Marth vs Lucina.
There are no differences in the basic properties of Lucina's normals and specials, with the exception of the tipper mechanic. This goes for Chrom vs Roy too (except for up special). Lucina's attacks, in general, are 12% more effective than Marth's sourspots, and 25% less effective than Marth's sweetspots. In general, Marth has a higher total damage output because of this. Lucina's consistency is certainly not without merit. Lucina's up tilt actually emulates Marth's move in terms of timing. The same strats can be used with both fighters, since their framedata and attributes are identical. Also, can we stop with the "More Unique Echo Fighter" thing? --Tuffingtons (talk) 15:58, 18 January 2019 (EST)
- It is impossible to make a statement about whose damage is higher without accounting for rates of successful tipping with actual evidence, which you do not have. Please refrain from edit warring. – Emmett 16:17, 18 January 2019 (EST)
Hello memoryman3. You’re being very disruptive on this page. First of all, as experience as a Lucina main, I can tell you with certainty that she and Marth can’t play the same way. While definitely not to the extent Chrom and Ken are, she is still unique for an echo fighter. Secondly, it is fairly notable that she is he only echo fighter who has a different screen KO, and it’s important to go into detail about how he lack of a tipper affects them (such as not being able to secure KOs). Thirdly, Lucina’s up tilt does not emulate Marth’s tipper because marth’s tipper also deals more knockback. Lucina’s ting-based sweetspot deals more damage, but also less knockback. So knock it off memeoryman3. 184.108.40.206 16:50, 18 January 2019 (EST)
Since I'm the one that reverted your last edit, let's go over some things:
She was slightly recloned from her previous appearance in SSB4, as she is no longer shorter than Marth and her up tilt will now move her forward slightly.
her up tilt has a unique sweetspot based on how late into the swing the opponent is hit.
While Lucina and Marth have identical attacks, mobility attributes and frame data, the lack of a tipper spreads across Lucina's entire moveset, causing her to be generally agreed to be one of the more unique Echo Fighters, alongside Chrom and Ken. As such, these three are expected to be placed separately fron their counterparts on the tier list.
Why were any of these removed?
- Lucina's Counter's stance is different. She also has different quotes when she counterattacks, saying "My turn!" or "You're mine!"
- Lucina's Shield Breaker's animation is different. She leans farther back during its start-up; trembles more exaggeratedly while rearing her arm back; and takes a step forward during its thrust. This change is also reflected when Kirby copies this.
Why were these moved out of her Specials section?
The problem isn't the information you added, it's the information you removed and changed around. If you're removing information, please actually provide a source as to why, not just stating non-informative stuff like "Shield Breaker is not a function change." Site references, datamining, actual evidence to your claims would help keep the information as it is.
PS. No confirmation this is Memoryman3 (though you are acting very much like him), so enough with the accusations 220.127.116.11. If he is, then he'll be banned when evidence to that comes up. Alex95 (talk) 16:56, 18 January 2019 (EST)
Well, if we look at the other echo fighter changes, aesthetic changes are not in the Special Moves section because they do not affect functionality of the character in any tangible way. And yes, we have data that Lucina's attacks are actually closer to Marth's sourspots than sweetspots. You are correct on the up-tilt change. Also, many official sources of information, top players on Smashcords, framedata analysis, and professional players such as ZeRo recommend you play Lucina like Marth due to the traits she shares (framedata, range, speed etc.) Echo Fighters are also classed as sharing all the main attributes with their base, and datamining proves this. --Tuffingtons (talk) 05:52, 19 January 2019 (EST)
- I’m going to have to call your bluff here. MKLeo, one of the best Marth players in Smash 4, is literally saying that Lucina is better because Marth can only space. Lucina can both space and play aggressively, though her spacing is vastly inferior to Marth’s. The “closer to Marth’s sourspots than sweetspots” thing is probably valid, but your disruptive edits that are removing valid information are making you very suspectible. You’re also wrong about the whole “echoes share all attributes” thing. That was said by Bill Treiner on E3 day when Gamexplain was interviewing him. That information was valid at the time, but then Ken came along. Disproving your case further, Dr. Mario’s attributes actually are identical under the hood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk • contribs) 12:38, January 19, 2019
On your point on aesthetic changes that aren't in the "Aesthetics" section, this piece of trivia on Ken's difference page, "Hadoken contains an image of Ken's hands, as it does in the original Street Fighter II," is actually located in his Specials section rather than Aesthetics. Same thing for Dark Pit and his electric affect during Electroshock Arm. The point of the Aesthetics section for echoes is to note differences in things such as victory animations and idle animations, not move properties. SugarCookie420 (talk) 13:50, 19 January 2019 (EST)
Marth vs Lucina section
Can somebody copy-paste some of the info from here?: https://www.ssbwiki.com/Forum:Lucina_vs._Marth
Since Chrom’s page puts his differences under his attributes section, I feel like the differences should be detailed a little bit more using these. I unfortunately can’t add this in because I’m not autoconfirmed yet. Lou Cena (talk) 19:41, 5 February 2019 (EST)