Talk:Tier list/Archive 7

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NOTE: We understand that tiers are a point of contention among members of the Smash community. However, this page discusses the tier lists that the Smash Back Room have posted. These are accepted by almost every high level player, and as such are important and notable content to this wiki. Discussion on this talk page should be limited to the content of the page, not to debate on the ordering of tiers, we report the tier lists, we don't decide them. If you want to discuss the tier lists, go to these Forums; (Forum for Brawl, forum for Melee). If you want to argue tier placements, take it to Smashboards, not here. Additionally, do not use this page to argue about the existence of tiers. If you firmly believe tiers do not exist and are intent on changing the Wiki's stance about it, go see the argument we have on it on this page here, and thoroughly refute the treatise on its talk page, do not argue it here.

Simplified version of the above: Don't edit this page unless you have something to contribute about what the SBR said and the content of this article. We don't care if you disagree with them or tiers in general.

Controversy subsections

Hey guys! First I am wondering if it's okay to talk here at all because it looks like not a lot is going on while everything else got pushed into archives. If it's okay, I'd like to begin splitting the tiers controversy section into two parts: One subsection over the existence of tiers, and another subsection discussing how much character popularity contributes to the shape of the tiers and vice-versa, weaving in some data from the unofficial census by GreatGonzales (Smashboards is down at the time I am writing this.) I think I could help make it sound less charged (not to imply it actually is, just that I could make it more approachable and compelling) and more concise. It's a wall of text at the moment and some parts are redundant or in the wrong place. --Quilt (talk) 08:16, 27 August 2013 (EDT)

I feel this paragraph is not necessary because 1. People commonly choose their character based on how viable they are in competitive play. 2. As the metagame evolves, the true power of each character and their tier placement is discovered, meaning that character popularity has little effect on a character's tier placement, especially the current ones. Awesome Cardinal 2000 10:15, 27 August 2013 (EDT)

I think you should point out what paragraph you feel isn't necessary. In case you're curious, there is data suggesting that casual players play the same characters just as much as tournament players. This could imply several things. I still think this whole section needs to be rewritten to be more factual and less as a rebuttal. --Quilt (talk) 10:28, 27 August 2013 (EDT)

Project M tier list

Should we include the Project M tier list on this page? ZeldaStarfoxfan2164 (talk) is a never lover boy 21:18, 26 March 2014 (EDT)

No, it's on the Project M page itself. Miles (talk) 21:26, 26 March 2014 (EDT)

I'm sure it's obvious from the recent changes spam, but I'm adding the tier list placements to the character pages as well. Ryxis (talk) 21:27, 26 March 2014 (EDT)

Should characters with the same score be considered to be ranked at the point of the tie, or at the position where they're ordered? I.e., 3 characters have score x (but are still ordered), would it make more sense to put them all at the same position, or at the position where they're placed? Those ties aren't broken alphabetically. They're put in an actual order that doesn't appear to be arbitrary. Ryxis (talk) 22:01, 26 March 2014 (EDT)

If they're listed as a tie, we should list them as a tie (so MK would be at placing 3-5). We did this back when SSBM's beta 10th tier list (the last list with much ties) was the most recent, so we should do it here too. Toomai Glittershine The Chronicler 10:01, 27 March 2014 (EDT)

Am I the only one around here who thinks Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon should be ranked seperately on Brawl's tier list?

Me personally, I think it's the best of ideas :) GET ON IT, SBR! 86.174.94.2 03:28, 4 April 2014 (EDT)

Please read SW:TALK and the notice at the top of this page. Miles (talk) 03:52, 4 April 2014 (EDT)

Talk pages are not to be used to post your own opinions on the subject of the article. Awesome Cardinal 2000 17:35, 4 April 2014 (EDT)

Re: Project M Tier list

So I know that this has been discussed previously a few months ago in "Project M Tier List" and the answer was a deliberate "No". But why not include it on this page? I realize that Project M isn't an official Nintendo game as it's a hack but at the same time tier lists aren't even official to Nintendo. Just asking for a bit more clarification thanks :D Nullatrum (talk) 18:04, 4 June 2014 (EDT)

The key here is not that PM isn't a real member of the series - the key is that a PMBR member specifically said that the PM list we have is "unofficial" and "not to be used", implying we should wait until the PMBR comes up with an official list beforehand. Toomai Glittershine The Incomprehensible 18:42, 4 June 2014 (EDT)

hi there, email me plz

my email is <email address removed>

ok wario at one time I saw was in 1st place, wtf? snake who is very good lost 2nd place and is at 6th which makes no sense and ice climbers? really??? also pichu in melee who is terrible for getting hurt is now not in last place anymore, wow you tournament nerds think you can beat anybody with meta knight, lol of course since he is so cheap.why do you guys keep changing the fricken list if you say that its right??? if seems you people have NO idea what you're talking about, lol. email me if you do k? :)—Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎71.35.21.213 (talk • contribs) 12:21, 14 June 2014‎

The reason why these changes within the years is because it is the Smash Back Rooms that made the tier lists to keep up with how well all the characters is doing in tournaments up to date. Also, sign your comments with ~~~~ and use proper grammar. Dots (talk) The Peaceful 12:24, 14 June 2014 (EDT)

First off, before you go about debating the tier list, it's for the best that you learn the basic nuances of grammar, spelling, and capitalisation; if you can't understand basic English, what makes you think you can understand the tier list?

Second off, very top of this page:

“

Discussion on this talk page should be limited to the content of the page, not to debate on the ordering of tiers, we report the tier lists, we don't decide them.

”

If you want to enlighten the world on how your views are correct, use this or this. Better yet, read this so that you won't go about making yourself look like an uninformed, clueless child as you debate something you clearly do not know a lot about.

Third off, the tier list changes because of how the metagame changes. Since you were presumably busy bitching instead of doing this thing I like to call "basic research of a subject so that I don't look like an uninformed, clueless child in a discussion", I'll post a quote from the page that you obviously have not read:

“

In response to the fact that the tier list changes, pro-tiers state that the anti-tiers' argument does not weigh against the existence of tiers, because the tier list must change as the metagame changes and new strategies previously unknown are discovered; while an individual tier list may not stay accurate forever, as explained in the previous paragraph, it does not discredit the existence of tiers.

”

Fourth off, sign your comments with four tildes. Seriously, the unsigned template is a pain in the ass to post, so try to save me some trouble, okay?

I think that's about all.

Have a nice day.

--- Monsieur Crow, Author Extraordinaire, 12:30, 14 June 2014 (EDT)

LOL

It still doesn't make any sense that wario was once in 1st place. Email me why did you guys remove it? Seriously?71.35.21.213 18:46, 17 June 2014 (EDT)

For your own safety. Posting controversial opinions and then your e-mail is quite the dangerous move.

Oh, and this is still not a place to discuss the validity of tier lists. Please take your inquiries elsewhere. --Timson622222 (talk) 19:57, 17 June 2014 (EDT)

Why is Pokémon Trainer as a whole ranked on one slot?

Surely Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard should each be ranked seperately, right? 109.156.133.214 12:14, 21 August 2014 (EDT)

Because people have difficulty sticking to one PT Pokémon. Like Pokémon change automatically when one dies. Also we do not come up with the tier list, Smashboards does. ZeldaStarfoxfan2164 (talk) is bad for me 12:19, 21 August 2014 (EDT)

You can't use one separately throughout an entire legit match. Along with being forced to switch after losing a stock, the stamina gimmick is also a huge factor; it pretty much requires you to switch at times so you don't remain extremely weak. Scr7(talk · contribs) 12:20, 21 August 2014 (EDT)

Idk if this belongs here or whatever but it's still important

So on my userpage I have tiers based on how good I am at a character, and I made one for SSB4 (with anticipation of newcomers). But when I clicked on Sheik's icon to get to her page, it took me to Sheik (SSB4-U), which, obviously, isn't a page. The icons are named "File:SheikIconSSB4-U" (with Sheik replaced with other names, obviously), so to make the tier work, you have to put "SSB4-U" as the game. Which also affects the link. So, long story short/TL;DR, can we either 1) rename the icons to be just SheikIconSSB4 (which is unlikely, because we'll probably have icons from the 3DS version eventually) or 2) make redirects like Sheik (SSB4-U) or Bowser Jr. (SSB4-U)? The latter is a lot of work, and I would've done it without asking, but I wanted to make sure they weren't going to be deleted for being unnecessary. ...a new Nuttais approaching... 21:40, 27 August 2014 (EDT)

SSB4 Tier

SSB4's been out for a while now. Where's the tier list for that? Pgj1997 (talk) 17:44, 18 September 2014 (EDT)

It took several months for Brawl to get its first tier list. Be patient. Toomai Glittershine The Chronicler 17:46, 18 September 2014 (EDT)

I think that the community should wait until Apex 2015 before starting up a tier list. A week is definitely not a while. Scr7(talk · contribs) 17:47, 18 September 2014 (EDT)

You know, I wonder the same question. But I don't really care about tiers (not that much of a competitive player myself); that's not saying I think all characters are equal. Aidan the Intermediate Gamer (talk) 20:59, 29 September 2014 (EDT)

One-sided Controversy Section

The controversy section seems to be heavily pro-tier. Would it not be better to provide both sides of the argument? I'm not pro- or -anti- tier, but in the name of fairness, it would be a lot better to provide a pro- paragraph and an anti- paragraph, neither of which try to refute the other. 75.105.227.219 14:07, 1 November 2014 (EDT)