King Dedede (PM)

King Dedede in Project M and Project+
Universe	Kirby
Base game appearance	Brawl
Moveset inspiration	King Dedede (SSBB)
Alternate costume	Samurai Dedede

King Dedede (known as simply Dedede in-game) is a playable character in the Brawl mod Project M and Project+. He has received speed and combo buffs though suffering from a removal of his chain-grabbing abilities.

King Dedede ranks 34th out of 41 on the official Project M tier list, near the top of the D tier. This is a significant drop from his position on the Brawl tier list, where he is ranked 12th out of 38. In the official Project+ tier list, he places 36th out of 42, placing in C+ tier.

Attributes

King Dedede is a character whose strengths lie in his offense. Every one of his attacks boasts speed, power, reach, or hitbox placement, giving him a powerful neutral and punish game. He also has great comboing ability, having combo starters such as his up throw and combo finishers such as his forward aerial. He also has superb camping abilities due to his aforementioned reach and hitbox placements, as well as his versatile Waddle Dee Toss. He also has a highly above average recovery thanks to his many jumps, the new airdodge physics, and his useful Super Dedede Jump. However, Dedede's biggest boon is his back aerial; despite it having less range than in Brawl, his higher air speed and the removal of hitstun canceling allow it to wall of pain better. It also maintains its minimal lag, long duration, power, and still has a favorable hitbox placement.

However, Dedede has numerous flaws, mainly in terms of defense. He is a very large target with slow mobility, making it easy to camp him out. He also has merely above average vertical endurance despite being a super heavyweight due to his average gravity and slightly above average falling speed. He also suffers from his recovery being somewhat predictable due to it mainly being linear. Dedede is also very easy to combo due to his aforementioned weight and size, as well as his gravity only being slightly lower than his falling speed.

Dedede overall fares worse in PM than Brawl as a result of the flaws created in the transition, as well as the significantly harsher environment which is no longer subject to his chainthrows.

Changes from Brawl to PM

King Dedede gained both buffs and nerfs from Brawl to PM. The buffs made him better offensively, but worse defensively, almost turning him into a glass cannon. Despite having received more buffs overall, he is considered to be worse relative to the cast due to the loss of his chain throw and many characters gaining new options to outclass his own.

Attributes

• King Dedede's air speed is significantly faster (0.658 → 0.9), no longer being the slowest, significantly improving his aerial approach and recovery in combination with Waddle Dee Toss and Super Dedede Jump's added movement versatility.
• King Dedede's air friction is lower (0.006 → 0.005).
• King Dedede falls much faster (1.95 → 2.25), although he falls much slower relative to the rest of the cast than in Brawl, going from the fastest to the 10th fastest fall speed. This comparatively worsens his vertical endurance and his ability to mix-up landings, but makes him less susceptible to combos relative to the cast than in Brawl (though on his own, the opposite is relatively true in practice within Project M's more combo-oriented environment).
• King Dedede's fast falling speed is drastically faster (2.73 → 3.3). This makes him less susceptible to juggling, and gives him a much better SHFFL.
• King Dedede's gravity is higher (0.0837 → 0.095).
• King Dedede's short hop is lower (jump force: 1.68 → 1.6). In combination with his higher gravity and falling speed, this improves his ability to hit opponents low on the ground and land more quickly with short hop aerials, but also hinders his ability to auto-cancel his aerials.
• King Dedede's full hop is higher (jump force: 2.4 → 2.6, jump height: 33.21906465 → 35.58).
• Number of midair jumps reduced (4 → 3), making it more difficult to land safely, and somewhat worsening his recovery and enforcing more use of Super Dedede Jump for recovering.
• King Dedede's traction is much higher (0.0484 → 0.07).
• King Dedede swims faster (0.08 → 0.108).
• King Dedede's feet hurtboxes are now ungrabbable, making it harder to grab him.
• Both rolls have less ending lag (FAF 33 → 32).
• Forward roll has a longer duration (frames 4-19 → 4-20).
• Spot dodge has a longer duration (frames 2-20 → 2-21).
• Spot dodge has a new animation where Dedede now moves out of the Z axis as soon as his intangibility has worn off, making his spot dodge much easier to punish.
• Air dodge has a much longer animation (40 frames → 50), significantly increasing the amount of time King Dedede cannot grab the ledge after using it.
• The removal of hitstun canceling both helps and hinders King Dedede. They make him even more susceptible to combos and remove his ability to momentum cancel, hindering his endurance (though he still has one of the best vertical endurances among the cast). However, they also improve his own previously somewhat minimal combo game outside of chain grabs, as well as benefiting from being able to DI non-tumbling knockback due to his large size and high falling speed making him particularly vulnerable to it in Brawl.

Ground Attacks

• Neutral attack:
  • The first hit has less startup lag with a longer duration (frames 12-13 → 11-13), with the hitbox coming out before King Dedede fully swings his hammer.
  • The first two hits have less ending lag (FAF 38 → 28 (hit 1), 28 → 25 (hit 2)).
    • This also reduces the window to execute each subsequent hit (30 frames (both) → 28/25).
  • The infinite's hammer head hitbox is smaller (7u → 5.7399836u).
• Forward tilt:
  • Forward tilt deals much more damage (6% (clean), 4% (late) → 12%/9%) with its knockback scaling not fully compensated (80 (handle) 100 (hammer head) → 70/80), and sends opponents at a lower angle (65° → 361°), making it much stronger and more effective at edgeguarding.
  • Forward tilt deals more shield damage (0 → 9 (clean), 6 (late)). When combined with its higher damage output and the universally increased shieldstun, this makes it both more effective at wearing down and relatively even safer on shield.
  • The hammer head hitbox is larger (4.5u (clean)/4u (late) 5.7399836u (both)), further increasing its already notoriously long disjointed range.
    • When combined with the changes to ledge grabbing and smaller recovery ledge sweetspots, this further improves forward tilt's effectiveness as an edgeguarding and ledge-trapping tool (though in certain matchups, this is mitigated by the reintroduction of ledgedashing).
• Up tilt:
  • Up tilt has less ending lag (FAF 40 → 34).
  • Up tilt now only grants intangibility to King Dedede's head as opposed to his whole body from frames 7-8, making it much easier to contest.
  • The universally increased falling speeds combined with the altered knockback formula hinder up tilt's KO potential against most characters.
    • However, this also improves its combo potential combined with its lower ending lag.
  • Up tilt has altered hitbox sizes, but its head hitbox is noticeably smaller (7u/7u/6u → 5.7399836u/7.38u/6.25u), along with it being positioned lower (Y offset: 7u → 6.579983u), reducing its effective range overall, especially above King Dedede.
• Down tilt:
  • Down tilt has smaller hitboxes (clean: 6u/6u/6u → 4.92u/4.92u/4.92u, late: 4u/4u/4u → 3.279983u/3.279983u/3.279983u), and they are positioned closer to King Dedede (Z offset: 4u/0u/-6u → 3.7599833u/0u/-5.639983u (clean), 2u/-2u/-8u → 1.8799833u/-1.8799833u/-7.5199833u (late)), reducing its range.
  • Down tilt can no longer trip opponents (40% chance → 0%).
• Dash attack:
  • Dash attack now gives King Dedede heavy knockback-based armor between frames 8-29, making it harder to challenge and improving its usage in approaching and hitting recoveries with hitboxes.
  • Dash attack's body hitbox is larger (5u → 6.9u) with its positioning altered (X/Y/Z offset: -4u/0u/-3u → 0u (all)), now fully covering King Dedede's body, while its head hitbox is positioned further and lower (X/Y/Z offset: -4u/0u/0u → 0u/2.9u/1u), improving its ability to hit opponents recovering below or hanging on the ledge.
  • Dash attack now has a weaker late hit from frames 30-35 which deals less damage (16%/14% → 10%).
• Forward smash:
  • King Dedede holds his hammer much further out during the move, noticeably increasing its range.
  • The early hit deals more damage (13% (early) → 16%).
  • The clean hit has a longer duration (frames 44-46 → 44-47).
  • The early and clean hits' hammer head hitbox is larger (4.7u (early), 5.7u (clean) → 6u (both)), further increasing its range.
  • The late hit has a shorter duration (frames 47-54 → 46/48-50), making it less effective at covering spot dodges, and increasing the move's relative ending lag.
  • The late hit now has a sweetspot on the hammer head that deals more damage (5% → 12%) and knockback (100 (base), 30 (scaling) → 40/70) than the previous sole late hit.
    • The new sweetspots are made up of two hitboxes: an upper hitbox that launches opponents vertically (70°) and a lower hitbox that meteor smashes opponents, increasing the move's edgeguarding potential against opponents recovering below or hanging on the ledge, combined with the changes to ledge grabbing and smaller recovery ledge sweetspots.
    • The new late hitboxes can also now hit aerial opponents unlike the previous late hit.
  • The late hitboxes can no longer reverse hit, now always sending opponents in the direction King Dedede is facing.
  • The previous late hit has less startup lag (frame 47 → 46).
  • The previous late hit has more knockback scaling (30 → 50) and now meteor smashes grounded opponents (80° → 270°).
  • The previous late hit now consists of one very large hitbox instead of four equally sized and spaced hitboxes (8u/8u/8u/8u → 15u), significantly increasing its range in front of and above King Dedede.
    • However, its hitbox placement was not fully compensated around King Dedede's body (Y offset: 4u/4u/4u/4u → 0u, Z offset: 0u/9u/18u/27u → 0u), decreasing its range closer to him.
  • The previous late hit now uses the kick hit sound effect instead of the "thowmp" hit sound effect.
• Up smash:
  • Up smash has less startup lag with a longer duration (frame 20-24 → 17-23), with its animation timing altered to have the hitboxes cover around King Dedede for longer during the swing.
  • Up smash has less ending lag (FAF 68 → 54).
  • Up smash deals much more damage (14% (sweetspots), 9% (sourspot) → 20%/17%) with its knockback scaling not fully compensated (95 (sweetspots), 96 (sourspot) → 79/80), improving its KO potential.
  • The hammer head hitbox is smaller (6u → 5.75u).
    • Despite this, King Dedede holds his hammer much further out during the move. When combined with its faster startup lag and altered animation speed, this drastically increases the move's range overall regardless.
  • The sourspot hitbox is larger (4u → 5.5u).
• Down smash:
  • Down smash has less ending lag (FAF 53 → 47).
  • The front half of the hitbox duration deals more damage (15% → 18%) with its knockback scaling not fully compensated (82 → 79), increasing its KO potential overall.
  • Down smash now consistently sends opponents behind Dedede (105°/80°/50° → 130°/125°/120°), allowing him to KO opponents more easily and making it harder to DI.
  • The hammer head hitbox is smaller (7u → 5.75u).
    • Despite this, King Dedede holds his hammer further out during the move, increasing the move's horizontal range overall regardless.

Aerial Attacks

• Neutral, forward, and back aerials have more landing lag (neutral: 15 frames → 22/11, forward: 30 frames → 32/16, back: 21 frames → 22/11), though this is heavily compensated by L-cancelling.
• King Dedede's increased air speed and the changes to hitstun and air dodging make forward aerial and back aerial more effective and consistent at wall of pain combos.
• Neutral aerial:
  • Neutral aerial has less ending lag (FAF 41 → 38).
  • Neutral aerial can no longer auto-cancel in a short hop due to Dedede's lower short hop, and higher gravity and falling speed.
  • Neutral aerial sends opponents at a consistent angle between the clean and late hits (60° (clean), 80° (late) → 75°). When combined with the changes to the game's mechanics, this significantly improves its combo potential.
  • Neutral aerial has larger hitboxes, especially the late hit (9u (clean), 5u → 11.08u (both)), now fully covering King Dedede's entire body during both halves.
    • Its vertical positioning was altered to compensate (Y offset: 12u → 8u).
• Forward aerial:
  • Forward aerial has less startup lag with a longer duration (frames 16-18 → 13-18), and with its animation timing altered to have the hitbox start directly below King Dedede and cover in front of and above him for longer during the swing.
  • Forward aerial has more ending lag (FAF 37 → 40).
  • Forward aerial auto-cancels later (frame 35 → 39), no longer doing so in a short hop in combination with King Dedede's lower short hop, and higher gravity and falling speed.
  • Forward aerial has more knockback scaling (90 → 100).
  • Forward aerial has smaller hitboxes overall (7.5u/4u/4u/4u → 5u/5u/3.2799833u/3.2799833u).
    • Despite this, King Dedede holds his hammer much further out during the move. When combined with its faster startup lag and altered animation speed, this drastically increases the move's range despite its smaller hitboxes, now being one of the largest aerials in the game.
      • The move's hitbox placements along the hammer have been altered to compensate (X offset: -2u/-6u/-12u/-18u → 16.5u/16.5u/9u/2.8199832u, Y offset: 0u/-3u/-3u/-3u → 0u/0u/0u/0u, Z offset: -4u/-3u/-2u/-1u → -2.6u/2.6u/0u/0u).
• Back aerial:
  • King Dedede can no longer perform two back aerials in a short hop due to his lower short hop, higher gravity and falling speed.
  • The late hit has a shorter duration (frames 9-25 → 9-21), now matching its animation.
  • Back aerial has much smaller hitboxes (clean 8.5u/8.5u → 5.534983u/5.534983u, late: 7u/7u → 4.92u/4.92u), and its inner hitbox is positioned closer to King Dedede (Z offset: 6u → 5.639983u), noticeably reducing its previous notoriously large range and disjoint.
  • Back aerial can no longer trip opponents (30% chance → 0%).
• Up aerial:
  • Up aerial now consists of a single clean and late hit instead of being a multihit attack. This removes the gaps between hits, makes it much more reliable at hitting overall, and improves its juggling potential.
    • It has a shorter total hitbox duration (frames 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24-25 → 10-13 (clean), 14-24 (late)).
  • Up aerial deals less maximum damage (multihits: 2%, final hit: 5%, total: 19% → 12% (clean)/9% (late)) with its knockback compensated (50 (base), 130 (scaling) → clean: 40/85, late: 30/85).
  • The uppermost front hitbox sends opponents at a lower angle (80° → 70°).
  • Up aerial has smaller hitboxes overall, particularly the hammer head hitboxes (multihits: 6u/6u/4u/4u, final hit: 6.5u/6.5u/5u/5u → clean hit: 5.7399836u/5.7399836u/4.51u/4.51u, late hit: 4.92u/4.92u/3.2799833u/3.2799833u), and its hitboxes are positioned closer (X offset: 17u/17u/9u/3u → 15.979983u/15.979983u/8.46u/2.8199832u, Z offset: -3u/6u/0u/0u → -1.8799833u/1.8799833u/0u/0u), reducing its range.
    • However, King Dedede holds his hammer higher during the attack, increasing its upwards range overall.
• Down aerial:
  • Down aerial has a shorter animation (50 frames → 41), decreasing the amount of time King Dedede cannot grab ledges after performing the move.
  • Down aerial has much less ending lag (FAF 48 → 38).
  • Down aerial has less landing lag (30 frames → 22/11).
  • Down aerial auto-cancels sooner (frame 44 → 34), now doing so in a short hop.
  • Down aerial now consists of five hits instead of seven.
    • This worsens its shield pressuring potential out of a full hop, but due to the universally increased shieldstun and the move's lower landing lag and now being able to auto-cancel from a short hop, it is more effective at shield pressuring from a short hop.
    • Each hit of down aerial lasts one frame longer, with the final hit having less startup lag (frame 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27 → 9-10, 13-14, 17-18, 21-22, 25-26), making the full attack execute faster.
      • This effectively shortens the move's total hitbox duration by a frame (19 frames → 18).
      • The two-frame gaps between each hit were not fully compensated for with their increased hitbox duration, relatively increasing the multihits following the first's startup lag, and effectively increasing the gaps between each hit (2 frames → 3).
      • The multihits deal more damage (2% → 3%).
      • The two upper multi-hitboxes have an altered angle (270° (both) → 260°).
      • The two upper multi-hitboxes can now hit aerial opponents.
      • Between the two upper multi-hitboxes, the lower one now takes priority over the higher one. However, this has no practical effect since they have the same attack properties.
      • The two lower multi-hitboxes have higher set knockback (20 → 50) and altered angles (60°/120° → 100° (both)).
  • The final hit deals less damage (5% → 3%) and knockback (50 (base), 140 (scaling) → 70/105), hindering its KO potential, and resulting in the move dealing 2% less damage if all hits connect despite the multihits' higher damage (17% → 15%).
    • Its lower power improves its combo potential.
  • The final hit's lowest front hitbox sends opponents at a lower angle (80° → 70°).
  • Down aerial has smaller hitboxes (multihits: 4u/4u/5.5u/5.5u → 3.28u/3.28u/4.8u/4.8u, final hit: 4u/4u/6.5u/6.5u → 3.28u/4u/5.33u/5.33u), and the hitboxes are positioned much closer to King Dedede, along with Dedede holding his hammer closer to him. This noticeably reduces the move's range, and making it a worse anti-juggling tool despite Dedede's higher gravity and falling speed.
  • Down aerial's attacking sound effect now matches up aerial's.

Throws/other attacks

• Grabs:
  • Standing grab has increased startup lag (frame 6 → 7) and ending lag (FAF 31 → 32).
  • Standing grab has smaller grabboxes (4u/4u/4u → 3.91u/3.91u/3.91u), and they are positioned closer to King Dedede (Z offset: 18u/13u/8u → 17u/13.5u/8.449984u), reducing its range.
  • Dash grab has smaller grabboxes (4u/4u/4u → 3.91u/3.91u/3.91u).
  • Dash grab's grabboxes are positioned further (Z offset: 15u/10u/5u → 16u/10.3u/5.199983u), marginally increasing its horizontal range despite its smaller grabboxes.
  • Pivot grab has more startup lag (frame 7 → 9).
    • However, its total duration was unchanged, decreasing its ending lag.
  • Pivot grab's grabboxes are positioned closer (Z offset: -22u/-15u/-8u → -20u/-13u/-6u), reducing its horizontal range.
• Forward throw:
  • Forward throw has more ending lag (FAF 38 → 39).
  • The throw deals more damage (throw: 6% → 8%, total: 12% → 14%) and knockback (70 (base), 80 (scaling) → 80/75).
• Back throw:
  • The collateral hitbox has more startup lag with a shorter duration (frames 16-18 → 17-18).
  • The collateral hitbox has an altered angle (361° → 45°).
  • The throw deals less damage (throw: 10% → 9%, total: 16% → 15%), no longer making it the most damaging throw in the game.
  • The throw has much higher knockback scaling (65 → 94), making it among the strongest throws in the game despite its lower damage.
• Up throw:
  • Up throw has more ending lag (FAF 40 → 41).
  • The collateral hitbox now launches bystanders vertically (361° → 90°).
  • Up throw has less base knockback (70 → 60). When combined with the changes to the game's mechanics, this makes it significantly better at following up into moves, and can even be used to chain grab fast-fallers.
• Down throw:
  • Down throw has less ending lag (FAF 42 → 36).
  • The throw sends opponents at a higher angle (20° → 32°) and has altered knockback (0 (base), 80 (set), 100 (scaling) → 50/80/40), now putting every character into tumble. This removes Dedede's ability to guarantee a chain grab with it, making it act more like how it did on lightweight characters in Brawl. As a result, it is a significantly inferior throw by comparison; no longer nullifying certain characters (though it is still highly effective at tech-chasing and setting up into forward tilt or an edgeguard).
• Edge attacks:
  • Edge attacks no longer deal set knockback (110 (set), 100 (scaling) → 70 (base)/50 (scaling)).
    • Fast edge attack:
      • Fast edge attack has an altered angle (45° → 361°).
    • Slow edge attack:
      • Slow edge attack has less intangibility (frames 1-51 → 1-43), no longer being intangible while the hitbox is active.
• Trip attack:
  • Trip attack has significantly more intangibility frames (frames 1-8 → 1-20).
  • Trip attack has more base knockback (60 → 80).

Special Moves

• Inhale:
  • King Dedede is now able to control his aerial drift while using Inhale in the air, further compounded by the changes to jumps carrying more horizontal momentum like in Melee and his faster air speed. This improves Inhale's mix-up potential, accuracy, and its ability to approach.
  • Inhale's windboxes are now unblockable, improving its ability to swallow shielding opponents.
  • Inhale's two middle windboxes have lower set knockback (50/30 → 30/20).
  • Aerial Inhale's grab and windboxes are positioned higher, making it easier to swallow opponents above and on platforms.
  • Inhale's star spit was made harder to button mash out of (star time reduction per input: 12 frames → 3).
• Waddle Dee Toss:
  • Waddle Dee Toss' throwing angles are much sharper and more varied from each other, with King Dedede throwing his minions much higher and lower when angled up and down, respectively. This overall significantly improves Waddle Dee Toss' accuracy and makes it a more versatile tool for stage control, edgeguarding, setting up follow-ups, or planting a minion close to Dedede to regrab it sooner.
  • Waddle Dee Toss' tilt-inputted tosses travel slower (especially Gordos) and cover less distance.
    • However, the shorter distance of tilt-inputted tosses along with the sharper throwing angles makes it easier to keep Dedede's minions closer to him to set up regrabs or throw them toward center stage, while the slower travel speed allows minions thrown upwards to stay airborne for longer to increase their hitbox active frames. The ability to smash throw minions also largely compensates for the tilt-throw's shorter distance, making it more beneficial overall.
  • Gordos can now be regrabbed, which is further complemented by their slower travel speed, making it possible to throw a Gordo multiple times to rack up massive damage.
  • Regrabbing a minion has significantly less ending lag (FAF 63 → 21 (grounded), 30 (aerial)).
  • Minions can now be regrabbed with air dodging. When combined with the reintroduction of directional air dodging, this gives it properties that distinguish it from a normal aerial regrab:
    • Regrabbing a minion while air dodging horizontally will cause King Dedede to travel in the direction the air dodge was angled (known as a "Waddle Dash"). When combined with regrabbing a minion's significantly lower ending lag and Dedede's much faster air speed, this can be combined to allow him to move forward at a very fast rate if he repeatedly jumps into and throws one forward, significantly improving his mobility, recovery, camping ability, and approach.
    • Regrabbing a minion while air dodging in place or vertically will halt Dedede's momentum, compared to a normal aerial regrab which maintains it. This improves the move's movement mixups and throw arcs.
      • Additionally, a normal aerial minion regrab can now only be done with a grab button input rather than alternatively with a normal attack button input. This makes it much easier to perform aerial moves near minions without accidentally regrabbing them.
• Super Dedede Jump:
  • Super Dedede Jump now has a hitbox during the rising portion from frames 23-32 (6% damage, 50 base, 100 scaling, 65° launch angle).
  • Canceling Super Dedede Jump negates Dedede's vertical momentum faster, and the canceling animation can grab ledges much sooner (frame 29 → 19), giving the move more versatility for recovering and making it much easier to grab the ledge.
  • Super Dedede Jump will no longer cause King Dedede to go through a significantly longer delayed landing animation if the move was canceled too close to the ground, improving its landing and recovery.
  • Super Dedede Jump descends faster.
  • Super Dedede Jump will no longer be interrupted if King Dedede collides with a ceiling, improving its recovery potential from below the stage.
  • Super Dedede Jump now has heavy knockback-based armor during its startup before rising between frames 7-21 if initiated on the ground.
  • Super Dedede Jum