User talk:Kadano

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Hi there![edit]


Welcome to our wiki, and thank you for your contributions to our hitbox pages! There's a lot to do around here, so I hope you'll stay with us and make many more improvements.

Recent changes is a great first stop, because you can see what other people are editing right this minute, and where you can help.
Questions? You can ask at the help desk or on the "discussion" page associated with each article, or post a message on my talk page!
Need help? The community portal has an outline of the site, and pages to help you learn how to edit.

I'm really happy to have you here, and look forward to working with you!

Awesome Cardinal 2000 19:32, 28 May 2013 (EDT)

Excellent Work on the Marth page[edit]

What you added for Marth's up tilt is definitely what the wiki needs. Let us work together to finish the rest of the moves! More frame data for Marth can be found here --BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 01:35, 29 May 2013 (EDT)

A quick tip[edit]

When editing on the Wiki, avoid using "you". Other than that, keep up the great work. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 09:59, 3 June 2013 (EDT)

Thanks, I will! Kadano (talk) 10:08, 3 June 2013 (EDT)


hey dude. i was looking to make some gifs and was wondering how you got all of the level to disappear for your hitbox gifs?

DJLO (talk) 15:45, 24 September 2013 (EDT)

Hey! I use develop mode, accessible within the debug menu. By pressing X+↓ you can make all stage elements visibly disappear. Kadano (talk) 15:49, 24 September 2013 (EDT)
excellent! thanks for the reply, my content creating brother :)

DJLO (talk) 16:32, 25 September 2013 (EDT)

hitboxes pt 2[edit]

ok so for the hitbox images, you: 1. turn on "view hitboxes" 2. turn off stages graphics and 3: what do you do for the camera? are you in camera mode, or just 1 player melee? lastly, are you the same person on smashboards who makes the hitbox gifs? thanks DJLO (talk) 14:01, 27 September 2013 (EDT)

Depends on what hitbox gifs you refer to. Those posted by the user Kadano are mine, but the other are not.
To change camera mode, press ↑ (always on d-pad, but I guess you figured that out already). To zoom in and out, hold ← and move the C-stick up and down. To move the camera, hold → and move the C-stick accordingly. For more debug mode inputs, see the guide on TCRF or this gameFAQ. Kadano (talk) 06:15, 28 September 2013 (EDT)
thanks mam! DJLO (talk) 01:48, 29 September 2013 (EDT)

auto cancel[edit]

hey dude. could you make a gif comparing the auto cancel to a no-technique aerial(well, short hop fast fall no l cancel). the article for autocancelling only has the gif for autocancel versus lcancel, and it seems to make more since to have auto cancel versus no cancel. love your gifs man, keep it up :) DJLO (talk) 13:02, 3 October 2013 (EDT)

I don’t think it would make more sense to have a non-l-canceled aerial. When I made the gif, I considered that option as well, but decided against it because I felt it would overstate autocancel’s advantages. In competitive play, L-canceling everything is expected and the autocancel article assumes a competitive paradigm anyway as casual players in general don’t care about such in-depth technical knowledge.
Still, if you provide a sound argument why it would be better to have it your way, I’ll happily make the gif, I have almost if not all of the frames lying around anyway. Kadano (talk) 13:08, 3 October 2013 (EDT)

Control Stick Picture[edit]

What about the zones where you can angle your shield or input shield DI?--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 11:06, 7 October 2013 (EDT)

Every white pixel corresponds to shield angling. I’ll add a note about this, thank you. Kadano (talk) 11:09, 7 October 2013 (EDT)
But isn't any stick direction and strength able to angle shield if not tapped fast enough? Toomai Glittershine ??? The Metroid 11:10, 7 October 2013 (EDT)
No, every stick position within the dead zone (106-150 for both x and y) always behaves the same as neutral (128,128). Kadano (talk) 11:12, 7 October 2013 (EDT)
I totally misunderstood you, Toomai. Yes, the outer zones can angle the shield as well. My input-output maps are for 1-frame stick movements so this information is not integrated. Kadano talk 06:54, 16 October 2014 (EDT)

Some gifs the wiki may need?[edit]

Hello. For the powershield article is it possible for you to make gifs that demonstrate 2 things. 1: dashing helps you powershield projectiles better. 2: Crouching and waiting for a projectile to pass also makes it easier. Thanks--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 23:19, 7 October 2013 (EDT)

I can do that, although there's more to it than just being easier when crouching or dashing / running. I'll explain it in the article. Kadano (talk) 03:34, 8 October 2013 (EDT)
Working on the powershield gifs? I'm curious to know why crouching and dashing at lasers make powershield reflection easier. Also 2 more things. 1. Are space animals invincible for the entire duration of this tech? 2. Could you make a gif demonstrating the frames and inputs of the tech similar to the one you made for Marth? Thanks--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 01:07, 11 October 2013 (EDT)
It’s all very complicated and hard to illustrate with a single gif. I haven’t forgot about it, I just still haven’t figured out how I can explain this well.
1. No, they are not. 2. Yeah, my process is fairly automated by now so this shouldn’t be much work. I’m hosting a smashfest this weekend, so maybe it will take until Monday until I get to finish this. Kadano talk 19:21, 11 October 2013 (EDT)

Gifs for the Wavedash/Out of shield pages[edit]

Hi, I was going to upload of a gif demonstrating how the wavedash out of shield is an invaluable tool to dealing with space animal pressure. This is the gif I made (It's actually me doing the wavedashing), but I wanted to ask 2 things. 1. Is it actually possible to get a grab from the wavedash out of shield? (My guess is no, but when I tried to do it in the gif I thought I could grab him out of second shine or when he was jumping out if I was faster) 2. If you could get a punish, could you make a gif demonstrating the frames you need to do it in? Thanks --BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 16:52, 15 January 2014 (EST)

That gif has about 10 fps, so it’s impossible for me to tell what’s going on. If you give me a video time link, preferably 60 fps, I can look into it. My guess is that there is no guaranteed punish in that situation, though. Kadano talk 16:56, 15 January 2014 (EST)
Yea it might be hard to see the second shine, so here's the source.--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 16:58, 15 January 2014 (EST)
I would have to download the first 30 minutes just to be able to analyze these 5 seconds which just isn't worth the hassle for me. From my experience and research so far, what I can tell you is that if he did what it looked like to me (shine hits shield → wd → another shine that doesn't hit your shield → full jump), it would have easily been possible to wd grab in time. I don't want to go in detail about how Falco's choices could be punished as he had so many other good options as well. Kadano talk 21:38, 21 January 2014 (EST)


How about you make a gif demonstrating how to SDI Fox's up throw up air! I've seen Kirbykaze's method where you DI one way and SDI the other way, but I still get hit roughly 60-70% of the time. Button inputs would be really helpful since I don't know whether you actually need to quarter circle for the right SDI; I just flick the sticks up or left/right and pray. --BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 10:44, 13 February 2014 (EST)

Hey. Couldn’t reply earlier because I was at BEAST 4. I won’t make a gif of it, but I will include this situation in my video guide notes. As soon as I’ve gotten into Avisynth scripts (which is probably the only video creating program that will end up fulfilling my needs), I’ll start making these video guides. Kadano talk 20:20, 16 February 2014 (EST)

Marth ledge jump -> neutral b[edit]

How strict is the timing for that? Is it frame perfect? And what angle on the control stick do you press (fast fall or not fast fall)? Thanks--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 04:34, 28 March 2014 (EDT)

1. After your drop, you can fall for 10 frames longer than perfect before you jump and still get the ledge grab (assuming you do the B input afterwards frame perfect). So that’s a jump input leniency of 10 frames. If you fast fall from the ledge, you have a jump input leniency of 3. For the B input after the jump, your maximum leniency is 3. So, if you drop, jump the next frame, then wait for 4 frames and then press B, you will miss the ledge.
Of course, you can distribute your total leniency among those three variables. For example, you can fall for 3 frames, fast fall for 1 frame, then jump and delay your B input by another frame and you will still grab the ledge. Just remember that one frame B delay is more than one frame jump delay.
2. Here are the control stick values for actions available from the ledge: File:CliffWait_ANA_options.png Kadano talk 05:05, 28 March 2014 (EDT)

To follow up on this discussion, I think you should put this on your perfect Marth class thread. Other stuff I think people would like to know are the frame data leniency for ledge hop up air -> regrab and the double fair from the ledge. Gifs would also be appreciated if you have time!--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 13:36, 24 April 2014 (EDT)

Good idea! I’m currently trying to get a video series started in which I explain mechanics, and I think it would be easier to show the possible leniencies that way. If you want to see a preview of how the project looks write now, here is a link to an early version of the first introduction video: I want to make these videos as good and helpful as possible, so if you have criticism or improvement ideas, please tell me! Kadano talk 15:29, 26 April 2014 (EDT)

Who is the best Marth in Europe?[edit]

Salepate? Or Ice's pocket Marth (if he still uses it)? Also does ledge hop -> double fair frame perfect inputs? --BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 21:56, 19 May 2014 (EDT)

Yes, most probably Salepate. Ice completely stopped using his Marth. Reaper, also from Germany, might be on Salepates level, but I don’t think he ever traveled outside of Germany, at least within the last 2 years.
Ledge hop double fair has 1 frame leniency you can use for either of the two fairs. Kadano talk 10:50, 20 May 2014 (EDT)
I think Strawhat Dahean might be a contender if he is still active. Also thanks for the pivoting info. --BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 15:52, 20 May 2014 (EDT)

Marth's perfect wavedash.[edit]

Does Marth stay silent when he does a wavedash perfectly?--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 00:08, 7 July 2014 (EDT)

I believe all characters in the game stay silent when a wavedash is performed perfectly. Chilex (talk) 00:32, 7 July 2014 (EDT)
No. He always does the “ugh” sound when he wavelands. Kadano talk 00:48, 7 July 2014 (EDT)


I got a question for you, see here: DJLO (talk) 17:06, 7 August 2014 (EDT)

Marth Killer Questions[edit]

  1. What is the best way to angle your shield? I've had various sources that say completely horizontal (the angle I use) but also other sources saying you do it diagonally downward toward the edge.
  2. Does it still work if your shield density is full or not completely light?

Thanks --BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 02:44, 15 September 2014 (EDT)

  1. Minimal tilt is sufficient.
  2. As long as you don’t get shield stabbed, yes. Kadano talk 02:56, 15 September 2014 (EDT)

Marth aerial interupts.[edit]

Are there any aerials Marth can use to aerial interrupt from the ledge or on a platform?--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 03:00, 25 September 2014 (EDT)

Yes, dair. See my main post on grounded actionable intangibility. Execution is explained here by hectohertz, who also found it. Kadano talk 03:48, 26 September 2014 (EDT)

A gif of the optimal way to SDI Fox's up throw up air?[edit]

I'm surprised nobody thought to put this on the Marth class.--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 18:07, 27 October 2014 (EDT)

It’s complicated as hell. If I explained everything there is to it, the post would be too long and complicated for most readers. Even for me probably. Kadano talk 18:25, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
It is even possible to SDI the up throw up air consistently? I think even Mew2king doesn't hit the SDI multiple times in a single match so I have a theory that you can't actually do it at certain percents.--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 18:31, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
There are percent+DI+execution combinations where 1SDI+ASDI is not enough to escape the second hit. Kadano talk 18:41, 27 October 2014 (EDT)

A possible ledge option?[edit]

Hi. I was talking to Hectohertz and ledge options and we thought about the possibility of an invincible no impact landing as a ledge option. Have you done any tests of the sort? If so, how many actionable frames of invincibility would you get?--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 17:18, 13 January 2015 (EST)

Ah I see you made a chart. In any case I spotted an inconsistency. Your chart says Marth gets 1 frame but in another thread you said Marth gets 2. Which one is it?--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 17:53, 13 January 2015 (EST)

Provide a link to where I wrote 2, please. Kadano talk 08:13, 14 January 2015 (EST)
Here you go. Also would a No-impact land onto Yoshi's platform grant more invincibility than NIL to the floor?--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 16:11, 14 January 2015 (EST)
Alright, I see. 1 frame is correct, I’ll edit the post accordingly. Kadano talk 17:20, 14 January 2015 (EST)
And no, Yoshi’s Story does not provide any benefit. Kadano talk 17:57, 14 January 2015 (EST)

A couple of questions.[edit]

1. Does GuardReflect (reflecting projectile with powershielding) prevent the GuardDamage animation (shield stun)?

2. What's the difference between an aerial interupt and an No Impact Land?

Thanks.--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 16:30, 19 January 2015 (EST)

1. Yes, for projectiles that is true.
2. Aerial interrupts are when you land due to an attack animation’s downward ECB shift, so it has either impact landing lag or AttackAir landing lag (depending on whether you land during an auto-cancel frame, watch the video for details). Kadano talk 17:21, 19 January 2015 (EST)

Have you written anything on Pivot Drops?[edit]

Per title. --BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 22:38, 3 February 2015 (EST)

No idea what that’s supposed to be, sorry. Kadano talk 20:22, 17 February 2015 (EST)
A pivot drop is when you do you a dash pivot into an edgehog. Described by Zhu to be "probably the single hardest thing to do consistently in Melee."--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 01:18, 18 February 2015 (EST)
Reason why I ask because based on my (admittedly poor and limited) understanding of it, I think using it would be faster than all the methods used here.--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 01:38, 18 February 2015 (EST)
Oh, that. Yes, I usually refer to it as “pivot edgehog” because that’s its primary application. Within the OP of my Marth thread, there’s a link to a detailed post about it and why it is so hard. Kadano talk 04:58, 18 February 2015 (EST)

Why did this work?[edit]

This. In fact are there general circumstances that allow a forward smash on dreamland platform?--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 10:52, 2 March 2015 (EST)

During the missed tech animation (DownBoundU), Fox’s tail and thus its hurtbubble extend below the platform, enabling Marth’s fsmash tipper hitbubble to connect. Kadano talk 17:42, 2 March 2015 (EST)

What's the best way to wrap your controller?[edit]

Any videos? Threads?--BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 03:38, 29 June 2015 (EDT)

Dude … Kadano talk 04:21, 29 June 2015 (EDT)
Oh ok that looks good. Some other things people have told me you may consider: MacD wraps his controller into a necklace. Taki, the best Fox player in my region, actually folds his controller chord and ties it with a rubber band. Nakamaru, the best Falcon player here, wraps his controller the same way MacD does except since he doesn't use a white controller chord, he hooks it on to a carabiner on his belt. What do you think of those methods? --BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 12:48, 5 July 2015 (EDT)
The necklace method sounds nice for large tournaments. Is there a video tutorial for it? Kadano talk 14:40, 5 July 2015 (EDT)
Yeah. Here you go! I don't think older controllers with their short chords can create a necklace, but if you loop it again once more you can hang it on your belt with a hook of some sort. Regarding Taki's folding method, I think that actually causes the least damage to the wire, but the problem is having to tie with a rubber band constantly. --BrianDon't try me!Falco.gif 15:46, 5 July 2015 (EDT)

Item drop chance?[edit]

What's the chance of dropping an item when hit by an attack dealing over 60 damage? Is it 100%? – Smiddle 13:44, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

Yes, 100%. I playtested it (176 damage attack always caused turnip drop). Kadano talk 13:50, 29 September 2015 (EDT)


I saw some videos about you, you look good at smash! PoultrysigSSB4.pngPoultryPoultrysigSSBM.png(talk) the God-Slayer 19:31, 2 May 2016 (EDT)


I heard about your suggestion of putting Reeling in the hitstun article. Juju1995 (talk) 01:36, 8 January 2017 (EST)