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Turtle Lover
Once I finally get good at art, then I can replace this ugly mofo.
Ultimate mains Incineroar, Bowser
Other Ultimate
Pokémon Trainer
SSB4 mains Bowser, Pac-Man
Other SSB4
Villager, Wii Fit Trainer
Skill Super Smash Bros. 4 Casual
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Casual
Additional info
Location USA USA

Hi! I'm known as Turtle Lover on most social media platforms, but I call myself SuperSmashTurtles here just for the heck of it. I've been an editor of this wiki since about mid-to-late 2015. I'm also on MarioWiki, Bulbapedia, and Nookipedia, although I'm a lot more active here than I am on any of those Wikis.


I've been an avid fan of the Super Smash Bros. series ever since around 2006 or 2007 when I played Super Smash Bros. Melee. I'll admit that, aside from Mario and Pokémon, I never even heard of any of the characters or series in the game (Nope, not even Zelda). As a youngling, I only known whatever was on Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, or Disney Channel/Toon Disney, and even when it came to video games, I mostly got shoddy licensed-based games for the Game Boy Advance or PlayStation 2.

However, due to my new interest for Melee, I soon discovered this series called History Behind Super Smash Bros. Melee, which dealt in teaching about the origins of certain aspects in the game, such as characters and their movesets, stages and elements within them, and items and how they worked.

Because of it, I soon became a major Nintendo fan, and thanks to Melee and Brawl's tactic(?) of representing smaller or obscure series, it led me to become interested in anything Nintendo-published and considering if it has a chance to be acknowledged in a Smash or not.

My Sandboxes

Here is a list of sandboxes that I have created.

Stat Tracking

  • Smash Bros. Universe Statistics: A list of every universe represented in the Super Smash Bros. series that orders them by what Smash game they debuted in, as well as some statistics and Chronicle-exclusive universes.
  • Major characters by their debut role: A list of roles every major character (fighters, summon characters, and enemies/bosses) had before their more major roles in the series.
  • Major characters by their debut game: A similar idea to the above sandbox, but instead lists the debut game(s) of every major character (fighters, summon characters, and enemies/bosses).
  • List of entities that skipped an installment: A list of characters, certain objects, or certain alter-egos that make no appearance in certain Super Smash Bros. installments.
  • Statistics: A list of statistics between several in-game scenarios, such as Event Matches, Spirit battles, Classic Mode routes, and Event Tourneys.

Just For Fun


  • List of Chronicle universes: A list of universes that are only represented in the Super Smash Bros. series via a listing on the Chronicle in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.
  • List of characters who don't appear in-game: A list of characters who appear in the Super Smash Bros. series, but do not have a gameplay-related role nor appear as a collectible of any kind.
  • List of mentioned characters: A list of characters who don't make any appearance in a certain Smash installment, but have been mentioned at least once in said game.
  • Super Smash Bros. 64 Official Character Poll: A list of the Top 20 most requested characters according to a poll on the official Japanese website for the original Super Smash Bros., as well the extended list that includes the characters who received at least two votes.

Thoughts on Smash Newcomer Reveals

Here are my thoughts on certain newcomers during their reveals. I'm only gonna do the newcomers from Smash 4 onwards since I was not familiar with almost any of the newcomers of the prior 3 games.

Also, please note that some of the reasonings I had for doubting/being against certain characters being added are opinions I had in the past and may not hold today. These opinions are still written down as I wanna be as honest as I can and I do not support the idea of sugarcoating the truth just to appease those who hold a vastly different opinion.

Smash 4 Newcomers

  • Villager: I was actually spoiled by their inclusion before I saw the E3 2013 presentation because on YouTube I saw some video thumbnail that had male Villager on it, although I couldn't really tell if it was Smash 4. Anyway, I didn't really think much of them at first, but I did grew to like them when I first played them in the Smash 3DS demo. Also, pink-haired girl > No. 1 Shirt boy. FITE MEH Qò0óQ
Fun fact: Before they were revealed, I actually had this Happy Tree Friends-styled Animal Crossing fan-fic idea (despite never playing an Animal Crossing game at the time) where a male human villager was a psychotic serial killer, not too dissimilar to the "Killager" meme (although in my fic, he was possessed by a hostile spirit rather than naturally being one).
  • Mega Man: Despite never playing a single Mega Man game, I did acknowledge his strong association with Nintendo and was satisfied when he did get included.
Fun fact: I actually somehow thought his silhouette was Astro Boy for a second.
  • Wii Fit Trainer: Like many others, I thought their inclusion was a joke when I first read about it. Needless to say, they became my favorite addition in the game solely because of how ridiculous of a choice they were.
  • Rosalina & Luma: When she got revealed, I actually had no recollection of a Direct happening that day. Instead, I found her out via her reveal trailer being posted onto Miiverse. She was a character I never thought about appearing in Smash, and she was definitely a pleasant surprise.
  • Little Mac: Ever since I first saw him in Brawl during his Assist Trophy days, I thought "Man! That guy would definitely fit into Smash.". He's honestly the only "Assist-turned-fighter" I'm really satisfied with. Not much else to say, he's just a great addition, even if his reputation isn't exactly the best (but to be honest, I could care less about the competitive scene of Smash).
  • Greninja: Now here's a character I was way more familiar with. When X & Y were first revealed, Froakie was instantly my favorite of the Kalos Starters, yet it seemed to be the least popular of the trio. I never understood why, since I found Chespin to be rather ugly and Fennekin to be forgettable (On the bright side, Chespin did get a whole lot better with its final evolution. Can't really say the same about Fennekin, though). While it still remained my favorite Starter of the trio even after the final evolutions got revealed, I never actually thought about it joining Smash. Heck, I never thought they'd include a Starter Pokémon that wasn't from Gen 1, and Gen 6 didn't seem to have a "Lucario"-type character like Gen 5 did with Zoroark, so I wasn't sure who they would pick. Needless to say, I was pleasantly surprised by its inclusion (and yes, I did think the silhouette was Mewtwo at first)
  • Mii Fighter: To be honest, I don't really have much to say about these guys other than it was kinda surprising that they weren't playable a lot sooner. Although the addition of costumes based on certain characters is a very neat addition, even if some of them are overhyped as hell. And no, I am NOT giving out my thoughts on costumes such as Sans or Cuphead. It's either I give my thoughts on all of the Mii Costumes or none of them, and since there's way too many to list, that's gonna be a big no from me.
  • Palutena: Like Rosalina, this was a character I never really thought about for Smash. Unlike Rosalina, I have actually seen other people suggest her to be playable. I was kinda indifferent towards the idea, since I had no idea what moveset they would give her. Come the E3 2014 presentation, and I was very satisfied with how they handled her.
  • Pac-Man: Surprisingly, this was a character where I've seen more people against the idea of him in Smash than people who support him, and I've never been able to figure out exactly why. My possible reasonings were:
1. Some people wanted a different character from Namco like Lloyd Irving from the Tales series or KOS-MOS from the Xenosaga series, and had the mindset that no third-party company would have more than one character playable.
2. Others feared that Namco would've required the Smash team to use his much-reviled Ghostly Adventures design.
3. Another group only knew about his iconic "wedge-shaped" form and thought that would make a "stupid addition".
Regardless of the complaints, I was so happy that they chose Pac-Man as the Namco rep, and I was especially relieved that they went with his Classic look rather than any of his (honestly unappealing) designs since Pac-Man Party. But my favorite part about him was how he didn't just bring his own series with him, but a whole bunch of other Namco properties. Overall, Pac-Man remains as my favorite third-party fighter in the entire Super Smash Bros. series.
  • Robin and Lucina: When it was revealed that both Robin and Lucina would join the cast, but not Chrom, I was pretty confused and a little salty. I did eventually warm up a little to Robin, but I still didn't understand Lucina, especially since Chrom apparently got cut for being "another blue-haired swordsman in the lines of Marth and Ike". Like, doesn't Lucina still fit that criteria? If you're gonna argue that "she's female", there were much better female fighter additions in the game.
Fun fact: Robin is the only avatar character outside of Mii games who I've made to look more like me and even named after myself. I usually try to avoid self-inserts in games and only use my real name if the avatar has no official name, though not always (Such as Selene in the Alolan Pokémon games: I didn't name her Selene since it wasn't established as her common name by the fandom and I really didn't want to name her "Moon" or my real name, so I went with "Luna", a name I knew was related to the moon and is an actual name).
  • Shulk: Believe it or not, I actually own all three games in the "Operation Rainfall trilogy" (which also includes The Last Story and Pandora's Tower). Despite this, Xenoblade Chronicles's the only one I've actually played so far. Like most fans of the game, I did want Shulk in, but assumed he wouldn't get a role higher than an Assist Trophy. It's a good thing I was actually interested enough in that Japan-only New Nintendo 3DS Direct to watch it and got caught off-guard when the Smash trailer for him was the first thing in said Direct. Unfortunately, he was the first character to be revealed after I discovered the infamous ESRB leak, so his inclusion didn't actually come off as that much of a surprise.
  • Dark Pit: Let's just say that my first impression of him being included wasn't exactly the kindest...
  • Bowser Jr.: While I did think of the possibility of him being playable, I just assumed he would be a bland hybrid of Bowser and Squirtle. Come Smash 3DS's release, and I was very surprised that they gave him the mini version of the Koopa Clown Car. Not only that, but all of his alternate costumes are of the Koopalings rather than any simple texture recolors. Overall, I was glad with how he turned out.
  • Duck Hunt: When I first saw this duo in the ESRB leak, I, like many other people, was baffled on how a character like that would even make it into Smash. But then again... Anyway, like with Pac-Man, my favorite part of them was the fact that they didn't just bring Duck Hunt content with them, but also Wild Gunman and Hogan's Alley content. Now if only they could include content from Gumshoe and To the Earth. Smash has plenty of Japan-exclusive franchises within it, at least give us one Western-exclusive franchise (And no, Elite Beat Agents doesn't count).
  • Ryu: I'll be honest, I'm absolutely horrid at traditional fighting games, so I never bother with Street Fighter or any other game of its kind. Anyway, when I first heard about the datamine that revealed that him and Roy would be coming as Smash 4 DLC, I was hoping it was referring to Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden since we already got a Capcom fighter and putting in a character from a fighting game into Smash seemed rather farfetched (And no, Punch-Out!! does not count as a fighting game). Despite this, I am pretty okay with his inclusion.
  • Cloud: I was pretty surprised about Cloud's reveal, and I thought he won the Fighter Ballot (which of course, wasn't actually the case), but I didn't really care for him all that much as I found him to be a predictable choice for a Final Fantasy rep. And since his series is extremely lacking in collectibles and music, I honestly could care less if he got cut. please don't crucify me
Fun fact: I actually first learned about Cloud (and the Final Fantasy series in general) through Kingdom Hearts, since I was much more of a "cartoon" guy as a kid than a "video game" guy.
  • Corrin: It's no surprise that I did not see them coming at all, especially since their game only came out 6 months in Japan before their reveal (which honestly makes Sakurai's excuse for not including an ARMS or Xenoblade 2 rep at launch rather weak). They looked pretty cool and unique, but I was rather miffed how Fire Emblem got more fighters than much more iconic franchises like Zelda.
  • Bayonetta: Do I really need to say if I found her inclusion surprising or not? Since I actually watched the Japanese version of the Direct first, I didn't recognize her voice and thought it might be Medusa from Kid Icarus or something. I may have thought of the idea of Bayo being playable, but I just assumed she would be too raunchy and risqué for Smash and trying to censor her would ruin the appeal of the character. A brilliant choice overall, I must say.

Ultimate Newcomers

  • Inkling: Like many others, I pretty much expected these guys to appear in the next Smash installment. I expected them to appear as DLC fighters in Smash 4, but I suppose it was too late to add them. *cough* Anyway, like with Villager, don't have much else to say about them. They're decent additions, overall.
  • Daisy: To be honest, I don't really have much of an opinion on her. She got revealed and I was like "Oh, that's cool.". Although I do wish they'd base her moveset more on the spin-off games (since she basically only appears in them and hasn't appeared in the mainline Super Mario series since the first Super Mario Land) rather than make her a full clone if we do get another installment.
  • Ridley: I'm just gonna be blunt here, I was on the side who did not want Ridley in. However, this wasn't because I thought he was "too big" (After all, Olimar still got in despite being "too small" I find the idea of Kirby only being 8 inches tall to be absolute bs considering characters like Adeleine and Samus Aran's cameo in Kirby's Dream Land 3). I just didn't like the idea of him being scaled down at all (and no, I didn't take his appearance in the original Metroid into account since I excused his size there was due to technical limitations). Even right now, the way he was modeled and designed in Ultimate just makes me massively uncomfortable. That said, congratulations to all the people who did want him in after two decades of pure torture.
  • Simon and Richter: Ever since they revealed that Snake would return in Ultimate, I and pretty much everyone else was expecting a Castlevania character to make it in, with the most common guess being Simon Belmont. What I didn't expect, however, was that not only would Castlevania get a second fighter, but that second fighter happened to be Richter. Honestly, if I had thought of a second Castlevania rep, I would've expected them to go with Trevor (not only because he was the star of the Netflix series, but also because he was the protagonist of the third game of the original Disk System/NES trilogy). While a predictable choice for a second Konami franchise, I do think it's a better franchise from them to represent in Smash than Metal Gear.
  • Chrom: *bangs hands on desk even though I only ever use my laptop on my bed* Thank. You. The Awakening trinity is finally complete! I can finally die in peace now!
In all seriousness though, it's good to see that the Echo Fighter gimmick finally allowed Chrom to be included in the roster without any of that "too many blue-haired swordsmen" hoopla. Although I do question the decision to make him Roy's Echo. Ike would've made a little more sense since A.: Chrom does have access to an Aether ability in Awakening; B. Chrom seems closer to being a tough guy like Ike than a semi-stalky boy like Roy; and C. Awakening has a party member named Priam who claims to be the ancestor of Ike, whereas no character (discounting the heroes from older games) in Awakening has no relation to Elibe (as far as I'm aware).
  • Dark Samus: Not gonna lie, I actually had no idea she was such a highly requested character in the West. I didn't think many people would want her since she is a "dark clone" of a Nintendo character (and especially after Dark Pit's very sour reception), but the Echo Fighter gimmick did seem to make people hate clones a lot less, so she wouldn't have gotten much flack regardless anyway. While it's pretty cool that she got in, I am disappointed that she's an almost exact copy of the original Samus when her Assist Trophy role in Smash 4 showed her using moves that Samus definitely cannot use. Not sure about the homing energy balls, but the other two could've at least been incorporated easily.
  • King K. Rool: While I did acknowledge how immensely requested he was, I wasn't really familiar enough with the Donkey Kong platformer series to really care for him all that much. I guess another factor for my indifference towards him was that I was kinda sick of the idea that every "Original 8" (or "Original 10") universe should have at least one villain, especially since the liberties people took led the idea to becoming rather flawed (such as using Bowser Jr. as the Yoshi villain despite never appearing in a Yoshi game, the Kirby "villains'" debatable statuses as villains, and using Mewtwo as the Pokémon villain even though it was only ever one in one movie). That being said, congratulations to all the people who wanted him in.
  • Isabelle: Despite being an avid New Leaf player, I was never really all that attached to Isabelle. It's probably most likely because I actually have two save files based on the human characters from the Animal Crossing movie (with Yu being mayor), but I just end up always playing as Ai. But it's also because of her voice. I just don't like the Animalese voices in New Leaf, but especially the Peppy villager voice. That extra squeal just grates on my ears, so much so that I turn the volume all the way down whenever a character with that voice speaks. Doesn't help either that New Leaf was the first installment to remove the option to turn off voices entirely (At least the voices in New Horizons seem to be tolerable this time, so maybe I'll like her more in that game).
Anyway, back on-topic, with how often she appeared in Animal Crossing media ever since her debut, as well as being the only other Animal Crossing racer in Mario Kart 8 besides Villager, my only reaction to her becoming playable in Smash was just a flat-out "Meh". I also don't buy Sakurai's reasoning for not making her an Echo Fighter as you'll see below. At least her trailer was worth if for the announcement of an Animal Crossing Switch game.
  • Ken: With Richter proving that a single third-party franchise can have more than one playable character, it was pretty guaranteed that Ryu's fellow rival would make it in as an Echo Fighter for him, and I had no problem with that at all. I was, however, surprised by the fact that, upon further analysis, he's actually more of a semi-clone rather than a full clone. So why is Isabelle not an Echo Fighter again, Sakurai?
  • Incineroar: Strap in folks, because this one I have the most things to say about.
Back when Sun and Moon were first announced, I already found the Starter trio to be a huge improvement over Kalos' trio. Despite this, Popplio was the only one I really liked (and of course it was the most hated Starter ;M;). I found Rowlet a little too bland and while Litten did have a cool design, it failed to grab me personality-wise. However, come the mid-evolutions, and let's just say that I wasn't satisfied with how Popplio's teenage form turned out, so I basically switched to Torracat since it's the only one I didn't dislike. While I did like it, I didn't exactly love it, and it felt more like an "emergency choice" since there still were the final evolutions left to be revealed. And when they were finally revealed, I was overjoyed with how Primarina turned out. I loved it so much, that I knew I had to switch back to Popplio. But then I looked at Incineroar, and all I can say is: How do I love Incineroar but not Delphox? (And Cinderace. I don't like Pokémon that are designed to appear fully-clothed, okay?) It was a difficult choice, but I ultimately went with Litten when I got my copy of Moon (At least I still got to pick Popplio in Ultra Moon).
When the teaser trailer for Ultimate first dropped, even though I didn't really want it to be included, I pretty much accepted that Decidueye would be the Gen 7 rep for Ultimate since it would complete a potential "trio" of fully-evolved Starter Pokémon that included the Fire-type Charizard and Water-type Greninja, and not many people expected the Pokémon Trainer (let alone Squirtle and Ivysaur) to return. Boy, were we wrong. And with Charizard rejoining their team, that made it hard to group it with the "Fully-evolved Starter trio" when it's already regrouped with its original trio, so Incineroar did become a much more valid choice. Come the November 2018 Smash Direct, and Incineroar was ultimately revealed to be the Gen 7 rep. If my infobox is anything to go by, I think you can figure out how I feel about it.
As for which Grass-type Starter I would choose to complete the "Fully-evolved Starter trio": While I could just pick Rillaboom (which I would be absolutely fine with since I find the other two fully-evolved Galarian Starters to be rather bleh WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO POOR SOBBLE?!!!), I actually would like there to be a Grass-type Starter Pokémon that gains the Dark-typing for its final evolution (I'm leaning towards a vampire bat that's basically like...well, a vampire), since both Greninja and Incineroar are part Dark-type, and it'd be pretty awkward if two playable fully-evolved Starter Pokémon shared a secondary-type, but the third one didn't. Also, I think they'd fit in nicely with the playable villains. I view Mewtwo as more of a neutral anti-hero, even if Smash says otherwise. Heck, both Greninja and Incineroar have been paired up with the villains a few times.
  • Piranha Plant: I don't really have much to say about it other than that it's a funny addition. But I will tell you a story instead.
Before this guy was revealed, I actually had this one dream where Blooper from the Mario franchise was announced to be a playable fighter. There was some other weird stuff in it, too. Right before the Blooper reveal, there was this segment of EdbotnikThe's version of Yoshi in some 3D shoot 'em up, and the boss's defeat was what revealed Blooper. Before that even, there was a segment that featured King Dedede and King K. Rool on a table in a mostly darkened room lightened with what I believe appeared to be a spotlight, and then came what I can only describe as a "Big Chungus" version of Fox McCloud, giving both of them an angry look (I believe this was also before that scene became a meme). i think i actually like this version of fox mccloud more than the actual fox mccloud. i just find him to be the least interesting kind of furry okay?
  • Joker: While I was aware of the Persona series, the only installment I was semi-familiar with was Persona 4, and even then, when it came to an Atlus franchise in Smash, I would've gone with Shin Megami Tensei given its stronger association with Nintendo. Since I completely skipped out on the 2018 Game Awards Cuz I could care less about award shows, I've only first heard of Joker via an edit on the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate page on this very Wiki, and I was only thinking of The Joker from the DC Universe and assumed it was just a vandal edit. Boy, was I wrong. He is a neat addition, though I still would've preferred Megami Tensei content.
  • Hero: With how very lowly-represented Final Fantasy was, I wasn't even sure if Square Enix would allow another property of theirs to be in Smash. Come the E3 2019 Direct, and I was proved wrong, and the fact that it wouldn't just be one protagonist was a nice surprise. Not only that, but we actually get spirits that aren't just of the fighters and more than 2 songs...which all use the MIDI versions instead of the orchestral versions and are limited to to 2 songs per game. Hrnnnnnnng... Anyway, Hero's an overall nice addition, not much else to say.
  • Banjo & Kazooie: This was the franchise of the first Fighters Pass I was the most familiar with, though I admittedly never played a game. I knew very well how much of a connection these guys had with Nintendo, it's just that, with Microsoft's buyout of Rare, I assumed they weren't possible as MS was still a competitor in the console market. Even when the head of MS said he would be fine with the bear-and-bird duo being in Smash, I still took that with a grain of salt. Come the E3 2019 Direct, and you had no idea how overjoyed I was (although I did get spoiled when I was trying to search for the video on YouTube. stupid morning timeslot). Quite honestly the third-party fighter that deserved to be in Smash the most.
  • Terry: Despite acknowledging SNK's popularity (and even having experience with an SNK franchise in the form of Metal Slug), I honestly didn't think we would even get an SNK character so soon, especially before other companies like Koei Tecmo. Come the copyright leak, and I knew exactly which character of theirs would get in. I'll be honest, I had no opinion on Terry at first since I didn't know the Fatal Fury series all that well, but when his character presentation came, he instantly grew on me. And like with Pac-Man and Duck Hunt, my favorite aspect of him was that he didn't bring just his own series, but a whole set of other SNK franchises. Of the DLC fighters in the first Fighters Pass, while Banjo & Kazooie still are my favorite additions, Terry is my favorite character to play as.
  • Byleth: *sigh* Look, I don't hate Byleth. I do think they're one of the more interesting fighters from Fire Emblem. It's just that, coming from an expansion pass consisting mostly of new franchises that are a surprise in some way or another, Byleth just came off as a disappointing conclusion to the entire pass because they're yet another fighter from a franchise with a fighter list that ties with Pokémon and comes very close to Mario in quantity. A "meh" choice, to be quite frank.
  • Min Min: *bangs hands on my non-existent desk once again* THE "SPIRITS DECONFIRM" ARGUMENT IS FINALLY DEAD!!! THANK FREAKING GOD!!! *heavy sigh* Sorry about that. Anyway, I don't have much to say about Min Min. I personally wanted Spring Man to be the ARMS character just so the "Assist Trophies deconfirm" argument can finally be discredited, even with how unlikely it is, but Min Min is a fine addition, anyway.
  • Steve: Of course I was one of those people who got suckered into playing Minecraft at least once during its popularity, and while I didn't play it a whole lot, I did still enjoy it to some extent. As for when it came to Steve in Smash, I was more neutral towards the idea and thought he would get a Mii Swordfighter costume before actually becoming an actual playable fighter, but here we are now. He's an alright addition in my book, nothing much else to say tfw microsoft got a second rep before namco tho. Strangely enough, I was somehow able to correctly guess it was gonna be Steve the moment Mario got smashed through that wall (it was probably the textures on said wall or how they were shaped that convinced me).

A userbox I made, if you're interested

SuperSmashTurtlesUserboxIcon.png This user is a member of the Turtle Tribe.