Talk:Equipment

From SmashWiki, the Super Smash Bros. wiki
Jump to navigationJump to search

Characters into Characters[edit]

Are there any good means for assessing what equipment values can help modify characters into other characters? I'd like to be able to, say, take Dr. Mario, and with some calculations and a bit of luck, be able to up his speed and down his attack to make him more like Mario (Sans FLUDD). Alternatively, this could help people create rollbacks for some of the characters who get fixed in patches.

I know SSB4 fans have mixed feelings about turning on customization, since the alternate B moves tend to be more savvy than the equipment, but if there were a way to make and describe equipment sets that allow characters to be added to the game which have stats which reflect previous iterations of Smash Bros, or allow a Captain Hawk player to play Gannondorf seamlessly, I think even the equipment customization might be considered with positive association. Werty8472 (talk) 17:58, 12 August 2015 (EDT)

Unused Equipment[edit]

The Chip and Battery are seemingly unused. Should this be mentioned on the page or am I missing something here? Machspeed also looks unused, but I'm guessing it's used for Kirby. Laikue (talk|contribs) 14:35, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

The Chip is listed for Mr. Game & Watch, and it's very plausible that Machspeed matches the Kirby characters. Miles (talk) 15:37, 23 September 2014 (EDT)
Ugh, I'm an idiot. Ignore this talk page. Laikue (talk|contribs) 18:32, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

Japanese names[edit]

Should we remove the Japanese as we add the English names, or keep it, or...? I un-italicized the names that I updated but kept the Japanese; was that the right thing to do? Leafbarrett (talk) 13:21, 4 October 2014 (EDT)

I do wish people would stop erasing the Japanese just because they don't play that version. There are members who do play the Japanese but also use the English wiki, and it really doesn't hurt the other users to see a third name just because they can't read it. Jarie Suicune (talk) 12:59, 30 January 2016 (EST)

Value of increase?[edit]

I've been toying around with equipment, and it seems that a +1 increase in Attack increases damage dealt by about 1%. Can somebody verify this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.152.70.243 (talkcontribs) 12:10, 12 November 2014 (EST)

I've given many characters a 200+ in attack and they did twice the amount of damage that they did at their base power. I'd say that they're given attack increases in terms of decimals/fractions with certain numbers. Blue Sun (talk) 18:06, 28 November 2014 (EDT)
It appears, in this case, that "+1 = +0.5%"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZobmieRules (talkcontribs) 17:28, 10 December 2014 (EST)

Equipment dump?[edit]

I'd like to contribute to the min-max section, as I'm certain I have some that are better than those shown. But, I'm lazy, and don't want to go through the lists. Would it be acceptable if I dump my equipment and their stats here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZobmieRules (talkcontribs) 17:16, 10 December 2014 (EST)

Dumping directly onto this page would be unsuitable. However, you could do so on your userpage, like I did on mine. Toomai Glittershine ??? The Spark 18:16, 10 December 2014 (EST)
Well, my userpage is now an equipment dump. Hooray. If anyone wants to update all of the min-max's that are there, feel free. It'd make my time spent on that list worth it. Who knows, I was able to make that list, so maybe I'll be not-lazy enough to update them myself. Eh, either way. ZobmieRules (talk) 21:36, 15 December 2014 (EST)

Values of equipment effects[edit]

At least in the world of amiibo, it seems that beneficial equipment have a negative value of sorts, while hindering equipment have a positive value of sorts. I'm thinking that this probably has to do with the capacity of the max att/def/spd values of the amiibo, but maybe we could add those values. Quajustu (talk) 19:17, 15 February 2015 (EST)

Unlockable equipment (Wii U)[edit]

Some equipment is “unlockable” through the challenge board or event matches. Can this equipment also be obtained in other ways, or is it unique? Or perhaps it becomes available normally after being unlocked once, like some of the trophies? This should be tested and depending on the results, this equipment should be listed on List of unlockables (SSB4-Wii U). —Fenhl 23:47, 1 March 2015 (EST)

I strongly suspect that you can gain stuff just like unlockable equipment at random; the challenges and events just guarantee specific type-effect combinations. I'm not sure we can prove it though. Toomai Glittershine ??? The Awesome 23:58, 1 March 2015 (EST)

Values of equipment[edit]

When updating the equipment values table, I've noticed that most equipment with medium rarity tends to have a maximum possible stat boost of 60. Plus, I don't think the developers would explicitly give some characters better possible pools of equipment than others. Is this a coincidence, or could all equipment of the same rarity have the same possible stat gains and losses? Nyargleblargle (Talk) 11:22, 2 June 2015 (EDT)

Another Equipment Thing[edit]

In this video, there is a Fast Bat Striker, which sounds remarkably similar to the Quick Batter we have listed. Is this video PAL or something? SYZekrom (talk) 21:18, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

Yep, the video is definitely PAL (you can see the word “Defence” in the screenshot of the custom Fox), and I can confirm that Fast Bat Smasher is the PAL name for Quick Batter. —Fenhl 10:52, 22 June 2015 (EDT)

Equipment stats section revamp?[edit]

From what I've gathered, equipment stats are calculated as such:

  • Assuming no bonus effect, the positive stat is between 10 and 85 (10-30 = Common, 31-60 = Uncommon, 61-85 = Rare)
  • The negative stat is between 50% and 70% of the positive stat.
  • If equipment has a positive bonus effect, subtract the effect's (Amiibo) stat modifier from its positive stat value.
  • Similarly, if equipment has a negative bonus effect, subtract the effect's stat modifier from its negative stat value.
  • No equipment will be generated that results in a positive or a negative stat value below 5.
  • After all those calculations, "generic" badges (Brawn, Protection, Agility) have both stats multiplied by 71.875% (23/32).
  • Stats are rounded down if necessary.

This seems to hold for all of the equipment I have on my Wii U game (upwards of 1000), and for the most part lines up with the data in the "Known equipment stat values" section, which could probably be removed. I'm not sure what the probability of it generating equipment with a certain strength / effect is, but I imagine it varies between modes, difficulty, etc. Hope this helps! Jdaster64 (talk)

This does seem to be the case, at least in the case of equipment second names (Toad, Sacred Treasures) not affecting strength. If anyone has any evidence against this, though, please present it. Equipment is fairly unexplored. Nyargleblargle (Talk) 18:07, 10 August 2015 (EDT)
If nothing else, I'm 99.999% sure that the equipment second names always correspond to the ranges 10-30, 31-60, and 61-85; the game data has a huge table that seems to indicate that is the case. Jdaster64 (talk)
My own research here is a bit behind, but I do agree that the "known values" section has been obsoleted. I plan to see if my data matches your analysis and if so replace the section. Toomai Glittershine ??? The Celeritous 18:09, 10 August 2015 (EDT)
Okay I'm referencing my own data and I have a question in regards to working backwards to obtain "raw" values. I have a Shield Exploder Protection Badge of +12/-30. Unbadging it leads to +16.7/-41.7, and removing the Shield Exploder (-30) from the positive gives +46.7/-41.7 - which is way too weak (negative is almost 90% of positive). On the other hand, I have an Item Shooter Ring of +40/-17, and removing the -33 from the positive leads to +73/17 - far too strong (~23%). There are enough of these abnormalities that I don't think it's a transcription error (okay, the ring might be, but not the badge). What's the deal? Toomai Glittershine ??? The Frivolous 18:49, 10 August 2015 (EDT)
Also, do you happen to have found the price formula in your travels? Toomai Glittershine ??? The Altruistic 18:51, 10 August 2015 (EDT)
What about the amiibo stat modifier? Nyargleblargle (Talk) 18:53, 10 August 2015 (EDT)
I haven't tested the stats of bonus effects on all of my generic badges yet, but all of them thus far line up with the process I outlined above, and fall everywhere within the [0.5,0.7) range. There is a single Hyper Smasher Brawn Badge that falls outside, with (+16,-28), but it's a challenge reward with fixed stats, and as such might not be subject to the same rules. Not sure why there seem to be a few outliers in your data, but I can tell you that all of my errors beforehand ended up being due to erroneously listing a few Agility Badges with all my character-specific equipment (they look similar to boots, and it's kind of tedious entering 800+ equipment pieces at once). The amiibo stat modifiers on the page currently line up with the game data from what I can tell (I added a few missing ones), and I haven't figured out how sell prices work. For the record, here's a link to a copy of my data thus far: XLSX. I'm probably going to be busy the next few days, so I won't really be able to look at it much more in-depth. Jdaster64 (talk)
One more thing; on the note of sell prices, there's a list of floats tied to int ranges of positive stats in the game data that seem to have something to do with sell prices. For instance, 71-85 : 1.71, 61-70 : 1.44, 51-60 : 1.35... There are definitely notable drops in sell prices every ten positive points; I tried to fit some functions to the data with these values in mind, but couldn't find anything very close. I'll go ahead a post a link to all the equipment data I was able to find in the game, in text form with some annotations: Text Jdaster64 (talk)

Sorry to spam this page, but I found out that sell prices for all effect-less equipment are (1.0 * positive - 0.6 * negative) * tier multiplier (1.71, 1.44, 1.35...), rounded down (e.g. Max-Power Gloves (+54, -30) = (54 - 0.6*30)*1.35 = 48G). Generic badges use the stat tier they would be if they were non-generic for the tier multiplier, but the stats they actually have for the positive and negative values (e.g. Rare Brawn Badge (+61, -36) = (61 - 0.6*36)*1.71 = 67G). In practice, I guess this means a Rare Brawn Badge w/(+43, -25) and a Super Brawn Badge w/(+43, -25) could have different sell prices, if their original stats were +61 and +60, respectively. I'm not sure how the sell price works for equipment with effects, since it seems to vary a lot more. It likely has to do with the stuff around the 1.00, 0.60 in the data, but I haven't turned up anything yet. Jdaster64 (talk)

Equipment with bonus effects sell price: (1.0 * positive - 0.6 * negative + 1.1 * (positive stat modifier, if applicable) - 0.4 * (negative stat modifier, if applicable)) * tier multiplier (assuming unmodified stats), rounded down. I presume the same process for generic effectless badges applies to generic badges with effects as well. Jdaster64 (talk)
Okay I'm confident enough to add this to the page now. Good stuff. Also, make sure to sign your posts with four tildes, or the timestamp will be missing. Toomai Glittershine ??? The Resolute 16:31, 11 August 2015 (EDT)

Comprehensive Data Tables[edit]

Hi. I just finished compiling my Comprehensive Data Tables and was just wondering if my research could be put onto the page or not. --Arima (talk) 00:34, 29 August 2015 (EDT)

In some way, possibly, but you'll need a tone change (it needs to be more "here are the values" than "here is my advice"), and it needs to be more understandable. SerpentKing (talk) 00:48, 29 August 2015 (EDT)
Can you please elaborate on how the Information is hard to understand?--Arima (talk) 02:12, 29 August 2015 (EDT)

Lost Forever[edit]

I had a custom character with a Rare Piece of Equipment that had +82 and -42 and I just did a curious experiment where I replaced it with a different Piece that had +70 and -35. When I saved the changes and went back into Equipment selection, the Equipment that had +82 and -42 was no longer in the inventory. It did not show up when I shifted the sorting category to "Last Used". Apparently, you can no longer change Equipment on custom characters without losing the Equipment that they were previously using. In what Patch Update did they implement this? Because it certainly was not in Version 1.0.0. --Arima (talk) 23:26, 4 September 2015 (EDT)

Oh crap, is this for real? I can't touch my "Sleep Kirby" Jigglypuff then Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png 18:36, 20 February 2016 (EST)
Is it on your Wii U or 3DS? If it's the former, copy your save data to a USB drive (if not, system memory), and test it. If you do lose it, you'll still have the data that I told you to copy so you can get it back.

If it's on your 3DS, then I hope you have a PowerSave device. Unowninator (talk) 19:08, 20 February 2016 (EST)

Actually now that i think of it, this did happen to me on the 3DS ver. Though luckily it was just a useless piece of equipment... Also Unown, I saw your No-Flinch equipment video Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png 19:12, 20 February 2016 (EST)

Oh? Unowninator (talk) 19:18, 20 February 2016 (EST)

New Number Cap[edit]

I have just discovered two pieces of equipment that have positive values exceed 85. The two pieces of equipment in question are my Picky Eater Sword (+88,−23) and my Risky Respawner Gloves (+89,−30). I daresay that the highest positive number for rare equipment is a "90". I have more another piece of equipment which adds to this theory. I have a Shield Regenerator Booster whose values are both +69 and −30 respectively (it sells for 126g, the highest out of everything on my Nintendo 3DS and my Nintendo Wii U). The table states that the Shield Regenerator bonus effect takes away 21 from the positive stat. Add 21 and 69 together and what do you get? 90. Blue Sun (talk) 2:16, 27 November 2015 (EDT)

Something seems off about this information, as it doesn't seem to follow the formula trend. Equipment that has a positive value of 89 can't have a negative value that's greater than 62, so the Risky Respawner equipment can only have a negative value of 30, if its positive value is 90; 30+33=63. 67.242.7.137 15:34, 28 November 2015 (EST)
I should probably point out now that legit equipment never has positive values that are greater than 85; you can never legally acquire any equipment with a positive value of 86 to 90. 67.242.7.137 17:56, 30 November 2015 (EST)

Video proof of No-Flinch Smasher giving no Super Armor. I really feel we should add this.[edit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj3uNBy4OxE

I can't hack, so I have no way of figuring out the limit, or even if it stacks (Originally they said the item starting don't stack, but I proved that false. How do I know this isn't the same here?). Unowninator (talk) 16:37, 11 February 2016 (EST)

For now I'm just gonna add that it's seemingly limited armour. From the looks of it, it probably takes a certain amount of damage or knockback to break through it. Might be possible to work it out through testing. Zyrac sig.png Zyrac(talkcontribs) 04:54, 12 February 2016 (EST)

Defense increasing weight?[edit]

So, I have a "Sleep Kirby" Jigglypuff (Attack +80, Defense +21, Speed -32), right? Well, I wanted to test if my Jigglypuff is heavier than a normal one. According to Woolly World, it's indeed heavier. And on a side note, I used a KO Uppercut against both Jigglypuffs on Final Destination. Normal gets both killed and "deadly blown" at 12% while Sleep Kirby gets killed at 14% but deadly blown at 15% Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png 19:32, 20 February 2016 (EST)

If you're talking about the black & red outline, I think that's random. If you want, we could test it together on Wi-Fi on Golden Plains (3DS). I'd just need your Friend Code (and if you have Pokemon X/Y, your Friend Safari, if that's possible). Unowninator (talk) 19:35, 20 February 2016 (EST)

Unfortunately, I don't have SSB3DS, but don't you have SSBWU? Also, i always thought Deadly Blow meant the exact amount of damage they will always get KO'd at. Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png 19:43, 20 February 2016 (EST)

Uh, you said this just earlier: "Actually now that i think of it, this did happen to me on the 3DS ver. Though luckily it was just a useless piece of equipment... Also Unown, I saw your No-Flinch equipment video Kirby's Crazy Appetite 19:12, 20 February 2016 (EST)

Which is it? Unowninator (talk) 19:46, 20 February 2016 (EST)

Oh... I wanted to keep this secret, but... it broke.. Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png 19:48, 20 February 2016 (EST)

Ah, sorry for freeing the cat. The reason I wanted to try it on the 3DS was because when I tried on the Wii U's Pikmin stage, the platforms were difficult to test; they stopped too slowly for me to tell if the weights were equal. I was hoping the 3DS would be better, but I only have 1 copy of the game. Unowninator (talk) 19:51, 20 February 2016 (EST)
I was depressed for quite a few days, and yeah, that Garden Of Hope is unreliable. But now the only option is Woolly World Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png 19:56, 20 February 2016 (EST)

Where's the weight-checker in that? BTW, how did your 3DS break? Maybe it can be repaired somehow. Unowninator (talk) 20:09, 20 February 2016 (EST)

The platforms carrying the cloud and rocket. And the 3DS itself didn't break (though it's R button is kinda messed up) I was stupid enough to crash the game too many times. Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png 20:15, 20 February 2016 (EST)
So what are we going to do? Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png 20:54, 20 February 2016 (EST)

Nothing, I guess. Unowninator (talk) 20:55, 20 February 2016 (EST)

Um, would you like to play Smash Wii U anyway? Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png 21:11, 20 February 2016 (EST)

Does Nimble/Dodgy Dodger affect the frames at the beginning or end of a dodge? Also, do they affect Bat Within's trigger period?[edit]

I feel they should be added if someone knows. Unowninator (talk) 13:51, 26 February 2016 (EST)

Attack multiplier[edit]

By creating a custom Mario and using forward tilt repeatedly in Training Mode, I determined that Mario did about .12% more damage using forward tilt, accounting for base damage and the strength of the badge, it seems that each +1 increase in Attack adds .008 to a damage multiplier. Can anyone corroborate or correct this? Nyargleblargle.pngNyargleblargle (Contribs) 15:59, 8 April 2016 (EDT)

You're going to have to elaborate on what equipment you used. ex: Is Mario's attack at +23 or +123? Also, don't use the random button because that'll give the CPU random equipment. Unowninator (talk) 17:24, 8 April 2016 (EDT)

It was +11 in case the multiplier doesn't increase linearly. I didn't use the random button. Nyargleblargle.pngNyargleblargle (Contribs) 17:29, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
I did some more tests (using +5, +15, and +20 Attack equipment), and the multiplier indeed seems to increase linearly, but by a factor more like .01 per +1 increase in attack. Nyargleblargle.pngNyargleblargle (Contribs) 13:21, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Critical Hitter[edit]

In the Wii U version, is it possible to get a Critical Hitter Badge randomly if you don't do the challenge for a Critical Hitter Badge? Because I can't do 9.0 and I want one for my custom Kirby so badly Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ KirbysCrazyAppetiteSig.png 13:05, 16 July 2016 (EDT)

Not sure how long I have to wait, but bump Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ KirbysCrazyAppetiteSig.png 22:52, 16 July 2016 (EDT)
The WiiU I play on has a Critical Hitter Sword and hasn't cleared Classic above 8.0 with anyone, so I'm pretty sure you're good. There's also the 3DS version but that challenge wall badge is impossibly bad, literally (it has worse stats than any randomly dropping Critical Hitter Badge). --24.212.154.197 08:31, 10 April 2018 (EDT)

Method of information collection[edit]

Firstly, I used Luigi's down taunt on a regular Bowser, then one i gave +200 defence to. The one with +200 defence took less knockback, despite Luigi's down taunt knockback not being affected by dealt damage. Then to prove that it wasn't the weight that was affected, I tested and recorded the amount of time it took for Mario to perform his back throw on the regular and +200 defence Bowser in 1/4 speed. It took the same amount of time for both, so the weight was not changed. Alex Parpotta (talk) 11:01, 11 February 2017 (EST)

No stats between 5 and -5? The negative value is 50–70% of the positive value? I'm not too sure.[edit]

I feel like this should be changed up or looked at more carefully; I just received Tough Edge Clothes and its stats are 89/-4. Now, taking the information we have about negative stat values, assuming that the original stat value was 44 (which is 44.5 rounded down from being half of 89), when we add the +33 modifier to the -44 stat it should be a -12. I also have a Risky Respawner Sword that has +88/-3 stats just like the Tough Edge Clothes with the negative values being above -5.

Beyond that I have a Critical Hitter Bat, Critical Hitter Needles, Auto Healer Sword, and Hyper Smasher Sword that all have 32/-30, 32/-30, 48/-30, and 61/-30 as their negative values respectively. When you take the negative modifiers from the main article and subtract them from the positive values, they all add up to 90 (-58 for Critical Hitter, -42 for Auto healer, and -29 for Hyper Smasher). Their negative values do not match up with either the original 90 stat (being below 50%) or the new stats after adding the modifiers to them (going above 70%) with the possible exception of the Hyper Smasher Sword (since 30 is the rounded down form of 30.5 which is half of 61). I'd bring up more equipment I have as examples that don't follow the typical rules but I'll just leave it at that for now.

All of the above are conquest prizes by the way, so that may have something to do with it. Blue Sun (talk) 23:22, 12 May 2017 (EDT)

Extra damage nullified in knockback calculation[edit]

One thing that's unusual about the knockback relating to increased attack stats is that the game does not treat the moves as dealing as much damage as they do when calculating knockback for moves that are boosted by the attack stat. You can see this very clearly using the smash calculator, which for instance calculates that if the damage output were doubled, Mario's uncharged up smash would KO at 42.5% in training mode on FD. In fact under these conditions but with the damage doubled by a +200 attack stat, the move does not kill until 106%, much later. This clearly shows that the extra damage is mostly nullified, and the knockback increase is minimal (the default move kills at 118%, just 12% later). Does this sufficiently prove that the extra damage is ignored? Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 07:07, 10 March 2018 (EST)

Seems pretty straightforward, and mostly matches with my own testing and math. Toomai Glittershine ??? Da Bomb 19:58, 10 March 2018 (EST)

Dr. Mario in Ultimate[edit]

Why does this info keep getting removed? From what I understand, Dr. Mario’s stats are coded to be completely identical to Mario’s, but have external modifiers that make him slower and stronger. Was this info false? Lou Cena (talk) 13:37, May 27, 2019 (EDT)

Yes, this is correct, but in Ultimate these modifiers do not line up with equipment modifiers very well. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer