User talk:CanvasK/Archive 1

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4x improved escape

Hey, I was wondering how you arrived at the 0.1x figure for fourfold improved escape? It shouldn't be possible to achieve, since there are no primary spirits with that ability. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 18:30, January 27, 2020 (EST)

In World of Light there is Improved Escape in the Skill Tree, which I have found to be 100% identical to the support skill. I enabled it and equipped 3 supports and broke my shield (almost anything that takes inputs to get out of is affected). I should have written down my results for it but that appears to be the only thing I forgot to save the frame data for.

Perhaps I should mark 'only possible in WoL' somewhere? CanvasK (talk) 18:35, January 27, 2020 (EST)

Fair enough, but I would recommend noting that it's only achievable in WoL using the skill tree, as having it in the Spirit article implies that a spirit team alone can achieve it. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 18:37, January 27, 2020 (EST)

I'll put a rollover for it. It isn't the only ability like that, so I'll make sure to mark those as well. CanvasK (talk) 18:39, January 27, 2020 (EST)

Defense & Aura

I wanted to ask if you knew or could find out how the Defense stat affects Lucario's Aura ability in Ultimate? I'm part of a dedicated amiibo community and could use all the information you're able to find on the specifics of amiibo stats, growth, and strength; I came to you right away since it seems like you have direct access to the game's language.Bones Malone (talk) 22:27, March 3, 2020 (EST)

I sadly do not have direct access to the code, I just follow a lot of people who do (I'd love to have access but other people use my Switch and I don't want to brick it for them). Most of the information I know about amiibo I've already listed on the FP page. That being both the FP's inherent attack and defense scale from 0.9-1.3 linearly, and spirit stats follow 1+(stat×3.077/10000)(negative stats do nothing).

I'd be more than happy to test things. I don't imagine Defense affecting Lucario's Aura outside of making it take longer for them to reach max, but it would be something I can test. Was there anything specific you wanted me to test?--CanvasK (talk) 22:39, March 3, 2020 (EST)

That alone is fascinating information. So are you saying the game reads a negative stat on an FP as a 1.00 multiplier regardless of how 'big' the negative actually is? That has some drastic implications. But yes, it's my goal to try and find the most efficient stat spread that might end up being specific to Lucario, to balance Defense gains with Aura boosts. Bones Malone (talk) 14:41, March 10, 2020 (EDT)

If my testing is correct and I remember correctly, yes. Essentially the game checks if Stat < 0, if it is then Stat=0. And if my stat-to-multiplier formula is correct then the highest multiplier you can get for either atk or def is 2.5385. If you don't have any DLC or limited time spirits, then Spring Man should get you the most atk (ratio of about 0.75:0.25, gives a total atk multiplier of 2.154) and Absolutely Safe Capsule for def (0:1 ratio, def multiplier of 2.5385).

This is only my opinion, but I would think maybe a 0.4:0.6 ratio would work, 0.45:0.55 for more damage, or 0.375:0.625 if you want max aura strats (which gives ×1.6 attack). This would give you more defense to survive with, and the attack is high enough to even out with max aura. I would also recommend either Trade-Off Attacks Up or Trade-Off Abilities. The former gives ×1.23 attack with only 1 slot and also gives you 30% damage for aura; the latter gives less attack (×1.18) but also gives ×1.2 defense and ×1.2 speed along with 30% damage. The other slots can be whatever (or duplicates, higher values can be found on Spirits#Spirit_Effects), and if you know you opponent's amiibo, maybe add a Resistance effect that counters their attacks. (I did a small test the other day, and defense has no effect on aura. Just makes it take longer)--CanvasK (talk) 18:18, March 10, 2020 (EDT)

I personally have been enjoying Physical Attack, Aura Attack, and Trade-Off Attack, but that's on an entirely Attack focused build. Knowing Defense points aren't a death sentence for the max Aura bonus, I may switch it up. Let me give you slightly better context; based on the formulas you updated the Figure Player page with, I updated my stat tables, and wanted to try and account for whatever formula affects Aura. Though without the formula, we'll still be doing guess work. All the same, I appreciate your assistance greatly.Bones Malone (talk) 01:02, March 11, 2020 (EDT)

I can't say I understand what your table is for exactly, though I imagine it is designed so that you know the layout. I'm guilty of that. Most of my spreadsheets don't make sense to others unless I make a document for them, and each spreadsheet has a different format based on my mood at the time.

Anyways, 'whatever formula affects Aura'? I think I know what you are thinking and I don't blame you for thinking that. Aura (the mechanic) is something solely unique to Lucario. Aura (the effect) is for attacks that cause the blue flames (which, yeah, is mainly Lucario). Aura Attack/Resist only affects Aura (effect), not Aura (mechanic). At no point are spirits involved in the Aura damage multiplier equation. Once the Aura multiplier is determined, you then multiply by the spirit atk multiplier, then (for example) Aura Attack Up on Aura (effect) moves, then Physical Up on physical moves, and then Trade-Off Attacks (order doesn't actually matter, it is just multiplication). I haven't personally tested it (I'll do that in the morning and report back), but should be easy to prove on a human player: Choose a primary with nothing equipped and no Styles; Forward Smash with Lucario at 65% (Base Aura); Reset and F-Smash at 190% (Max Aura); Difference should be ×1.6. Repeat the same but with 1 Aura Attack Up skill, difference should still be ×1.6 ((d*1.1*1.6)/(d*1.1)=1.6).--CanvasK (talk) 01:50, March 11, 2020 (EDT)

The table is to make it easy to tell at a glance what the Attack and Defense multipliers of different FP stat spreads do for you, and find the most efficient one for the points available with different skills in use. It's in the interest of that stat efficiency that I'm trying to understand this mechanic. I want to know the best spread on a Lucario to get the most out of its raw stats. At this point I must sound like I'm repeating myself, though.Bones Malone (talk)

I ran the test I mentioned and got the expected answer. So I can conclude that spirits do not affect Aura. Just determine Aura, times by stats, and times by skills and you are all set with attack. If there is still something that you are unsure of I'll try to answer it.

Ok, that makes sense. I'd like to give my input on the computing side if you don't mind. You can avoid having your formula in every cell by replacing the first cell of the column with the following ={"Effect"; ARRAYFORMULA(1+(A2:A4202*3.077/10000))} (and clear all the other cells in the column). The '{}' constructs an array. "Effect" is just the column header (make sure text is in quotes). The ';' means to arrange it in a column. And 'ARRAYFORMULA' computes what is inside across an array (in this case A2:A4202). Replace the formula in ARRAYFORMULA() with whatever you want to compute and it will work. Real convenient if you need to compute a lot but change the formula part way through.--CanvasK (talk) 10:51, March 11, 2020 (EDT)

↑↑ vs ↑ ↑

I know there is a space in the game when there are two ↑, but on the wiki, it's written without space in many pages. So unless you're on board for fixing it everywhere, I think yoou should undo you two edits where you removed the space, for consistency. YoshiRyu (talk) 16:58, March 13, 2020 (EDT)

I was going to but after I made the edit I thought "I'll have to track down 80+ uses of it. No thanks". But if the wiki's search is to be trusted, then there should only be at most 24 pages to edit. I'll do that later tonight when traffic is lower. (I would probably have done it regardless of the size at some point. 24 just means I need less drive)--CanvasK (talk) 17:18, March 13, 2020 (EDT)

OK. Well, my hat off to you then, sir. YoshiRyu (talk) 06:24, March 14, 2020 (EDT)

Spirits of Mana info

That was very helpful of you to put that info, but what’s your source? SonDaniel (talk page) 13:05, April 22, 2020 (EDT)

The Japanese Smash Twitter. They post the battle start screen as well as other details related to the Spirits. I've already compiled everything I could gather List of spirits (Others).--CanvasK (talk) 13:09, April 22, 2020 (EDT)

Moving Sonic (universe)

Someone suggested to move this article to Sonic the Hedgehog (universe). I tried doing that, but I couldn’t because there was another page named that, which was the page about the character. What should I do? SonDaniel (talk page) 15:08, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

My understanding is that Sonic the Hedgehog (universe) is a redirect to Sonic (universe) and normally redirects can have pages moved over them. However if that redirect has an edit on it then it isn't allowed, which that page has one edit. I don't have the experience or knowledge on how to deal with that, so you may want to talk to someone with more experience or an admin. --CanvasK (talk) 15:14, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

Ask Aidenzapunk or Disaster Flare because they are online, okey. S3AHAWK (Talk) 15:15, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

I tried doing something about it. I apologize. I tried turning a blank page or temporarily moving it. It’s not working... SonDaniel (talk page) 15:27, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

Wait for a response from an admin and leave Sonic the Hedgehog (universe) as a redirect to Sonic (universe).--CanvasK (talk) 15:28, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

The move wasn't working because you were moving it to weirdly named pages. Aidan, the Rurouni 15:31, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

I think the issue Son Daniel ran into was that pages can't be moved over redirects if it has any edits. Earlier "Sonic the Hedgehog (universe)" had its creation and a single edit by Porple, which was likely causing the issue. Not excusing the action, just an explanation. --CanvasK (talk) 15:37, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

Indented restarted. Again, I apologize. SonDaniel (talk page) 15:39, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

The Final Smash Page

Hi, I saw the final smash page you reverted and I decided to check on the history. I saw he inserted false information on the page. Should I report the IP address to the admin noticeboard or should I let you report them? Thanks S3AHAWK (talk) 19:08, May 2, 2020 (EDT)

I personally don't report if it is just once since it is probably some kid thinking they are funny and I don't think that is worth the effort to have an admin block them. If they kept making edits like that I would have reported them at the time. However I am pretty lenient on here and in real life, so I may not be the best judge. --CanvasK (talk) 19:18, May 2, 2020 (EDT)

Ok. Thanks for clarifying it with me. I'll try to keep an eye on them. S3AHAWK (talk) 19:22, May 2, 2020 (EDT)

Rank to class?

So, I saw that you were editing “rank” back to “class”. Why? SonDaniel (talk page) 23:01, May 11, 2020 (EDT)

About a week ago I started to change "class" to "rank" because I thought that is what it was properly referred to in game. After sometime I found it was about 50/50 on which was used. So I'm cleaning up the mess I made to keep the wiki consistent with itself, as the wiki uses "class" almost everywhere. --CanvasK (talk) 23:04, May 11, 2020 (EDT)

I see you are changing some of them yourself. If you're going to help with the reverts, I only touched the "List of Spirits (series)" pages and I don't want to mess with anything else right now. --CanvasK (talk) 23:23, May 11, 2020 (EDT)

In response to this edit

“	Unlike Link's down air attack, Toon Link's doesn't bounce up when it hits a foe. If you try to dunk someone with it, you're gonna have a bad time.	”
—Toon Link's tips in Smash 4

That said, the edit shouldn't stay, because it's not that notable, some people just made a joke out of it. Aidan, the Rurouni 00:48, May 13, 2020 (EDT)

Not Canvas and not saying that the trivia should stay, but what point are you exactly trying to get across with the quote you presented? The trivia clearly states that Smash 4 predates Undertale by a little over a year, and while I have found development footage of the game that dates all the way back to 2013, it never really became super well known until its eventual release. Even if the tip was indeed a reference to something, it most certainly had to have been South Park (presumably the quote said by the ski instructor that became a meme). (And yes, I know some people on here have argued that Smash would NEVER reference something with such vulgar humor, but I dunno how to feel about that...). To put it simply: the "dunk" part in the tip was merely a coincidence. SuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle Tribe 01:22, May 13, 2020 (EDT)

Canvas was questioning what the reference was supposed to be, so Aidan was providing the answer. *cue Megalovania* OmegαToαd64 • the Best Kαrter 01:36, May 13, 2020 (EDT)

Oof! I somehow thought it was Canvas who added the trivia when they actually removed it and asked a "who and what" question. Apologies to Aiden for starting a conversation that ultimately meant nothing. I guess I just had a REALLY bad brainfart. SuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle Tribe 02:13, May 13, 2020 (EDT)

Morning friends.

Ok, I can see that. Thanks for clearing that up. --CanvasK (talk) 07:22, May 13, 2020 (EDT)

Categorizing SSB4 special moves

Hey! Thanks for trying to help! SonDaniel (talk page) 17:40, May 17, 2020 (EDT)

If anyone should be thanked, it is you. You're the one who did nearly 200 edits to switch over the category. I would've taken some of the load but you seemed to have specific edits you wanted done (like the disambiguation stuff) and I didn't want to mess it up. --CanvasK (talk) 17:45, May 17, 2020 (EDT)

This symbol

An IP asked if this counts as a series symbol like the assist trophy and World of Light symbols. Does it? SonDaniel (talk page) 16:52, May 20, 2020 (EDT)

I would argue no. The main reasons being is that AT's have been present in the past 3 games and Spirits are only in Ultimate. Along with that, the Spirit "Universe" doesn't exist outside of WoL, which is already represented by the WoL symbol. --CanvasK (talk) 17:01, May 20, 2020 (EDT)

Adding gifs of on-screen appearances

Thanks! --CanvasK (talk) 13:43, May 27, 2020 (EDT)

Forums

Hi CanvasK. I have reently discovered on Disaster Flare's Talk Page that you closed 2 forums. Just to let you know, only admins and above can close forums. Thanks. S3AHAWK said ketchup won 19:54, June 6, 2020 (EDT)

charizard's up throw

I'm going to reiterate here that warnings do not show on the actual page they only appear in the markup language in edit mode. I put the & nbsp; back but that warning on the table for Charizard's UThrow is because you don't give moves names unless the game actually refers to them as such. That's fact, not emotion. Do not revert the undo I just made. 84.17.56.165 00:23, June 11, 2020 (EDT)

I'm going to interject and say that there are better ways you could be going at this issue rather than edit warring and also leaving editing notes with stern all-caps language, especially regarding something that isn't even that big of a problem. I'll be doing some investigating later, but as far as I'm aware, there's no need for you to be adding in such an editing note - You could have just as easily put what you wanted to say in an edit summary while removing the offending item, thereby not causing the trouble you're causing now. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 02:16, June 11, 2020 (EDT)

I'm aware that using the comment tag doesn't show up and that moves are only named on the wiki if the series explicitly does. The "emotion" I was referring to was the all caps in the markup comment, which I assumed was anger/irritation (If it wasn't, that's on me). As Black Vulpine has said I'm not sure if anything more than an edit summary is needed for this. It seems to happen rarely (a quick glance showing it happened only twice in 6 months) but if a noted is really needed, something simple like "Do not call this move Seismic Toss. It is not named in game" should suffice. --CanvasK (talk) 07:00, June 11, 2020 (EDT)

Would also recommend throwing in SmashWiki is not speculative if a hidden note is necessary. OmegαToαd64 07:38, June 11, 2020 (EDT)

Regarding custom moves

I accidentally made the change before finishing typing, so this is what I was about to say

I doubt anyone plays smash 4 much now, and I highly doubt they use customs when they do. Even then, all other custom moves (aside from Palutena and Mii Fighters) do not have links on the page like you had so why make them for Mach Tornado?

Gligar2007 (talk) 16:21, September 1, 2020 (EDT)

First, I didn't make the links for Mach Tornado. SuperSqank did and they've done so on other pages. Examples being Super Jump Punch, Fireball, Falcon Kick, Falcon Dive, Rest, Wario Waft etc. SuperSqank has also been making tons of hitbox pages for Smash 4.

Second, because "no one plays Smash 4" is a terrible argument (in fact I played it a few months ago to test something). The wiki is an encyclopedia so it is important to document things, regardless of if that game is dead or not. And I would play with customs if my friends had the patience to set it up, same with spirits.

--CanvasK (talk) 16:30, September 1, 2020 (EDT)

Italian PR edits

Hi. Member of the italian melee community here. The pr was fake and a joke posted by one of us which was promptly deleted but I don't know who and why keep reinstating it without even fact checking. Please stop it and delete :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ILSOCIOLOZIO (talk • contribs) 07:31, September 3, 2020

I figured something was off because the Twitter account has no mention for 2020. The edit stayed up for about 4 days, which gives it some "legitimacy". I was hoping for someone closer to the competitive scene to look into it and put a stop to it. --CanvasK (talk) 07:40, September 3, 2020 (EDT)

Explanation

It was another rollback misfire on my part. I was tired and just about to fall asleep. I must have caught buttons on my iPhone just before closing it for the night. I sincerely apologise... Black Vulpine of the 🦊Furry Nation🐺. Furries make the internets go! :3 14:45, November 7, 2020 (EST)

I've seen that happen before so I figured that's what happened. I also apologize if my edit summary came off as harsh or anything. Thinking back on it I probably shouldn't of made that summary to begin with as I'm not even sure what tone I was going for other than maybe confused. --CanvasK (talk) 16:08, November 7, 2020 (EST)

No no, I didn’t misread your tone. I just felt it necessary to explain myself - I hate slipping up like that. Black Vulpine of the 🦊Furry Nation🐺. Furries make the internets go! :3 18:11, November 7, 2020 (EST)

Spirit Name Standardization

I think we should set up a single page that both of us can use to reference what work has been done and what work needs to be done for standardizing spirit names, simply because of the sheer scope of the task. I can see that you have made significant headway with moving files, but unless I were to be constantly referencing your edit history I would not know exactly what is done. DekZek 19:45, November 19, 2020 (EST)

Sure. I can make a shared Google Sheet if that works for you. I may not be doing any more moves tonight just as a heads up. --CanvasK (talk) 19:50, November 19, 2020 (EST)

That should work. I connected my email to this account so you should be able to send me a message and then I can tell you what my email is through there (normally I'd tell you it through Discord but since you don't have it this workaround will do). It's through gmail so you should be able to add me to the google sheet. DekZek 20:31, November 19, 2020 (EST)

I just sent a link with edit permissions, so no email permission needed. The spreadsheet can be deleted afterwards to kill the link. I should be able to do a lot more tomorrow afternoon. Earlier I got a prompt effectively saying I need to slow down on the moves as a form of anti-spam. --CanvasK (talk) 00:09, November 20, 2020 (EST)

You know you're doing your job effectively when the wiki itself tells you to slow down. I got the link and made some edits, I set up some formatting to better keep track of our progress as a whole. Looking at the scope, I think we should create all the redirects first and then work on removing the links to the old file, so we don't spam Recent Changes as much. DekZek 01:35, November 20, 2020 (EST)

Looks good. That was my plan, otherwise we'd be editing various page hundreds of times when it can be once or twice. There are some spirits that use promo art from elsewhere instead of the direct rip (mainly event ones), I made a note of them because there aren't any rips for them on spriters-resource. I should be good to go in about 8 hours; I think I'll mark a chunk of maybe 50 to do so we don't cross the beams. --CanvasK (talk) 08:37, November 20, 2020 (EST)

Not Notable?

If it isn't notable, then why is Greninja's Better Nerf meme on the wiki? --CirbyoKieeb (talk) 18:35, November 20, 2020 (EST)

"Better Nerf Greninja" had a wider spread. "Pikachu Busted" is mostly just ESAM. --CanvasK (talk) 18:39, November 20, 2020 (EST)

Since you were adding back Byleth (possibly both genders) having an A-pose with a source...

I'm kinda starting to think that Byleth is buff, like Terry, probably as to why both characters don't have a T-pose... SafariKid2 (talk) 18:26, November 28, 2020 (EST)

Ganondorf has more muscle mass than Byleth and he has a T-pose. What's more likely is the models from FE:3H were copied (with necessary adjustments for ease of use and performance), and it appears all human characters use an A-pose in that game. --CanvasK (talk) 18:50, November 28, 2020 (EST)

ummm..

Sir, why did you undo my move? It was put before I moved it that it should be moved to Omnislash / Omnislash Ver. 5. So, what I did was right. -CirbyoKieeb (talk) 21:08, December 23, 2020 (EST)

Moving pages requires consensus. The page that you moved not only had no consensus yet, but was already leaning towards not moving it. --CanvasK (talk) 21:09, December 23, 2020 (EST)

Wow, that's pretty dumb, but ok. -CirbyoKieeb (talk) 21:10, December 23, 2020 (EST)

It is to prevent people from moving high-traffic pages (which Omnislash definitely counts as right now) and possibly breaking things. --CanvasK (talk) 21:11, December 23, 2020 (EST)

Unsigned comments

I just had to clean up after you here so I'll just give you a little bit of advice. It's a bit of a pain in the arse, but it's still probably easier than what you did. Next time you see an unsigned comment, place the following code as the signature:

{{subst:unsigned|IP or username|time of post}}

The wiki's parser will do the rest. Black Vulpine of the 🦊Furry Nation🐺. Furries make the internets go! :3 21:37, December 23, 2020 (EST)

Thanks. I've used the unsigned template several times before. It looks like I forgot to put the pipe between the first and second section, not sure how I missed it. Thanks for catching that! --CanvasK (talk) 21:44, December 23, 2020 (EST)

Sorry

Hi, I wanted to apologize for making this edit. I didn't saw your edit summary (which I now agree with) at the time and got carried away by emotions, violating SW:QDV in process. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I just wanted you to know that I know what I did wrong. Superbound (talk) 02:20, January 22, 2021 (EST)

No need to be sorry. We all do things that we later realize we shouldn't have. --CanvasK (talk) 07:11, January 22, 2021 (EST)

I know, but I just couldn't stay passive while knowing I did something wrong. Also, unrelated to the original topic, but is there a way for this table to have "Red", "Green" and "Blue" columns the same width? Superbound (talk) 10:01, January 22, 2021 (EST)

You know how you specified a background color for some of your cells? You can do the same for width. Because they are header cells, instead of doing |style=blah blah| you want !style=blah blah| (note the placement of the "!"). --CanvasK (talk) 10:20, January 22, 2021 (EST)

I am aware of width, but it streched out the other cells rather weirdly. At first, my code looked like this:

{| class="wikitable" border="1" cellpadding="2"
!rowspan=3|#
!rowspan=3|Character
!rowspan=3|Image
!colspan=4|Color code
|-
!rowspan=2|Hex
!colspan=3|RGB
|-
!width=5%|Red
!width=5%|Green
!width=5%|Blue
|-

But it caused problems and eventually became this:

{| class="wikitable" border="1" cellpadding="2"
!rowspan=3 width=5%|#
!rowspan=3 width=15%||Character
!rowspan=3 width=18%|Image
!colspan=4 width=20%|Color code
|-
!rowspan=2 width=5%|Hex
!colspan=3|RGB
|-
!width=5%|Red
!width=5%|Green
!width=5%|Blue
|-

And it still didn't work and I didn't have a clue why. I thought maybe you can help me. Superbound (talk) 10:31, January 22, 2021 (EST)

Percents do funky things when everything else doesn't. Look into using px (pixels), at least for the RGB columns. --CanvasK (talk) 10:34, January 22, 2021 (EST)

It works, thanks a lot! Superbound (talk) 10:40, January 22, 2021 (EST)