User talk:Smash Master/Archive 2
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Hammer as a horizontal recovery assistance
Exactly why do you think it's a useful aid when it comes to horizontal recovery? It has an insignificant reduction in falling speed, does not propel you forward, and an insignificant vertical boost. In addition, opponents can easily meteor smash while you initiate the move, screwing you over in all attempts to recover. MegaTron1XD
23:35, 27 July 2012 (EDT)
- I never said that it GAINS horizontal distance, if there was no falling speed, the characters could move a little distance in the air, this is why I thought Fox and Falco have the slowest air speed in Melee, but there are 6 characters with slower air speeds than them. Smash Master 00:20, 28 July 2012 (EDT)
- The question still stands, why do you think it assists in horizontal recovery? Whether or not you thought it gained horizontal distance does not change the original question, which was addressing why you thought the move helped in horizontal recovery. MegaTron1XD
00:21, 28 July 2012 (EDT)
- Because it halts his falling for a brief time, but thanks for telling me (though you could easily be meteor smashed by most recovery moves such as Fire Fox). Smash Master 01:06, 29 July 2012 (EDT)
- Even if it does halt his falling speed, that difference is negligible and will never mean the difference between life and death. Kirby doesn't fall fast anyway and you're better off air dodging, or better yet not doing anything until an opponent tries to edgeguard you. As for firefox/firebird, those are used because Fox and Falco have no more options after a mid air jump besides illusion/phantasm. Kirby on the other hand has many other options other than hammer such as great aerials that can protect you from edgeguarding.--BrianDon't try me!
18:06, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
- It may not be the best move in recovery, but it still helps his horizontal recovery slightly, not significantly. Smash Master 18:21, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Using hammer propels Kirby more than his air speed. That's true. ShupaRoeh
18:24, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Thank you, that was exactally what I was trying to say all along, but they didn't get the message. -_- Smash Master 19:20, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Hammer will not "propel" you any more distance than your normal airspeed. All it really does is leave you hanging in the air for a split second (which as we have all stated is pretty much useless) and places a hitbox in front of kirby that is easily read. The hammer does not help you momentum cancel either. You are better off using up air or forward air to momentum cancel horizontally. OT has tested this and the former (up air) is kriby's best move to MC.--BrianDon't try me! 19:23, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- We said nothing about momentum canceling, so that is irrelevant. Besides, I prefer his up air to MC than hammer any day. Smash Master 19:32, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- So long as you give up the notion that hammer aids Kirby's recovery in any way (that bit of halting your fall for a bit is negligible and thus means 0 help) we are done here. I mentioned momentum canceling because I thought you might bring up or try to argue that hammer would somehow momentum canceling. --BrianDon't try me! 19:37, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Just to add my two cents: You probably are hitting the direction when you use Hammer. Change your C-Stick/Right Stick to Special. and use hammer. Sure, it slows your falling speed, but that's it. Fugudev 19:42, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Yep, and to end this (hopefully) the slower you fall, the better you can recover. Smash Master 19:52, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Did you even read what I wrote? I said the halt hammer gives you is NEGLIGIBLE, which is equivalent to saying, it doesn't help you. Also look at the gif. When Kirby swings out his hammer he stops for a bit, but then during the rest of the swinging animation he falls, so what do you gain? Nothing. Also note the hammer on it's own provides no distance, meaning the only thing moving Kirby is his own air speed.--BrianDon't try me! 20:04, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- I know it is negligible AND I knew that word for a long time. I never said it was a amazing horizontal recovery. It is a slight, I repeat, SLIGHT recovery move. Can we end this now? Smash Master 20:11, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- It would be nice to end this, but we are willing to continue this until you come to a realization that Hammer does not aid your recovery at all. It stops your momentum for a very brief moment, that doesn't help you recover, it just delays the inevitable. Kirby doesn't move any worthwhile distance while his momentum has stopped, I would say the distance is negligible, but that doesn't seem to be giving you the extent of how negligible it truly is. Once the momentum pause is over, Kirby is only moving forwards because of his own air speed, and not courtesy of Hammer. If you're looking to stop this discussion, simply don't respond. Toast
ltimatum
20:17, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- @Fugudev As you pointed out, you wern't moving Kirby when you were using his hammer, you're not gonna get any distance if you don't move in the air. Smash Master 20:38, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Well the point of the gif was to show you that hammer provides no distance whether you move or not. Moving forward while doing the hammer doesn't move Kirby farther than just moving while doing nothing. Just think about it. Compare moving forward in the air with the hammer, and without the hammer. Does halting your falling speed help you move forward? No, why should it. The only way that could happen is if the hammer gave you move distance on its own, which it clearly doesn't if you examine the gif close enough. You will move the same distance, it's just that with the hammer you will be a few pixels higher than you would be if you moved forward without the hammer. In fact those few pixels of vertical distance are so insignificant, it's practically 0 distance. --BrianDon't try me! 22:23, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- The gif should've concluded this discussion in the first place. :P Dots The PSI Asian
22:32, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Well the point of the gif was to show you that hammer provides no distance whether you move or not. Moving forward while doing the hammer doesn't move Kirby farther than just moving while doing nothing. Just think about it. Compare moving forward in the air with the hammer, and without the hammer. Does halting your falling speed help you move forward? No, why should it. The only way that could happen is if the hammer gave you move distance on its own, which it clearly doesn't if you examine the gif close enough. You will move the same distance, it's just that with the hammer you will be a few pixels higher than you would be if you moved forward without the hammer. In fact those few pixels of vertical distance are so insignificant, it's practically 0 distance. --BrianDon't try me!
- @Fugudev As you pointed out, you wern't moving Kirby when you were using his hammer, you're not gonna get any distance if you don't move in the air. Smash Master 20:38, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- It would be nice to end this, but we are willing to continue this until you come to a realization that Hammer does not aid your recovery at all. It stops your momentum for a very brief moment, that doesn't help you recover, it just delays the inevitable. Kirby doesn't move any worthwhile distance while his momentum has stopped, I would say the distance is negligible, but that doesn't seem to be giving you the extent of how negligible it truly is. Once the momentum pause is over, Kirby is only moving forwards because of his own air speed, and not courtesy of Hammer. If you're looking to stop this discussion, simply don't respond. Toast
- I know it is negligible AND I knew that word for a long time. I never said it was a amazing horizontal recovery. It is a slight, I repeat, SLIGHT recovery move. Can we end this now? Smash Master 20:11, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Did you even read what I wrote? I said the halt hammer gives you is NEGLIGIBLE, which is equivalent to saying, it doesn't help you. Also look at the gif. When Kirby swings out his hammer he stops for a bit, but then during the rest of the swinging animation he falls, so what do you gain? Nothing. Also note the hammer on it's own provides no distance, meaning the only thing moving Kirby is his own air speed.--BrianDon't try me!
- Yep, and to end this (hopefully) the slower you fall, the better you can recover. Smash Master 19:52, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Just to add my two cents:
- So long as you give up the notion that hammer aids Kirby's recovery in any way (that bit of halting your fall for a bit is negligible and thus means 0 help) we are done here. I mentioned momentum canceling because I thought you might bring up or try to argue that hammer would somehow momentum canceling. --BrianDon't try me!
- We said nothing about momentum canceling, so that is irrelevant. Besides, I prefer his up air to MC than hammer any day. Smash Master 19:32, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Hammer will not "propel" you any more distance than your normal airspeed. All it really does is leave you hanging in the air for a split second (which as we have all stated is pretty much useless) and places a hitbox in front of kirby that is easily read. The hammer does not help you momentum cancel either. You are better off using up air or forward air to momentum cancel horizontally. OT has tested this and the former (up air) is kriby's best move to MC.--BrianDon't try me!
- Thank you, that was exactally what I was trying to say all along, but they didn't get the message. -_- Smash Master 19:20, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Using hammer propels Kirby more than his air speed. That's true. ShupaRoeh
- It may not be the best move in recovery, but it still helps his horizontal recovery slightly, not significantly. Smash Master 18:21, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- Even if it does halt his falling speed, that difference is negligible and will never mean the difference between life and death. Kirby doesn't fall fast anyway and you're better off air dodging, or better yet not doing anything until an opponent tries to edgeguard you. As for firefox/firebird, those are used because Fox and Falco have no more options after a mid air jump besides illusion/phantasm. Kirby on the other hand has many other options other than hammer such as great aerials that can protect you from edgeguarding.--BrianDon't try me!
- Because it halts his falling for a brief time, but thanks for telling me (though you could easily be meteor smashed by most recovery moves such as Fire Fox). Smash Master 01:06, 29 July 2012 (EDT)
- The question still stands, why do you think it assists in horizontal recovery? Whether or not you thought it gained horizontal distance does not change the original question, which was addressing why you thought the move helped in horizontal recovery. MegaTron1XD
Guize. END THIS DISCUSSION ALREADY!! Thanks :) Bandit 22:41, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
Smash Master I suggest you take a look at the new and improved recovery page. If you feel like reverting the edit, please do provide proof (like another gif) before doing so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 1337 B33FC4K3 (talk • contribs) 19:31, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
- I tried it again, this time with 2 Kirbies. One with the hammer and the other without it. His air speed remains the same, all it does is halt his falling speed, so I guess you were right, it IS a useless recovery move, man I HATE IT when I'm wrong. >=( Smash Master 15:33, 21 August 2012 (EDT)
Ever think about improving?
It's pretty clear that your superiority complex, low attention span, and inability to learn are annoying traits that you have, which are starting to affect the Wiki from what I can see. Typing out a paragraph about this is typing out a paragraph that you wouldn't read. Need expansion on any of the points I brought up? Ask and other users can answer. MegaTron1XD 10:16, 29 July 2012 (EDT)
The superiority complex refers to holding a grudge against OT in general. Don't hold grudges. MegaTron1XD 15:22, 29 July 2012 (EDT)
- What does "holding a grudge" mean? Smash Master 16:41, 29 July 2012 (EDT)
- It means to keep being mad at someone or something.--Bandit 18:24, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
:|
Dude try this again and you'll get it: [1].
I will brawl you again then give you a matchup you don't add it for me. LightningBlue
16:48, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
- I currently don't have any wi-fi on my Wii yet, when I do, then I'll be able to Brawl you again. Smash Master 18:20, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
Not to be rude but...
Looking at the recent changes, it has come to my attention that you have developed a habit of editing other userpages: personal content you shouldn't even dare to touch without their permission. Someone has poor grammar? Bring it up on IRC, those minor edits don't matter and aren't integral to the wiki. Someone incorrectly state a matchup against you? So what? That's their opinion and you can't change that. Words and Vandalism don't change anything. If you really want to effectively change a matchup, then show them not tell them you're skill and be a silent victor. And even if that doesn't change anything, it makes you look just as bad and unsportsmanlike if you try to force it. Not saying this to be rude, but seriously stop it. Vandalism isn't tolerated on this wiki. Always go the talk page or IRC first if you want to edit a userpage. --BrianDon't try me! 18:06, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
- Sometimes I'm not always myself, I want to improve myself too. Too bad it's a slow process. Smash Master 00:44, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
- I don't know what to say or think when you state you're not "yourself." What do you mean by that? Do you mean to say, you're naturally very polite, considerate and modest outside those mishaps? Based on both your current actions and the ones of your past, I, as well as the rest of the wiki, see no reason to believe that. Maybe I am wrong, but it looks very clear to me and the rest of us that you still have a superiority complex stemming from misjudgment of your own skill. You may be above the average casual gamer, but get that lofty view that you're something special compared to the many other talented smashers in the world out of your head. Where did you get that idea from anyway? From simply winning against members of your family? Am I genius because I get an A in one class? No, I need to get As in all of my classes for that. True measure of skill comes from tournament results. Try a winning a few before you call yourself a "smash god."
- I'm sorry if I sound like a total jerk here, but I need to get the message to you somehow. A process of improvement is as fast as you want it to be. The fact you still haven't changed significantly indicates you are stubborn to change. You garner no pity when you complain that improvement is a slow process. --BrianDon't try me! 18:06, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
- I never called myself a "smash god", but sure, before I would even think about calling myself a professional fighter, I would have to do well in tounaments. I hope to get into one soon. But I would guess that I'm a semi-professional (offline), of coure that's just a guess.
- I'm sorry if I sound like a total jerk here, but I need to get the message to you somehow. A process of improvement is as fast as you want it to be. The fact you still haven't changed significantly indicates you are stubborn to change. You garner no pity when you complain that improvement is a slow process. --BrianDon't try me!
- Overall its always good to prove a statement first before you can confirm it. Dots The PSI Asian 19:31, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
- The part I like the most was when you totally forgot to respond to the whole entire paragraph. I don't think a high school should have issues with understanding a paragraph like that... 98.151.172.113 19:47, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
- What paragraph? Brian's paragraph? Smash Master 20:07, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
- There is little difference between online play and offline play. I have never heard of lag completely reducing a professional brawl player's skill to that of new player's. Lag doesn't take away the key element of professional smash:the cerebral aspect of the game. Lag should not hinder your ability to read and predict your opponent. If you think you are semi-professional, I think you may be severely underestimating the magnitude of skill needed to play at that level.--BrianDon't try me! 16:36, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
- There is little difference between online play and offline play. I have never heard of lag completely reducing a professional brawl player's skill to that of new player's. Lag doesn't take away the key element of professional smash:the cerebral aspect of the game. Lag should not hinder your ability to read and predict your opponent. If you think you are semi-professional, I think you may be severely underestimating the magnitude of skill needed to play at that level.--BrianDon't try me!
- What paragraph? Brian's paragraph? Smash Master 20:07, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
- Overall its always good to prove a statement first before you can confirm it. Dots The PSI Asian
Just to let you know
I have noticed recently that I have a poor Kirby matchup for whatever reason. If you wanna brawl me again, you know where to find me. But don't expect to win out of pure skill, you have a major handicap so don't go gloating about your +4 advantage. LightningBlue 02:58, 5 August 2012 (EDT)
- I don't put +4s until I get +4 results. Hopefully I'll get some wi-fi soon. Smash Master 17:37, 5 August 2012 (EDT)
- Ok one thing to note. MATCHUPS ARE NOT A RATIO. They are a general deduction of who would win them. You and Bandit need to stop this stupid notion. "+4 results" are when a player can never win legitimately. I do believe I could not win those matches so I will not edit that matchup. LightningBlue 19:24, 5 August 2012 (EDT)
- Lightningblue:
Ahem...
MATCHUPS ARE NOT A RATIO & You and Bandit & Stupid Notion
You are forgetting that matchups are expressed numerically, in the form of a ratio, no?--Bandit 19:46, 5 August 2012 (EDT)- Just because matchups can be extressed as ratios doesn't mean they should be. That's the reason they made the "+4" system. If you want to treat matchups as ratios (which a lot of the community thinks is wrong), then you can't use the "+4" system. Toomai Glittershine
The SMASH-GINEER 21:45, 5 August 2012 (EDT)
- Just because matchups can be extressed as ratios doesn't mean they should be. That's the reason they made the "+4" system. If you want to treat matchups as ratios (which a lot of the community thinks is wrong), then you can't use the "+4" system. Toomai Glittershine
- Lightningblue:
- Ok one thing to note. MATCHUPS ARE NOT A RATIO. They are a general deduction of who would win them. You and Bandit need to stop this stupid notion. "+4 results" are when a player can never win legitimately. I do believe I could not win those matches so I will not edit that matchup. LightningBlue
Brawl when you are ready
Fugudev and I would like to brawl you when your Wii can go wi-fi ;). FishPlay 
20:02, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
- I'm looking forward into brawling you guys too. I'll let you know. =) Smash Master 20:07, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
SW:1RV
While your violation was minor, please keep the policy in mind to prevent future edit wars. Thanks.Mr. Anon
talk 14:11, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
Just a quick explanation
When Omega Tyrant said "Never use you in an article," he meant you weren't supposed to use the word "you." Air Conditioner File:Accoolx.png 16:17, 22 August 2012 (EDT)
Relation matchups
- No one will change or stay the way they are just because you gave them a negative or positive matchup, respectively.
- People don't like you because of all the faults people have listed earlier on this talk page and the archive. Should try fixing those major faults before you rage. MegaTron1XD 19:00, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
@Smash Master I hope you know the relationship matchups on OT's page is a joke, right? Just letting you know here. Bandit 21:51, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
- I sure hope you're right. Smash Master 22:01, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
- He's not, I hate everyone. Omega Tyrant
22:30, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
- I thought SmashMaster here was one of your close friends on this wiki? Mr. Anontalk 23:25, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
- I thought SmashMaster here was one of your close friends on this wiki? Mr. Anon
- He's not, I hate everyone. Omega Tyrant
- Omega Tyrant's user relations matchup chart is a joke to show everyone how stupid relationship matchup charts are. If you haven't figured this out already, well... Air Conditioner
Now with ROLLBACK! 14:09, 17 September 2012 (EDT)
- But OT proved that he wasn't joking by saying that Bandit was wrong. Smash Master 17:44, 17 September 2012 (EDT)
- Congratulations, you can't tell sarcasm! :D Air Conditioner Now with ROLLBACK! 17:53, 17 September 2012 (EDT)
- Ok, we'll just say that its a joke so that its not necessarily true and OT's relationship matchups is a reminder that these matchups are useless. Dots The Laser 18:06, 17 September 2012 (EDT)
- @AirCon I can only tell sarcasm when I hear it, not when I see it. Smash Master 18:24, 17 September 2012 (EDT)
- If you can't tell that it's a joke just by looking at it and after others have told you... then I weep for you. Air Conditioner Now with ROLLBACK! 18:41, 17 September 2012 (EDT)
- If the joke is in this section, then I must be as blind as a bat (I'm not really blind). Smash Master 19:55, 17 September 2012 (EDT)
- No, OT's MATCHUP CHART is a joke. It's a criticism of users who have relationship matchup charts. Air Conditioner Now with ROLLBACK! 19:56, 18 September 2012 (EDT)
- If thats the case then the best thing for me to do is remove the matchup chart. Smash Master 20:00, 18 September 2012 (EDT)
- It's no joke, it's what I really think of everyone. Omega Tyrant 20:01, 18 September 2012 (EDT)
- As he pointed out before, it is NOT a joke. :p Smash Master 20:03, 18 September 2012 (EDT)
- OT is pointing out that relationship matchup charts are rude and stupid. That is the point of his relationship chart. Him putting almost everyone on -4 is also just a plain joke. Dots The Safari 20:29, 18 September 2012 (EDT)
- Whether a joke or not, these relationship matchups are fucking stupid and pointless, accomplishing nothing other than pissing people off. Though you do have a right to show them and they don't break any specific policy, what you can say≠what you should say. It would be better if everyone just kept their opinions and/or satires to themselves. DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER} 22:55, 18 September 2012 (EDT)
- OT is pointing out that relationship matchup charts are rude and stupid. That is the point of his relationship chart. Him putting almost everyone on -4 is also just a plain joke. Dots The Safari
- As he pointed out before, it is NOT a joke. :p Smash Master 20:03, 18 September 2012 (EDT)
- It's no joke, it's what I really think of everyone. Omega Tyrant
- If thats the case then the best thing for me to do is remove the matchup chart. Smash Master 20:00, 18 September 2012 (EDT)
- No, OT's MATCHUP CHART is a joke. It's a criticism of users who have relationship matchup charts. Air Conditioner
- If the joke is in this section, then I must be as blind as a bat (I'm not really blind). Smash Master 19:55, 17 September 2012 (EDT)
- If you can't tell that it's a joke just by looking at it and after others have told you... then I weep for you. Air Conditioner
- @AirCon I can only tell sarcasm when I hear it, not when I see it. Smash Master 18:24, 17 September 2012 (EDT)
- Congratulations, you can't tell sarcasm! :D Air Conditioner
- But OT proved that he wasn't joking by saying that Bandit was wrong. Smash Master 17:44, 17 September 2012 (EDT)
This conversation has been going on for a while and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, going more and more away from the wiki. Doesn't it count as an outside conversation under SW:TALK. Mr. Anontalk 00:30, 19 September 2012 (EDT)
- How the hell is it getting "away from the wiki"? It's concerning an issue that has come up on multiple user talk pages. You're right that it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, but don't bring in policies where they clearly don't apply. DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER}
As much as I love to disagree with OT, I 100% agree with him here. Y'all got trolled, his relationship matchup chart was a joke, and all relationship matchup charts are retarded and the opposite of constructive, much like the above argument. Can we drop it now? (Also, Anon, this is wiki business, that policy doesn't apply, DP99 is right, etc., etc.) PenguinofDeath 10:25, 19 September 2012 (EDT)
