Talk:RetroSSBBRank

On similar grounds of Talk:Top 100 Smash Bros. Players of All Time, this page is based just one reddit user's opinion without any community backing.

Delete Omegα Toαd, the Toαd Wαrrior. (BUP) 09:48, February 16, 2021 (EST)

Keep: Similar reasons to why the Top 100 Smash Bros. Players of All Time page should be kept, it's not like we have a glut of Brawl PR's from this era. PR's in general can be subjective no matter how many people are working on them, if you remove one you might as well remove all of them. JFMV763 (talk) 15:49, February 16, 2021 (EST)

Keep discussion to here<note, this formerly linked to the now deleted Talk:Top 100 Smash Players of All Time> instead of splitting it between the two pages. Also the amount of Brawl rankings out there is completely irrelevant, scarcity doesn't give this ranking any more credibility than any other random person making their own ranking. Omega Tyrant 19:29, February 16, 2021 (EST)

Keep. https://twitter.com/ADHD_93/status/1362987839538003970 I asked ADHD and he immediately verified it. This should curb any issues of notability for the ranking.Barnard's Loop (talk) 23:52, February 19, 2021 (EST)

Further confirmation from a DM discussion with Gardex, a member of the Brawl Bois. [1]. Barnard's Loop (talk) 16:27, February 20, 2021 (EST)

Keep. Even though orange_ssbu doesn't have much credibility, with ADHD, Poyo, and Luigisama all verifying the legitimacy of the rankings, I feel like this can stay. CookiesCreme 23:59, February 19, 2021 (EST)

Keep Notability seems to be established. Wiifitkid (talk) 09:22, February 20, 2021 (EST)

→ moved from Talk:Top 100 Smash Players of All Time

Keep. Or, at least keep Retro SSBBRank. It is, to my understanding, a well-researched project that has variably had some segments published on non-reddit websites and is very detailed in its descriptions. Brawl discussions I've had with other people who've dug into the scene back the veracity of RetroSSBBRank. A traditional non-panel methodology that is largely non-subjective would be very difficult due to the volume of lost Brawl-era data, and I don't think burying the ranking helps preserving the scene or encouraging independent work that's defined the Smash scene's data collection for the past 5 years. It additionally considers non-USA scenes in its rankings, something the only official Brawl ranking did not do in 2014, which led to a cascading effect on following rankings & scene organizer perceptions that weren't adequately addressed until 2017. I understand that standards must be kept, but it's clear to me that the standards applied here were more than an average opinionated forum post. I can't speak to the veracity or quality of the Top 100 list (I'm only on this page since discussion on orange ssbu's stuff is here), but I would implore the site's editors to keep the Brawl ranking in the event this particular page is deleted, as it is a well-researched piece that likely took proper time & research to make. Barnard's Loop (talk) 15:06, February 17, 2021 (EST)

Effort and research doesn't help with the issue that it's still ultimately just one guy's opinion, and it's not like other personal rankings and the like out there didn't have people put any effort and research into them too. And it's not the wiki's place to be an encouragement for people to do their own independent work, we're just covering what's deemed relevant and sufficiently noteworthy to Smash in an encyclopedic-style, not to exist as an arbiter of validation. However, if evidence can be provided that the current Brawl community backs RetroSSBBRank, that can suffice for notability despite the unorthodox creation behind it. Omega Tyrant 15:57, February 17, 2021 (EST)

I'm not sure how to exactly demonstrate Brawl community backing outside of my personal connections who've studied Brawl agreeing with it. The "current Brawl community" is essentially just the Ultimate community since Brawl has been abandoned outside of a few scattered discords to my knowledge. The most work I could personally do to back it with sources would take the kind of time & research designed to create it, and I'm not sure who to reference outside of 16bit and maybe Zan. The ranking itself seems to be backed at least by ADHD and Poyo, since the latter contributed with fact checks and the former gave responses and interviews. Mew2King was aware of it as well and did not seem to be critical. Former PG Staff Tetra, a major figure in Japan translations for Smash 4 who knew a ton about the scene, also regularly responded. Barnard's Loop (talk) 16:39, February 18, 2021 (EST)

Can you get in contact with the Brawl Bois (i.e. the guys behind the 2018-19 SSBBRank) and see if they approve of RetroSSBBRank? If so, that would be enough for RetroSSBBRank to stay. Omega Tyrant 19:47, February 19, 2021 (EST)

I have messaged Gardex. I'll report back with any response. Barnard's Loop (talk) 21:07, February 19, 2021 (EST)

Updates and sources are posted to the Retro SSBBRank talk page. Gardex, ADHD, Poyo, Luigisama, and seemingly everybody involved in Brawl sanctioned orange's project, considers the data to be good, contributed some to the project, and responded promptly to confirm. This should close the matter entirely. Barnard's Loop (talk) 16:29, February 20, 2021 (EST)

Thank you, that will suffice. Omega Tyrant 17:39, February 20, 2021 (EST)