Talk:Smash Remix

Page instead of redirect

All 5 replies were fine with page creation, that's whay I thought it's time to go for it. https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Smash_Remix_content&t=20220111113249 Patzui (talk) 13:05, January 31, 2022 (EST)

The proposal hasn't closed yet, so technically this discussion is still ongoing. That being said, it's been open for over a year now and it's mostly support, so I don't see a reason to not make a page unless new opposition comes up. CookiesCreme 13:09, January 31, 2022 (EST)

I took another look at the proposal. 2 people support (or somewhat support) option 2, while 3 people support option 3. That's not really enough for a consensus, so I'm taking back my previous statement. I'll try to see if anyone else has any input on this. CookiesCreme 13:19, January 31, 2022 (EST)

Imo it's like no consensus on icons & character pages, but a consensus on tournament tables & page creation Patzui (talk) 14:04, January 31, 2022 (EST)

In general, if a consensus on a contentious topic like this hasn't yet been reached, don't try to implement the changes early, even if there's a simple majority supporting the change. Alex the Weeb 13:59, January 31, 2022 (EST)

Costumes/References

We should have a page for the different palettes and references of every character, I mean Project M did so why can't Remix? either we make pages for the smash remix versions of these characters or we make a section for the costume references.

Boltx74Boltx (talk) 18:14, April 16, 2023 (EDT)

Project M doesn't have a page for alternate costumes, they are listed on the individual character articles. A proposal for giving Smash Remix the same treatment as Project M is in the works (Forum:Smash Remix content Part 2). --CanvasK (talk) 18:40, April 16, 2023 (EDT)

YouTube Channel

Their YouTube channel got terminated but is it confirmed to be by Nintendo or is that just speculation? Thegameandwatch The Nerd 03:17, January 6, 2024 (EST)

They confirmed the reason why their YouTube channel got terminated. RandomGame57 I don't really know 09:39, January 7, 2024 (CET)

Alright, their YouTube channel has been brought back. Let's hope their unfair deletion doesn't happen again. RandomGame57 I don't really know 09:51, January 8, 2024 (CET)

Series symbols on a higher definition (For the To-Do list)

The ones original to the mod. No A.I. upscaling, please.

XeroSchnee20 (talk) 21:58, July 5, 2025 (EDT)

Bonus vs. Boss

There really isn't enough of a distinction between the two to be worth delineation. Like, until a month ago, they were all just considered "boss" characters anyway; the fact that multiple "boss" characters now also count as bonus characters just further emphasizes how meaningless the distinction is. Functionally, "bonus" just means "anyone who doesn't have a dedicated slot on the CSS". It's a pointless distinction that only muddies the waters, and there's no reason not to just group them together, the same way we no longer group returning stages by individual games on the page. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 18:16, July 26, 2025 (EDT)

Okay, how about this: if a character is in the "Boss characters" section it means that the character is not tournament legal and cannot be compared to the rest of the roster. And the "Bonus characters" section just mean any character not on the regular css that is tournament legal. And we add a note saying something like "(Note: Boss characters are illegal for tournament use)"nowhere else on the article lists the specific characters that are not for tournaments. This will be more effective than just calling them the same thing when there are some pretty notable differences. K1ng5m3n24 (talk) 17:57, July 26, 2025 (CDT)

Except that at that point, it's trying to come up with a problem to fit a solution; it's not like other Smash pages have to denote tournament legality or which characters are banned in their tables, so we shouldn't have to here either. There's no reason that we can't just note which bonus characters are/aren't tournament legal on their pages (as is already being done for the most part), and it doesn't address the problem of there being so much overlap between the two that it ceases to be a meaningful difference. Like, Boss character doesn't mean "anyone overpowered", because Polygons are bosses and they're all worse than their standard versions, and Dragon King's overpowered but not considered a boss. Boss also doesn't mean "selected with the D Pad", because that also includes regional variants, and they're not bosses. And as mentioned before, Ebi, Piano, and the Spacies are considered bosses, but they're also bonus characters. In the end, trying to create a weird delineation between the two when there's so much overlap and no hard or fast rules is wholly unnecessary, and it makes far more sense to make the only dividing line be "has a character slot" vs "doesn't have a character slot", the same way it's always been on this page. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 20:57, July 26, 2025 (EDT)

Ok you said "it's not like other Smash pages have to denote tournament legality or which characters are banned in their tables, so we shouldn't have to here either." Except that other Smash pages don't really have competitively playable boss characters such as Giga Bowser, Metal Mario or Mad Piano (the character who was literally designed to be a boss for the soon-to-come Remix 1P mode). When I had edited the list to show Polygons and Master Hand as bosses and not characters such as Ebisumaru or Dragon King, it was purely an example of what could be and was open to corrections, and not a complete refusal and denial of the idea by one guy who doesn't like it. You don't solely run the SR wiki and don't need to watch over every small change like a lingering hawk. Clearly we need more input on the Bonus vs. Boss concept but be open to ideas in the future dude, one tweak in the format is not the end of the world. K1ng5m3n24 (talk) 20:35, July 26, 2025 (CDT)

Would appreciate you sticking to SW:AGF and SW:NPA; we're here to discuss page formatting, not anyone's editing habits. And Smash 64 does actually discuss the competitive legality of its bosses on their character pages. My point is as I said before, there's not enough meaningful differences between "bosses" and "bonuses" (remember, they were one and the same until a month ago), and it doesn't seem like there's good reason to try and divide the two aside from change for change's sake. If it ain't broke, why fix it? -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 21:59, July 26, 2025 (EDT)

It's not broken, it's just not helpful, I'm just saying that if the developers of the mod literally separate them from the rest of the cast in tier lists and stuff then why don't we? And also on Metal Mario's page (for 64 not remix) it literally says that even though he can be used perfectly fine in competitive play with the right modifications to stop crashes, he is still banned because he is a "boss character." Boss battles are not for competitive play and I feel that it would be helpful for the wiki to tell everyone right there on the characters page who is and isn't a boss, rather than people who don't already know having to scour through the character's page to find out if they are a boss or not. K1ng5m3n24 (talk) 21:23, July 26, 2025 (CDT)

That's not really the kind of thing you put in character tables. Meta Knight isn't labeled as banned on the Brawl character table. Other near-bans like SSB4 Bayo and SSBU Steve aren't listed as such on their table. Competitive play isn't the be-all-end-all, and just like the main game articles limit their competitive details to specific subsections and separate pages, Remix should be treated the same way. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 22:28, July 26, 2025 (EDT)

It's not about being the be-all-end-all, it's just a little tidbit of information that some people might find interesting and maybe invest into and then maybe get into competitive play even? Boss characters don't even have to completely mean "not competitively viable" it could just mean they are simply a boss character. Because I've noticed that all the characters considered "boss characters" are or were at some point a d-pad up variants. And then the "bonus characters" are for non-64-relevant characters or just ones that are on the bonus section of the css for whatever reason. Smash Remix is a mod open to all play styles, competitive or not but that doesn't mean we shouldn't acknowledge both sides or favor one over another? It should be equally interesting and fascinating to both sides of the community. That's why it's a wiki, people come here to find interesting or cool facts about the things they like. K1ng5m3n24 (talk) 21:54, July 26, 2025 (CDT)

Again, that's not a thing that you should put in the character table. Including competitive information IS good, but it should go on individual character pages and dedicated competitive play subsections, just like every main game. Also, let's ponder the definition of "Boss character just means they are a boss character" for a second. By the critera already set for the proposed "bosses" (i.e. Ebi, Piano, Metal Bros, the Spacies, Giga Bowser, Super Sonic, Polygons), a boss character is defined as anyone who only appears in Remix 1P on specific stages (4, 9, 10, and 11) and not on the general character stages. So that list includes...every bonus character but Dragon King. See what I mean when I say there's not a meaningful difference? -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 23:13, July 26, 2025 (EDT)

If the difference is not meaningful at all then why are they banned? If they are all the same kind of characters, then Super Sonic and Giant Donkey Kong are just as tournament legal as Dr. Luigi and Lanky Kong. Right? Wouldn't that just make sense then? What makes a bad bOnUs character like Metal Luigi banned compared to good regular characters such as Marth or Falco? What do these pseudo-bonus characters have that bans them compared to the others that are just perfectly fine and able to compete? Just curious now. K1ng5m3n24 (talk) 22:29, July 26, 2025 (CDT)

Being a "boss" isn't the only reason a character is banned. If new Roy tech is suddenly discovered tomorrow that makes him so unbelievably good that he is banned from all tournaments, that doesn't make him a boss. Also, the Polygons aren't banned, so it doesn't even apply to all "bosses". If the two categories are going to be divided, there needs to be concrete criteria for what does and doesn't qualify, and the fact that characters like Ebi, Piano, and the Spacies are considered both is evidence that any attempt would not be especially helpful. Like, why not just make a "competitive play" section like every other Smash game (i.e. this, this, this, this, or this), where information about character legality is welcomed and is normally the place you're supposed to put that stuff? Why break protocol just to shoehorn it into the character table based on an arbitrary criteria? -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 23:39, July 26, 2025 (EDT)

Okay obviously the Polygons are not bosses I just had them on their because they weren't on the bonus section of the css but they can be bonus characters anyways or just not listed like Master Hand isn't for whatever reason. Anyways it isn't an "arbitrary criteria" it's commonly used within the Smash Remix community as referring to the boss characters. But I guess in the logic you are providing, Giant Donkey Kong, besides being bottom tier, and utter horse junk is just sO uNbElIvAbLy bRoKeN!!1!1!1 that they had to ban him despite being a bonus character like Roy. It's not about "breaking protocol" there are many ways to work around "b r e a k I n g p r o t o c o l" but they just aren't being considered because the idea is not welcomed even though it is undeniably helpful information and makes perfect sense. - K1ng5m3n24 (talk) 23:12, July 26, 2025 (CDT)

But per Giant Donkey Kong, "Due to his changes arguably making him worse than the regular character, it's argued that the metagame impact of Giant Donkey Kong's unbanning would be minimal, making the ban irrational." If this eventually leads to the character being unbanned, that doesn't mean he stops being a boss. That's what I mean by arbitrary criteria. And again, why does this all need to be in the character table and not where you normally put it, in a competitive play section? -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 00:30, July 27, 2025 (EDT)

It would be in the character table because there is a difference between bonus characters and boss characters. Considering it being common terminology within the community, completely refusing to put it in is just pointless, and also very questionable. And besides we don't have a "in competitive play" section like official Smash titles. And if you want to stay within p r o t o c o l so much then we should probably have a competitive section just as they do. It's just helpful to the wiki to be clear to the community about these things, we could just simply say that a boss character is or was at some point a d-pad "up" variant. Easy solution. - K1ng5m3n24 (talk) 23:55, July 26, 2025 (CDT)

That's what I've been saying. Make a competitive play section, and put the information about character bans there. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 01:07, July 27, 2025 (EDT)

That's a lot of indents for a very lengthy discussion.
My opinion, both as a staff member trying to moderate a lengthy discussion and as someone trying to have a legitimate stake in said discussion, is that "bonus" just means a character that isn't playable in the original game—it holds more significance here given that, of the mods to add characters, I'm fairly certain this one has the most. It seems rather silly to segregate between "bonus" and "boss" if there's no real distinction to be made in the first place.
As for the lack of an "in competitive play" section, I probably am not the best person to weigh in on this particular part given my lack of attachment to the overall competitive scene of Smash, but of note is that the Project M page also does not have an "in competitive play" section, though that may be because PM was more geared towards competitive play to begin with. The individual fighter pages do, however, have those sections just the same as regular fighter pages, and I fail to see why the Smash Remix character pages couldn't do the same, barring a lack of results to use. Aidan the Gamer 01:24, July 27, 2025 (EDT)

I appreciate the input! Given this, I think the best way forward is to leave the table as is (i.e. returning characters, new characters that have their own slot, new characters that don't have a slot), and add a general competitive play subsection talking about Remix's use to facilitate vanilla 64 tournaments due to QOL changes, some of the side events held since the mod began, general rulesets and meta if there's data to back them up, any character bans, etc., with additional details on the relevant individual character pages. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 01:37, July 27, 2025 (EDT)

Yet don't fully dismiss boss characters as a whole for it being such commonly used slang for these characters. They are still boss characters at the end of the day. But this discussion is still open for others to input into and advance upon further ideas and conclusions. - K1ng5m3n24 (talk) 00:42, July 27, 2025 (CDT)

C'mon. You've got two other people, one of them staff, offering a very reasonable way to convey the same information that's also consistent with other articles on the wiki. Genuinely, what's the problem? -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 01:43, July 27, 2025 (EDT)

I'm saying the table can stay, fine whatever it is what it is. But to whoever makes the competitive page whether it be you, me, or someone else seeing this, to still acknowledge boss characters. Because like y'know, they're banned. - K1ng5m3n24 (talk) 00:47, July 27, 2025 (CDT)

Actually, I ended up doing research to put together the section, and it turns out there isn't a hard ban on anyone. The scene is still too new, and no widely agreed upon rules have been set. Not even all the playtesters agree on who should and shouldn't be banned, outside of Giga, Super, Piano, and the bans inherited from 64; opinions on guys like Ebi and the Spacies vary. The current section acknowledges the bosses and the "probably should be banned" status for those few, but also reflects that, as it stands, nothing is truly set in stone at the moment. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 02:50, July 27, 2025 (EDT)

The page looks good dude 👍 and I feel like some characters we can probably for sure just say are bosses would be characters that specifically appear on stages 9 and 11 of Remix 1P, and the ones from 64's 1P Mode. With those characters being Giant DK, Metal Bros., Piano, Super, Giga, and Master Hand. And the other characters are up for community discussion. But, as we concluded not all of those have to be banned because Giant DK and the Metals are garbage. And I apologize for any previous guideline violations I may have committed in this discussion, I am relatively new to the wiki. (Not the game, I'm just new to the wiki. I'm very familiar with this game) - K1ng5m3n24 (talk) 02:09, July 27, 2025 (CDT)

Easter Eggs/Secrets

Should we create a separate section for secrets in the game rather than just cramming them all in the "Trivia" section? Such as the DK Mode, Smashketball, and Player Tag easter eggs. Because eventually if more stuff gets discovered, that trivia section is going to fill up with all of those rather than real trivia. And I know official Smash titles don't have a section like that, but The Akanea Build does have a dedicated "Easter Eggs" section, and it's pretty filled out, as well as its separate "Trivia" section. - K1ng5m3n24 (talk) 23:06, August 7, 2025 (CDT)

I think that's fair, especially if there are a ton crammed in. Aidan the Gamer 01:21, August 8, 2025 (EDT)

Pigmask Fortress

I don't think that it actually COMES from EB64. I think it's more so designed after that version of M3 MG64 (talk) 16:12, September 13, 2025 (EDT)

Thoughts on a specific dev section ?

Some people have gone on specifics about what they have added to the game. for example, i believe Halofactory did the pitfall item. Fray designed and did majorty of work on Falco, Wario, marth, mewtwo, mad piano, lanky, slippy. dr. luigi was designed by sope. Onifox did the victory images for Mad Piano, Dragon King, Dark Samus, Roy, Dr. Luigi, and Lanky- etc. I kinda wanna add this to the page as trivia/specific crediting but don't want it to be spammy / messy. thoughts? - magik