Chain grab: Difference between revisions

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* [[Sheik (SSBM)|Sheik]]: can chain most characters (Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Ganondorf, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, Link, Ness, and Sheik) with her dthrow from as little as 0% up to as high as 90%. This however doesn't work in the PAL version of Melee due to her dthrow sending her opponents too far forward to grab again.
* [[Sheik (SSBM)|Sheik]]: can chain most characters (Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Ganondorf, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, Link, Ness, and Sheik) with her dthrow from as little as 0% up to as high as 90%. This however doesn't work in the PAL version of Melee due to her dthrow sending her opponents too far forward to grab again.
* [[Marth (SSBM)|Marth]] and [[Roy (SSBM)|Roy]]: Their [[up throw]] can be used against [[Fox (SSBM)|Fox]] and [[Falco (SSBM)|Falco]], while their [[forward throw]] can be used against lighter characters like [[Peach (SSBM)|Peach]] and other Marths. Marth's fthrow can pseudo chain throw Fox/Falco from 0% to about 9%
* [[Marth (SSBM)|Marth]] and [[Roy (SSBM)|Roy]]: Their [[up throw]] can be used against [[Fox (SSBM)|Fox]] and [[Falco (SSBM)|Falco]], while their [[forward throw]] can be used against lighter characters like [[Peach (SSBM)|Peach]] and other Marths. Marth's fthrow can pseudo chain throw Fox/Falco from 0% to about 9%
* [[Ice Climbers (SSBM)|Ice Climbers]]: through [[desynching]], an [[Ice Climber]] player can achieve devastating chain grabs against a large portion of the [[SSBM]] cast. The player controlled [[Ice Climber]] alone can chain grab people at lower percentages with their [[down throw]].
* [[Ice Climbers (SSBM)|Ice Climbers]]: can chain throw nearly every character in the game with a variety of chain throws. Wobbling, which is the least escapable when performed right, can trap an opponent forever or until the player kills them or messes up. Edge chain throwing exploits Nana's AI so that the player can alternate throws between Popo and Nana when they're facing the edge of the stage. If Popo has grabbed the opponent, the player can ping his opponet with Popo and Nana uses her down-B. This is inescapable while Nana's using her down-B. Against the Fast fallers and Roy, Popo can dthrow while Nana immediatly dairs them to force the player's opponent to land standing up and easily grabable. Even without Nana, Popo by himself can chain throw a handful of characters, such as Roy, Sheik, and Ganondorf.
* [[Captain Falcon (SSBM)|Captain Falcon]]: can chain throw characters of medium to low falling speed with his down throw and can [[tech-chase]] fastfallers into another grab after an up throw, creating a de facto chain throw. It only works from 0% to about 20% and can easily be escaped with good DI. Captain Falcon can also use his up throw to chain throw fast falling characters at low percentages.
* [[Captain Falcon (SSBM)|Captain Falcon]]: can chain throw characters of medium to low falling speed with his down throw and can [[tech-chase]] fastfallers into another grab after an up throw, creating a de facto chain throw. It only works from 0% to about 20% and can easily be escaped with good DI. Captain Falcon can also use his up throw to chain throw fast falling characters at low percentages.
* [[Mr. Game & Watch (SSBM)|Mr. Game & Watch]]: Can chain grab with all four of his grabs to medium high percentages. Very versatile since all of his directions for grabs can be used for chain grabbing.
* [[Mr. Game & Watch (SSBM)|Mr. Game & Watch]]: Can chain grab with all four of his grabs to medium high percentages. Very versatile since all of his directions for grabs can be used for chain grabbing.

Revision as of 17:02, September 26, 2009

A chain grab (also chain throw) refers to a series of grabs and throws that the victim cannot escape. Generally, a player throws the opponent a specific direction (most commonly down or up), chases the enemy's directional influence, and grabs the opponent while (s)he is still in mid-air and before (s)he can tech. Sheik and the Ice Climbers are examples of characters who rely heavily on chain grabs. The usefulness of chain grabbing in Brawl has been reduced with the addition of Prat Falling. Generally, Fast-fallers, heavyweights, and large characters tend to be more vulnerable to chain grabs than floaty characters, lightweights, and smaller characters.

File:Dededechaingrab.gif
Dedede's infinite chaingrab

Controversy

Chain grabbing is a controversial technique within the community. Many players consider it an unsportsmanlike move because it can be inescapable when perfected by the grabber. However, tournament players generally see it as a valid technique which characters like Sheik, Marth, and the Ice Climbers need to overcome other deficiencies in high-level matches.

Examples

Characters with well-known chain grabs include the following.

Super Smash Bros.

  • Pikachu: can chain most characters with its forward throw though this will only work for 1 or 2 throws
  • Fox: can chain most characters to with his forward throw similar to Pikachu
  • DK: can chain all characters to extreme percents by release grabbing with his forward throw A.K.A. cargo-stalling (Isai discovered this). He can also chain most characters by bouncing them off objects with his back throw similar to King Dedede

Super Smash Bros. Melee

  • Sheik: can chain most characters (Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Ganondorf, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, Link, Ness, and Sheik) with her dthrow from as little as 0% up to as high as 90%. This however doesn't work in the PAL version of Melee due to her dthrow sending her opponents too far forward to grab again.
  • Marth and Roy: Their up throw can be used against Fox and Falco, while their forward throw can be used against lighter characters like Peach and other Marths. Marth's fthrow can pseudo chain throw Fox/Falco from 0% to about 9%
  • Ice Climbers: can chain throw nearly every character in the game with a variety of chain throws. Wobbling, which is the least escapable when performed right, can trap an opponent forever or until the player kills them or messes up. Edge chain throwing exploits Nana's AI so that the player can alternate throws between Popo and Nana when they're facing the edge of the stage. If Popo has grabbed the opponent, the player can ping his opponet with Popo and Nana uses her down-B. This is inescapable while Nana's using her down-B. Against the Fast fallers and Roy, Popo can dthrow while Nana immediatly dairs them to force the player's opponent to land standing up and easily grabable. Even without Nana, Popo by himself can chain throw a handful of characters, such as Roy, Sheik, and Ganondorf.
  • Captain Falcon: can chain throw characters of medium to low falling speed with his down throw and can tech-chase fastfallers into another grab after an up throw, creating a de facto chain throw. It only works from 0% to about 20% and can easily be escaped with good DI. Captain Falcon can also use his up throw to chain throw fast falling characters at low percentages.
  • Mr. Game & Watch: Can chain grab with all four of his grabs to medium high percentages. Very versatile since all of his directions for grabs can be used for chain grabbing.
  • Peach, Pikachu, Pichu, Fox and others: many characters can use chain grabs against the fast fallers.
  • Mario and Dr. Mario can also chainthrow Fox, Falco, and sometimes Captain Falcon with uthrow from about 10% to about 60% and from downthrow at above 150%. Their dthrows can also chainthrow Sheik.
  • Peach can chainthrow another Peach using her down throw, and can chainthrow Captain Falcon, Falco, and Fox with upthrow from about 60% - 100%.
  • Fox can chainthrow another Fox or Falco using an up throw usually from over 10% to death if the Fox player is good enough.
  • Link can limitedly chainthrow opponents at very low percentages with his forward throw, however it is easy to DI out of.

Super Smash Bros. Brawl

  • Bowser can chain grab by grab releasing the opponent. However it needs perfect timing with dash grabs. Works on everyone except Donkey Kong and Ice Climbers together. This is an infinite in walls until the opponent manages to jump break.
  • Charizard can infinite ground release Ness and Lucas.
  • Falco can chaingrab with down throw at lower percentages against everyone except very floaty characters, usually giving around 42% to most characters, more to the heavyweights.
  • Fox can chaingrab with using his forward throw on most characters by running fast at the right time.
  • Ice Climbers can chaingrab backwards, forward, down, and up throws (only used for hobbling) on the whole cast except the Ice Climbers themselves. There are a lot of chain grabs that the Ice Climbers can perform such as the usual alternating grabs, grab spikes, footstool grabs, release grabs, and more. An Ice Climber player can make the chain grab "infinite" and "inescapable" when timing is 100% perfect. A lone ice climber, or SoPo can chaingrab by down throws at lower percentages on most fast fallers like Fox. Note that if both Ice Climbers are present, they are considered to be "immune" to chain grabs. See here for more information.
  • King Dedede Chaingrabs with down throw at characters with weight 0.944 (Marth's weight) or heavier and at any percentage by running grab, many lighter characters instead fall, which can still be a chain grab with prediction. he can also chain grab by the wall infinitely and finish with a back throw. He does not need a wall to infinite some characters, such as Mario, Luigi (cannot be dash or walk chain grabbed) Bowser, Samus, and Donkey Kong and infinite near the edge of stages on Wolf and another King Dedede.
  • Kirby Chaingrabs with his down throw on fast fallers for the early percentages.
  • Marth can chaingrab with his forward throw on certain characters like Captain Falcon at low percents. He can also infinite ground grab release on Ness (0-death if enough skilled) and Lucas. His up-B can help him escape from most chaingrabs (except from the Dedede's running grab and Ice Climbers Infinite Grab).
  • Lucario can chaingrab with its Force Palm for some characters like Captain Falcon. It can also chaingrab fast-fallers with its up throw at lower to medium percentages. It can also do an AAA combo to a Force Palm, it works for heavy characters and some certain characters like Sheik and Wolf, etc. and stops around 37% and sometimes 50% on heavy characters. It only works if Lucario is at lower percentages.
  • Olimar can chaingrab with his down throw. However, this chain grab is very situational. It only works at low percentages, but if it can be pulled off, it is a guaranteed 30% on the opponent.
  • Peach can chaingrab by down throws, turning to the other direction and grabbing him/her , works at lower percentages and only fast-fallers.
  • Pikachu can chaingrab a multitude of characters by using buffered grabs out of its down throw and forward throw, sometimes alternating between them with a pummel to control its "staleness". [1]
  • Pit can chaingrab with forward throws on certain characters like Fox and Bowser, but it only works at lower percentages.
  • Ike can chain grab almost anyone with his back and forward throw for a very long time, most definitely go over 100%. He can also grab release infinite Wario by pivot grabbing, but it needs nearly perfectly timed.
  • Yoshi: 1. Chaingrabs by using the A attack while grabbing. You chew (the attack) them until they escape. Then do a pivot grab and grab them again when they come back down from the air. Called Infinite Pivot Grabbing, although the name could change or have multiple names. 2. Chaingrabs by using a Forward Throw.
  • Zero Suit Samus can chaingrab most characters with her forward and back throws.
  • Wario can chain grab up to higher percentages with his down throw on characters which are Captain Falcon (0-70%), Ganondorf (0-90%), Wolf (20-220%), Falco (52-120%, from 73% the throw must be stale), Donkey Kong (0-100%) and Bowser (0-180%, can even hit with his Wario Waft out of the attack)
  • Snake can chain grab everyone and at any percent with down throw by predicting where the opponent rolls, but only twice racks up more than 20%.
  • Toon Link can chain with his down throw, turning around with every throw. Does around 50%.
  • Mario and Luigi can both chain grab with their forward throw across neutral stages, but only works at lower percentages.
  • Donkey Kong can chain grab with down throw some characters at early percentages. He can also carry release infinite on Ness and Lucas and is guaranteed by turning before released and turn grab so Ness/Lucas releases in his back (turned grab).
  • Wolf can chaingrab with his down throw which can chainthrow on lower percentages.
  • Captain Falcon can chainthrow with his forward throw at lower percentages.

The following characters can be chain grabbed by Yoshi, some are harder to chain grab than others. Bowser, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Wario, Link, Ganondorf, Zero Suit Samus, Pit, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Falco, Captain Falcon, Pikachu, Squirtle, Charizard, Ike, Lucas, Snake, and Sonic (Sonic is much harder to do, you need to react quickly when he releases or else he will escape.)

  • Note: In order to chaingrab well/correctly, you must perform a Dashing Shield Cancel Grab, not just a Dashing Grab.

Practicing

An easy way to master the chaingrab is to practice with Dedede's down throw on heavy characters such as Ganondorf against a wall, such as the ones in Shadow Moses Island. Simply grab the opponent, perform the down throw, and grab him again once he or she is on his feet. This is easier to do with a human player controlling the target you're trying to chaingrab for the sake of better cooperation. The idea behind doing it against a wall is so that rather than Ganondorf moving towards the edge (and eventually off of it) with each consecutive throw, you can do it indefinitely because the wall will keep him within Dedede's reach. Once you've mastered it with heavyweights, it's recommended you try it on lighter characters since it's harder to do against them.

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