Talk:Equipment

Characters into Characters

Are there any good means for assessing what equipment values can help modify characters into other characters? I'd like to be able to, say, take Dr. Mario, and with some calculations and a bit of luck, be able to up his speed and down his attack to make him more like Mario (Sans FLUDD). Alternatively, this could help people create rollbacks for some of the characters who get fixed in patches.

I know SSB4 fans have mixed feelings about turning on customization, since the alternate B moves tend to be more savvy than the equipment, but if there were a way to make and describe equipment sets that allow characters to be added to the game which have stats which reflect previous iterations of Smash Bros, or allow a Captain Hawk player to play Gannondorf seamlessly, I think even the equipment customization might be considered with positive association. Werty8472 (talk) 17:58, 12 August 2015 (EDT)

Unused Equipment

The Chip and Battery are seemingly unused. Should this be mentioned on the page or am I missing something here? Machspeed also looks unused, but I'm guessing it's used for Kirby. Laikue (talk|contribs) 14:35, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

The Chip is listed for Mr. Game & Watch, and it's very plausible that Machspeed matches the Kirby characters. Miles (talk) 15:37, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

Ugh, I'm an idiot. Ignore this talk page. Laikue (talk|contribs) 18:32, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

Japanese names

Should we remove the Japanese as we add the English names, or keep it, or...? I un-italicized the names that I updated but kept the Japanese; was that the right thing to do? Leafbarrett (talk) 13:21, 4 October 2014 (EDT)

I do wish people would stop erasing the Japanese just because they don't play that version. There are members who do play the Japanese but also use the English wiki, and it really doesn't hurt the other users to see a third name just because they can't read it. Jarie Suicune (talk) 12:59, 30 January 2016 (EST)

Value of increase?

I've been toying around with equipment, and it seems that a +1 increase in Attack increases damage dealt by about 1%. Can somebody verify this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.152.70.243 (talk • contribs) 12:10, 12 November 2014 (EST)

I've given many characters a 200+ in attack and they did twice the amount of damage that they did at their base power. I'd say that they're given attack increases in terms of decimals/fractions with certain numbers. Blue Sun (talk) 18:06, 28 November 2014 (EDT)

It appears, in this case, that "+1 = +0.5%"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZobmieRules (talk • contribs) 17:28, 10 December 2014 (EST)

Equipment dump?

I'd like to contribute to the min-max section, as I'm certain I have some that are better than those shown. But, I'm lazy, and don't want to go through the lists. Would it be acceptable if I dump my equipment and their stats here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZobmieRules (talk • contribs) 17:16, 10 December 2014 (EST)

Dumping directly onto this page would be unsuitable. However, you could do so on your userpage, like I did on mine. Toomai Glittershine The Spark 18:16, 10 December 2014 (EST)

Well, my userpage is now an equipment dump. Hooray. If anyone wants to update all of the min-max's that are there, feel free. It'd make my time spent on that list worth it. Who knows, I was able to make that list, so maybe I'll be not-lazy enough to update them myself. Eh, either way. ZobmieRules (talk) 21:36, 15 December 2014 (EST)

Values of equipment effects

At least in the world of amiibo, it seems that beneficial equipment have a negative value of sorts, while hindering equipment have a positive value of sorts. I'm thinking that this probably has to do with the capacity of the max att/def/spd values of the amiibo, but maybe we could add those values. Quajustu (talk) 19:17, 15 February 2015 (EST)

Unlockable equipment (Wii U)

Some equipment is “unlockable” through the challenge board or event matches. Can this equipment also be obtained in other ways, or is it unique? Or perhaps it becomes available normally after being unlocked once, like some of the trophies? This should be tested and depending on the results, this equipment should be listed on List of unlockables (SSB4-Wii U). —Fenhl 23:47, 1 March 2015 (EST)

I strongly suspect that you can gain stuff just like unlockable equipment at random; the challenges and events just guarantee specific type-effect combinations. I'm not sure we can prove it though. Toomai Glittershine The Awesome 23:58, 1 March 2015 (EST)

Values of equipment

When updating the equipment values table, I've noticed that most equipment with medium rarity tends to have a maximum possible stat boost of 60. Plus, I don't think the developers would explicitly give some characters better possible pools of equipment than others. Is this a coincidence, or could all equipment of the same rarity have the same possible stat gains and losses? Nyargleblargle (Talk) 11:22, 2 June 2015 (EDT)

Another Equipment Thing

In this video, there is a Fast Bat Striker, which sounds remarkably similar to the Quick Batter we have listed. Is this video PAL or something? SYZekrom (talk) 21:18, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

Yep, the video is definitely PAL (you can see the word “Defence” in the screenshot of the custom Fox), and I can confirm that Fast Bat Smasher is the PAL name for Quick Batter. —Fenhl 10:52, 22 June 2015 (EDT)

Equipment stats section revamp?

From what I've gathered, equipment stats are calculated as such:

• Assuming no bonus effect, the positive stat is between 10 and 85 (10-30 = Common, 31-60 = Uncommon, 61-85 = Rare)
• The negative stat is between 50% and 70% of the positive stat.
• If equipment has a positive bonus effect, subtract the effect's (Amiibo) stat modifier from its positive stat value.
• Similarly, if equipment has a negative bonus effect, subtract the effect's stat modifier from its negative stat value.
• No equipment will be generated that results in a positive or a negative stat value below 5.
• After all those calculations, "generic" badges (Brawn, Protection, Agility) have both stats multiplied by 71.875% (23/32).
• Stats are rounded down if necessary.

This seems to hold for all of the equipment I have on my Wii U game (upwards of 1000), and for the most part lines up with the data in the "Known equipment stat values" section, which could probably be removed. I'm not sure what the probability of it generating equipment with a certain strength / effect is, but I imagine it varies between modes, difficulty, etc. Hope this helps! Jdaster64 (talk)

This does seem to be the case, at least in the case of equipment second names (Toad, Sacred Treasures) not affecting strength. If anyone has any evidence against this, though, please present it. Equipment is fairly unexplored. Nyargleblargle (Talk) 18:07, 10 August 2015 (EDT)

If nothing else, I'm 99.999% sure that the equipment second names always correspond to the ranges 10-30, 31-60, and 61-85; the game data has a huge table that seems to indicate that is the case. Jdaster64 (talk)

My own research here is a bit behind, but I do agree that the "known values" section has been obsoleted. I plan to see if my data matches your analysis and if so replace the section. Toomai Glittershine The Celeritous 18:09, 10 August 2015 (EDT)

Okay I'm referencing my own data and I have a question in regards to working backwards to obtain "raw" values. I have a Shield Exploder Protection Badge of +12/-30. Unbadging it leads to +16.7/-41.7, and removing the Shield Exploder (-30) from the positive gives +46.7/-41.7 - which is way too weak (negative is almost 90% of positive). On the other hand, I have an Item Shooter Ring of +40/-17, and removing the -33 from the positive leads to +73/17 - far too strong (~23%). There are enough of these abnormalities that I don't think it's a transcription error (okay, the ring might be, but not the badge). What's the deal? Toomai Glittershine The Frivolous 18:49, 10 August 2015 (EDT)

Also, do you happen to have found the price formula in your travels? Toomai Glittershine The Altruistic 18:51, 10 August 2015 (EDT)

What about the amiibo stat modifier? Nyargleblargle (Talk) 18:53, 10 August 2015 (EDT)

I haven't tested the stats of bonus effects on all of my generic badges yet, but all of them thus far line up with the process I outlined above, and fall everywhere within the [0.5,0.7) range. There is a single Hyper Smasher Brawn Badge that falls outside, with (+16,-28), but it's a challenge reward with fixed stats, and as such might not be subject to the same rules. Not sure why there seem to be a few outliers in your data, but I can tell you that all of my errors beforehand ended up being due to erroneously listing a few Agility Badges with all my character-specific equipment (they look similar to boots, and it's kind of tedious entering 800+ equipment pieces at once). The amiibo stat modifiers on the page currently line up with the game data from what I can tell (I added a few missing ones), and I haven't figured out how sell prices work. For the record, here's a link to a copy of my data thus far: XLSX. I'm probably going to be busy the next few days, so I won't really be able to look at it much more in-depth. Jdaster64 (talk)

One more thing; on the note of sell prices, there's a list of floats tied to int ranges of positive stats in the game data that seem to have something to do with sell prices. For instance, 71-85 : 1.71, 61-70 : 1.44, 51-60 : 1.35... There are definitely notable drops in sell prices every ten positive points; I tried to fit some functions to the data with these values in mind, but couldn't find anything very close. I'll go ahead a post a link to all the equipment data I was able to find in the game, in text form with some annotations: Text Jdaster64 (talk)

Sorry to spam this page, but I found out that sell prices for all effect-less equipment are (1.0 * positive - 0.6 * negative) * tier multiplier (1.71, 1.44, 1.35...), rounded down (e.g. Max-Power Gloves (+54, -30) = (54 - 0.6*30)*1.35 = 48G). Generic badges use the stat tier they would be if they were non-generic for the tier multiplier, but the stats they actually have for the positive and negative values (e.g. Rare Brawn Badge (+61, -36) = (61 - 0.6*36)*1.71 = 67G). In practice, I guess this means a Rare Brawn Badge w/(+43, -25) and a Super Brawn Badge w/(+43, -25) could have different sell prices, if their original stats were +61 and +60, respectively. I'm not sure how the sell price works for equipment with effects, since it seems to vary a lot more. It likely has to do with the stuff around the 1.00, 0.60 in the data, but I haven't turned up anything yet. Jdaster64 (talk)

Equipment with bonus effects sell price: (1.0 * positive - 0.6 * negative + 1.1 * (positive stat modifier, if applicable) - 0.4 * (negative stat modifier, if applicable)) * tier multiplier (assuming unmodified stats), rounded down. I presume the same process for generic effectless badges applies to generic badges with effects as well. Jdaster64 (talk)

Okay I'm confident enough to add this to the page now. Good stuff. Also, make sure to sign your posts with four tildes, or the timestamp will be missing. Toomai Glittershine The Resolute 16:31, 11 August 2015 (EDT)

Comprehensive Data Tables

Hi. I just finished compiling my Comprehensive Data Tables and was just wondering if my research could be put onto the page or not. --Arima (talk) 00:34, 29 August 2015 (EDT)

In some way, possibly, but you'll need a tone change (it needs to be more "here are the values" than "here is my advice"), and it needs to be more understandable. Serpent∞King (talk) 00:48, 29 August 2015 (EDT)

Can you please elaborate on how the Information is hard to understand?--Arima (talk) 02:12, 29 August 2015 (EDT)

Lost Forever

I had a custom character with a Rare Piece of Equipment that had +82 and -42 and I just did a curious experiment where I replaced it with a different Piece that had +70 and -35. When I saved the changes and went back into Equipment selection, the Equipment that had +82 and -42 was no longer in the inventory. It did not show up when I shifted the sorting category to "Last Used". Apparently, you can no longer change Equipment on custom characters without losing the Equipment that they were previously using. In what Patch Update did they implement this? Because it certainly was not in Version 1.0.0. --Arima (talk) 23:26, 4 September 2015 (EDT)

Oh crap, is this for real? I can't touch my "Sleep Kirby" Jigglypuff then Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ 18:36, 20 February 2016 (EST)

New Number Cap

I have just discovered two pieces of equipment that have positive values exceed 85. The two pieces of equipment in question are my Picky Eater Sword (+88,−23) and my Risky Respawner Gloves (+89,−30). I daresay that the highest positive number for rare equipment is a "90". I have more another piece of equipment which adds to this theory. I have a Shield Regenerator Booster whose values are both +69 and −30 respectively (it sells for 126g, the highest out of everything on my Nintendo 3DS and my Nintendo Wii U). The table states that the Shield Regenerator bonus effect takes away 21 from the positive stat. Add 21 and 69 together and what do you get? 90. Blue Sun (talk) 2:16, 27 November 2015 (EDT)

Something seems off about this information, as it doesn't seem to follow the formula trend. Equipment that has a positive value of 89 can't have a negative value that's greater than 62, so the Risky Respawner equipment can only have a negative value of 30, if its positive value is 90; 30+33=63. 67.242.7.137 15:34, 28 November 2015 (EST)

I should probably point out now that legit equipment never has positive values that are greater than 85; you can never legally acquire any equipment with a positive value of 86 to 90. 67.242.7.137 17:56, 30 November 2015 (EST)

Video proof of No-Flinch Smasher giving no Super Armor. I really feel we should add this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj3uNBy4OxE

I can't hack, so I have no way of figuring out the limit, or even if it stacks (Originally they said the item starting don't stack, but I proved that false. How do I know this isn't the same here?). Unowninator (talk) 16:37, 11 February 2016 (EST)

For now I'm just gonna add that it's seemingly limited armour. From the looks of it, it probably takes a certain amount of damage or knockback to break through it. Might be possible to work it out through testing. Zyrac(talk•contribs) 04:54, 12 February 2016 (EST)