent pool and recent results is enough to identify the majority of these tournaments as majors. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 16:32, 28 January 2015 (EST)
So how many top pros in the field of a tournament does it take for it to become a national?--Dinodomain (talk) 15:40, 30 January 2015 (EST)
It's less about the quantity of players than it is the quality of players (although tournament series like EVO/Apex/MLG/The Big House contain plenty of both). Northeastern Smash Attack 2, for example, had more than 200 players, but the talent pool itself was significantly lacking in comparison to other tournaments with comparable sizes, lacking real big hitters like Mango, Armada, PPMD, Hungrybox, Mew2King, Leffen, Axe, or Hax, who have managed to take the majority of top spots at the largest tournaments throughout 2014. Hope this helps a bit. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 18:09, 30 January 2015 (EST)

List of Long-running Tournament Series[edit]

While looking at pages to improve, I noted there's no hub to find the major tournament series currently active (or inactive series). We use a bottom page category box to list all the events on a tournament series, but there's no page to list them. Would this be a valuable page?

This page's goal would be to answer the simple question "What are the currently active long running tournament series?". It's easy to think of Apex, them B.E.A.S.T., The Big House and EVO (of sorts), but that's it? The page would gather all tournament series pages and give a interesting view on the traditional Smash events contrasted by largest smash events. An example of what I have in mind:

Rank Name N° Editions Most recent Next
1 Revival of Melee 7 Revival of Melee 7 TBA
2 Apex 6 Apex 2015 TBA
3 EVO 5 EVO 2015 TBA
4 B.E.A.S.T 5 B.E.A.S.T 5 Early 2016
5 The Big House 5 The Big House 4 The Big House 5

--PFFP (talk) 23:06, 13 August 2015 (EDT)

PS: if the page is rejected, I still support we at least create a new category, "Tournament Series" to tag those pages accordingly. PFFP (talk) 09:12, 14 August 2015 (EDT)
If you are suggesting a List of active tournament series page, then I'm in Serpent King (talk) 09:22, 14 August 2015 (EDT)
Something like that. But what would be the criteria to determine a "active series"? Any series with a event confirmed for the current year and at least two past events? PFFP (talk) 09:53, 14 August 2015 (EDT)
Perhaps "List of tournament series" with the restriction of regional-size events and up? Miles (talk) 11:32, 14 August 2015 (EDT)
Gonna create the page List of Tournament Series and we discuss the structure there. About active series, I think any tournament series with a event on the current year and at least one on the previous year can be considered active. We could make a "active series" and "retired or in hiatus" sections to differentiate. The Revival of Melee for example can be considered on hiatus, since there was no event scheduled to 2015, but the organizer has plans for the future. PFFP (talk) 15:26, 15 August 2015 (EDT)
Two suggestions I'd like to make: #1, the desired title should be "List of tournament series"; it's not a proper noun. #2, you may wish to make a draft in your userspace prior to mainspacing it so other users can suggest potential changes. Miles (talk) 15:36, 15 August 2015 (EDT)
Done, now please help me with wiki text options. I have some ideas, but I suck at making tables and templates (as you can see). PFFP (talk) 18:10, 15 August 2015 (EDT)

Is Apex a Smash 4 National or not?[edit]

On the subject of Apex 2016 being added or not on the List of Nationals Tournaments, I'd like to ask the opinion of the community on this: any tournament with 100+ entrants should really be considered a National Tournament? This seems pretty easy to say when it comes to games with small numbers, like Brawl and Smash 64. Any event with 100+ entrants for those games can be considered a National for sure. But what about Melee and Smash 4?

Here on the SSBWiki, on the page that explains what's the definition of a National Tournament it says that "the baseline for a tournament to be classified as such is a minimum of 100 entrants". Which makes the Smash 4 portion of Apex 2016, by definition, a National Tournament, since there's already 171 entrants. Melee will likely follow with at least 100+ as we get closer to the pre-reg deadline, since a lot of players only pre-reg on the last moment.

But still, even if Apex 2016 got to 100+ for Melee and 200+ for Smash 4, it would still be considered a National for those games?PFFP (talk) 21:01, 19 May 2016 (EDT)

I personally think that Apex gets national status unconditionally, but that's just me Serpent SKSig.png King 21:32, 19 May 2016 (EDT)
Given how few noteworthy players are attending the event, and the Smash community's general lack of interest and participation, I don't think it should qualify (it's pretty clear that the overwhelming majority of the community doesn't really care about the event). And with the rapid growth of tournaments, it's difficult to justify any tournament with 100+ entrants as being a national, because they're so many of them that it dilutes the term's meaning (and many of them don't even have much top-level talent anyways). National tournaments should continue to be evaluated on a subjective basis. Awesome Cardinal 2000 22:00, 19 May 2016 (EDT)
I believe that in the matter of Apex 2016, it's best to wait for the final registration numbers and see the list of players attending. IMO Apex is once again a regional. Numbers are pretty low and with less than a month to the event very few noteworthy players have registered. That can change on the next few weeks leading to the event, but the way I see it, most are saving it up for CEO 2016. Armada and Leffen are both going to DreamHack Summer and I believe some other high level Melee players might follow.PFFP (talk) 23:18, 19 May 2016 (EDT)

Nationals[edit]

How does what a random user post on SmashBoards makes something a national or not? Those that I removed were super-regionals and comparable to 2GGT: Fresh Saga. Also, Shots Fired 2 only had 164 entrants, so I don't know if the number of top level players justifies it's smaller size. Enthusiast Gaming Live Expo doesn't even have a page for SmashBoards. So how are the tournaments I removed nationals and not super-regionals? -- EthanEthan7sig.png(Discussion) 11:43, 10 August 2016 (EDT)

I'm not going by "random user posts", I'm going by what's posted in the Rankings section of SmashBoards (and yes, SF2 and EGLX both have Ranking pages and both were labeled as nationals, with SF2 being considered an international. There is a mod team that looks over particular tournaments as well, so some "nationals" get booted down to regionals (such as every KTAR other than the most recent one and Glitch). I also think the strength of a tournament should be a bigger factor than the size. To quote myself from over a year ago:
"Northeastern Smash Attack 2, for example, had more than 200 players, but the talent pool itself was significantly lacking in comparison to other tournaments with comparable sizes, lacking real big hitters like Mango, Armada, PPMD, Hungrybox, Mew2King, Leffen, Axe, or Hax, who have managed to take the majority of top spots at the largest tournaments throughout 2014.".
Shots Fired 2 was clearly one of the most stacked tournaments of the year. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 12:38, 10 August 2016 (EDT)
I guess you are talking about this:[1]
That seems pretty official, but I can't find Clutch City Clash. Maybe they haven't added it yet. Shots Fired 2 was stacked in regards to the number of top level players, but not entrants. -- EthanEthan7sig.png(Discussion) 13:19, 10 August 2016 (EDT)

Smash the Record 2016[edit]

Despite all of the top talent attending both games (especially Smash 4), I'm skeptical about whether or not StR should be considered a national. The first reason being that it's a tournament for charity, thus it's often not considered in many ranking systems, for example SmashBoards Rankings and PracticalTAS's Tennis Rankings. The second reason is that the stage list includes many stages unanimously considered banned in current tournament standards (ex. Great Bay, Jungle Japes in Melee and Norfair in Smash 4), and the stage selection process consists of a random selection, rather than stage striking and counterpicking (which is also a tournament standard). Zakken (talk) 18:54, 12 October 2016 (EDT)

ICARUS V and Regen 2019[edit]

I actually don't particularly mind if ICARUS V stays on the page. The country representation in the Top 32 is pretty diverse and the competition there seemed to be fairly high as well (also featuring Glutonny/Meru/Light/quik/TheFlow, who are five of the best players in Europe).

As for Regen 2019, however, I believe it should be removed from the page. Not only was the competition somewhere lacking (relatively speaking, that is) compared to ICARUS V on the same weekend, but it also had over 80% of its Top 32 players be from the UK (the country the tournament was held in), so not too many players from out of the country attended it either. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 10:53, June 15, 2019 (EDT)

I never saw Regen 2019 as a national tbh. It's definitely a major for the UK, however as you said before there isn't much other presence in other countries. Also, the player count was on the lower side compared to other European nationals such as Tech Republic IV, and although it has more entrants than ICARUS V, once again the majority of players are from England. I feel like Jamal had already said most of what I want to say, so I'll leave it at that. CookiesCnC Signature.pngCreme 21:03, June 18, 2019 (EDT)
Even for an outsider to competitive Smash, Regen 2019 doesn't seem to be a national; a national in Smash does not have the same meaning as the word "national" itself, and with a vast majority of UK players in a UK tournament, it definitely seems more like a regional than a national. Worth noting is that Regen's page itself calls it a super regional, and it's even categorized as such. Aidan, the Rurouni 13:11, July 15, 2019 (EDT)

Adding missing nationals[edit]

I'm a bit confused right now, as individual tournament pages and Category:National tournaments state that there are more national tournaments than this page says. I added a few to the Melee section, and they were removed, so I'm not exactly sure what information is correct anymore. If someone could enlighten me, that would be great. KungFuLakitu, Spiny Overlord 11:59, July 3, 2019 (EDT)

I swear someone has answered this, but for those who are wondering, a tournament can be considered a national for one game but not for the other; this is the case for the tournaments KFL added. CookiesCnC Signature.pngCreme 11:32, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

Is The mang0 2019 a Melee national?[edit]

Why The Mang0 is in the ultimate list but not in the Melee list? SsbmRoy (talk) 11:04, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

For Ultimate, there were many top players in attendance from not just the United States, but Japan and Australia as well. There's more diversity and hard players compared to the Melee tournament, which is mostly just SoCal players. CookiesCnC Signature.pngCreme 11:26, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

But Melee have more entrants,and some ranked players from Mexico,Canada and Australia SsbmRoy (talk) 12:14, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

That doesn't matter, there are more top PGR players from across the country and from Japan (Australia is an actual meh) in Ultimate than in Melee, which the majority of those in top 32 are from SoCal. CookiesCnC Signature.pngCreme 12:40, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
Actually on second thought, The Mang0 could probably be listed as a national. I don't know, if anyone has any input it should be added as one. CookiesCnC Signature.pngCreme 12:48, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
I'd consider the Mang0 to be a national. Even if you don't include the players who were sandbagging, it still had a lot of top player attendance,many from out of region. It was just as if not more stacked than Battle of BC 3 and Full Bloom 5, both of which we consider national tournaments. Jaydyn (talk) 13:58, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
I disagree. There were at least three Top 10 players in attendance (according to the Summer 2019 rankings) at both Full Bloom 5 (Zain/S2J/iBDW) and Battle of BC 3 (Axe/Zain/S2J), and both tournaments had at least one member of the current Top 7 for Melee (Zain for Full Bloom and Axe/Zain for Battle of BC). The Mango only had one player from the Top 10 that was trying (S2J) and none of the Top 7 seriously competing. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 17:18, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

Yes,The Mang0 is a national Bersapus (talk) 15:18, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

But the Mang0 have various top players like

S2J (9th) SFAT (11th) Swedish (13th) Moky (14th) PewPewU (16th) Ginger (18th) KJH (21th) Lucky (23th) ARMY (24th) WestballZ,MedZ,ChuDat (26,27 and 28th) Spud (33th) FatGoku (36th) HugS (50th) Zain (Fox)* And some others high level players. So,The Mang0 is a national... SsbmRoy (talk) 18:39, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

I disagree with you definitively calling it a national. None of those players (besides Zain, who was sandbagging with Fox) have shown themselves capable of winning a major with at least 2 of the Top 7 in attendance. It has several Top 50 players in attendance, true, but it's missing the actual major winners. I very much consider it a stacked regional. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 19:15, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

The Mang0 is a national bro,a tournament with almost 20 top 50 players isn't a regional Bersapus (talk) 20:12, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

See my previous post. It has a large field, but is entirely lacking in players who have actually won majors... so I'm going to stick to my stance that it was a stacked regional. Also, this isn't a valid counterargument, since by this logic, every player ranked from 31st-50th could attend a tournament and it would be a "national". PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 20:17, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

and in ultimate only kameme wins big tournaments,so why is this considered national and in melee no? this dont make sense Bersapus (talk) 20:44, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

I don't agree with Ultimate being listed either, actually, especially considering that it's a C-Tier that had only 2 players in the Top 30 present. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 20:58, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

Yes,this is a national,look at the number of top players,3 top 10 players [Zain,iBDW & S2J] and more top 50 players than Full Bloom & BoBC 3. Nakka (talk) 11:14, August 16, 2019 (EDT)

I'm just going to pop in and question some of these accounts. It's entirely suspicious that two other accounts have been created solely for this conversation, both with similar grammar and stylistic edits with SsbmRoy. CookiesCnC Signature.pngCreme 13:14, August 16, 2019 (EDT)

Even if that's not the case, @Nakka as long as there has been no consensus reached, the edit should not be added, even if there's a "majority". Looking at PMJ's statements, I do kinda agree with him now, since that was how I thought about the Mang0 beforehand. CookiesCnC Signature.pngCreme 13:18, August 16, 2019 (EDT)
In addition to what Cookies said, once again I'll point out that only S2J was competing seriously out of the Top 10 (Zain was playing Fox and iBDW was playing Marth). PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 13:28, August 16, 2019 (EDT)
I'm just created this account because i'm confused with national tournaments,in the national tournaments page says: "These are tournaments that holds large amounts of people from various regions of the world"

& The Mang0 has some known players from various regions,more than BoBC3 & Full Bloom 5 (and sorry if i have a bad english,i'm spanish lol) Nakka (talk) 14:07, August 16, 2019 (EDT)

Still, that doesn't mean it's a national. The majority of people were sandbagging. Don't you think a tournament full of people playing weak characters should not be considered a national? Don't forget, nationals are where players shows the skills of the Melee community, playing seriously without sandbagging. That's what BoBC 3 and Full Bloom 4 is different - people were serious and trying to win. No one was at the Mang0. CookiesCnC Signature.pngCreme 14:27, August 16, 2019 (EDT)
Oh,ok but The Mang0 is a regional for ultimate too,right? Only one top player attend Nakka (talk) 15:03, August 16, 2019 (EDT)
I do think Ultimate at The Mang0 was a regional as well, yeah. I'm okay with removing it, personally. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 15:16, August 16, 2019 (EDT)

Fête[edit]

Do you think Fetê is a national? A large amount of people from different regions entered this tournament (More than 300 entrants)

Nakka (talk) 19:12, August 17, 2019 (EDT)
Can you link to the tournament? CookiesCnC Signature.pngCreme 19:34, August 17, 2019 (EDT)
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tournament:Fête Nakka (talk) 19:52, August 17, 2019 (EDT)
There aren't any top 10 players at the tournament, plus there are only a very few ranked players there. So no, I don't believe it's a national. CookiesCnC Signature.pngCreme 19:59, August 17, 2019 (EDT)