Talk:Freezing

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Freeze duration variables, what I know from testing[edit]

From testing, I have been able to determine the following:

  • Freeze duration is directly affected by the damage the move deals.
    • Additionally, staleness values are considered, rather than ignored.
  • Freeze duration is NOT affected by knockback dealt by the move, however the move must deal a minimum amount of knockback for it to freeze the opponent.
  • Freeze duration is NOT affected by weight.
  • Freeze duration is NOT affected by the victims percent (i.e when fresh, a specific freezing move will freeze for just as long whether the opponent is on 0%, 999% or anywhere in between).
  • Freeze duration is NOT affected by the escape-artist bonus effect.

Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 15:45, 15 August 2017 (EDT)

Move to Ice[edit]

Support. If the effect is referred to as "ice" internally, then that's the name I think we should use. In my opinion, the word "freezing" sounds more like an action then an effect. Acgamer28 12:50, April 22, 2020 (EDT)

Support. If the script refers to it as "ice", then we should call it ice. Laniv (talk) 15:16, April 29, 2020 (EDT)

Oh boy, I'm bringing this up but I Support for the reasons above. S3AHAWKS3AHAWK Signature icon 1.pngS3AHAWK signature icon 2.png (talk) 23:03, May 4, 2020 (EDT)

Support Freezing sounds off because it belongs to the action of an opponent being frozen. Ice makes sense in terms of the effect. 001Toad.jpg OmegαToαd64the Best Kαrter 23:03, May 10, 2020 (EDT)

I would like to note a few things:

  1. "Freezing" is the official name in SSBB, and SSBU uses both "Ice" and "Freezing". So it's not like we're currently calling it that for no reason.
  2. Usually, it is a bad idea to use terms that only exist as internal names. This is not necessarily one of those cases since "Ice" does appear in SSBU.
  3. It is extremely difficult to rename effects - you can't just move this page, you have to move the image, edit the data templates, relocate every category and all their contents, and probably something else I can't remember. In addition, doing so arguably causes permanent damage to the community of past games, as all their non-SmashWiki sources of information will no longer line up correctly. The "Bow" -> "Sacred" move was less troublesome because it's a type (lesser gameplay mechanic) restricted to a single character - this would be far more work across many more games for...what sort of payoff exactly?

Toomai Glittershine ??? The Researcher 07:29, May 11, 2020 (EDT)

Brawl terms are largely irrelevant now. The internal name isn't the only reason for moving, as you yourself pointed out. Furthermore the name freezing is misleading as the ice effect alone isn't enough to cause freezing. Ice would also be more consistent with other elemental effect names, such as water, flame, electric, grass etc. The difficulty involved with implementing a change is something you seem to like bringing up when it's convenient, but that's not an excuse to continue using an outdated, misleading and inconsistent term. Alex the Weeb 07:38, May 11, 2020 (EDT)
If Ultimate still uses it (which it does), it's not "outdated". It's not "misleading" either - the bury effect by itself isn't enough to cause burying either (you have to be grounded, like how for freezing you have to take enough knockback). And sure it's "inconsistent" with the elements of flame, electric, grass, and water, but it's consistent with the status-causers of bury, paralyze, stun, and sleep, so we can't have it both ways no matter what. Toomai Glittershine ??? The Non-Toxic 07:33, May 13, 2020 (EDT)
I mean, technically it's not consistant with the other status effects either (if it were, it would be called "freeze", or the others would be "burying", "paralyzing", "stunning" and "sleeping"). But even as a status effect it still fits more into the elemental category, kinda like how some Ice type moves can cause freezing in Pokémon. And if they added a feature where, for example, flame attacks could cause burns, would we favour the name "burn" or "burning" instead? Alex the Weeb 07:54, May 13, 2020 (EDT)
I don't think it's fair to consider unknown futures here. In any case, based on how the series is trending, something that causes afterburn would be a new effect alongside "flame" rather than a replacement or augmentation. Toomai Glittershine ??? The Spark 07:33, May 21, 2020 (EDT)
It is extremely difficult to rename categories"
How so? Let's see:
"...move the image"
Moving just one image is not that hard at all.
"...edit the data templates"
OK this might be hard for those who don't know templates but you're not the only one who has to do all of the work right? Users who are experienced can assist with that.
"...relocate every category"
Admins have the text replacement tool right?. As a WikiBound admin text replace allowed me to easily move categories. 001Toad.jpg OmegαToαd64the Best Kαrter 07:50, May 11, 2020 (EDT)
Each individual step being mechanically easy does not mean the entire process is quick or simple; it remains a large enough undertaking that I do not believe the benefit is worth it given my other arguments. Toomai Glittershine ??? The Non-Toxic 07:33, May 13, 2020 (EDT)

I'm now more or less neutral on this move, but bumping this nevertheless. I still think there's some small advantage to be had in moving the article to Ice, not so much because it's the script name but moreso because it's just more direct and consistent. Acgamer28Acgamer28SignatureHead.png 15:57, June 19, 2020 (EDT)