Talk:List of minor third-party universes

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Dependent universes

I think this section is pretty dicey as-is, but if it's going to be here it really needs to be limited to direct, objective, non-speculative representation (e.g. something like Doki Doki Panic is fine because that specific game is an unrelated game that got absorbed into Mario retroactively, Fortune Street is fine because the arrangements originate from that game directly, Marvel VS Capcom is fine because Sakurai explicitly confirmed he borrowed the move from it). Representation that is indirect at best or otherwise an homage/inspiration rather than literal rep really shouldn't be here. Bringing up a few specific examples that jump out to me:

• Ehrgeiz - I mostly object to this one because we know for a fact Cloud's animations/moves were designed from scratch. (he was specifically asked about if he borrowed them from Dissidia, but he denied that and Ehrgeiz is not brought up at all) "This move looks like that move" is a huge speculative rabbit hole when a lot of it is a standard result of "there are only so many ways to depict Cloud and Sephiroth faithfully and only so many ways you can swing a sword".
• Final Fight - I think this is a debateable one but a great example of why things should be more nailed down. Cody did debut in Final Fight but his artwork explicitly depicts his appearance in Street Fighter Alpha 3 and he's credited as a Street Fighter character. IMO what would make this "dependent" would be if he was billed as being from Street Fighter, but used artwork from Final Fight. But his appearance in Smash is wholly based on his role in SF, there is nothing strictly from Final Fight. This and the below just feel like they're getting too close into "parent universe/sub-universe" trivia which is a huge hot potato.
• Megami Tensei - Strictly speaking, TMS#FE isn't a Megami Tensei parent universe game so it shouldn't belong here. Tetrakarn and Makarakarn originated in SMT but are standard moves in Persona and are clearly their Persona 5 incarnations as used in Persona 5. Nothing is specifically from the parent franchise. To me this is again kind of a general "sub-universe" sort of thing, it's implicit that anything spun off from a larger franchise may have elements grandfathered in without necessarily representing them. It'd be like if we counted DK throwing barrels as representing Mario. There was a trivia I nixed a while ago that tried to attribute Final Fantasy 1's Black Mages as originating Elvis from Bravely Default II which is a related example of something that is way too many degrees of separation.
• Michael Jackson's Moonwalker - I shouldn't have to explain why this is a stretch.
• Pulseman - Inspirations are a can of worms we really shouldn't get into, especially when they become standard franchise elements. Volteccer itself is a Tekkaman reference, case in point.
• Strider - Same as above. The Slash Claw is inspired by and an homage to Strider, it's not a literal representation of Strider's Cypher. Meanwhile the Hadoken in MMX is explicitly identified inuniverse as the Hadoken, for example.

--Flippy (talk) 03:43, November 1, 2026 (UTC)