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Ness (SSB)/Forward smash

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Overview

Ness brings out a baseball bat and swings it. This attack deals 18% with high base knockback but low knockback scaling. This makes Ness' forward smash rather powerful at lower percents although it is rather weak at higher percents. It has a decent amount of start-up lag, coming out on frame 18. It is the weakest overall forward smash in the game. It cannot KO Mario at the center of Dream Land until around 118%, making it tied with Luigi's forward smash as the weakest in the game at the center of Dream Land. It does KO earlier than Luigi's at the ledge although Luigi's is stronger when used far away from the horizontal blastzone. The attack is unique among forward smashes as it can reflect projectiles when timed correctly. If a projectile hits Ness during frames 16-21 of his forward smash, the projectile will bounce back and deal 1.8x more damage. This does give Ness' forward some some extra utility although it can be difficult to utilise.

One positive Ness' forward smash does have is that the move is safe on shield at +2. This does make forward smash a slow but safe spacing option when using on the ground (especially since it is disjointed) and Ness can potentially pressure his opponents if they shield his forward smash.

Overall, Ness' forward smash is not too spectacular as while it is disjointed and safe, it is also rather weak and its reflector is situational at best. The move comes out slowly and it cannot be comboed into easily, making it difficult to land. Ness' is usually better off using his down smash to score KOes as it is faster, stronger and it covers a lot more space for a much longer time. Up smash is also faster, it can potentially set up a combo and it can KO earlier depending on Ness' stage position. While it is not a bad move, it is not particularly amazing either.

In the Japanese version, Ness' forward smash is noticeably better, dealing 2% more damage and noticeably higher knockback. It can KO Mario at the center of Dream Land at 100%, giving it above average knockback at the center of Dream Land. Its higher damage also makes it even safer on shield, having 5 more frames of shieldstun, making it +7 on shield. One thing which was inferior about Ness' Japanese forward smash though was that it had a lower reflection multiplier (1.5x rather than 1.8x) although the move's higher power more than makes up for it.

Hitboxes

NTSC-J

ID Part Damage SD Angle BK KS FKV Radius Bone Offset Clang Effect G A Sound
0 0 20% 0 AngleIcon361.png 70 67 0 100 17 0 280 0 HitboxTableIcon(Clang).png EffectIcon(Normal).png HitboxTableIcon(GroundedTrue).png HitboxTableIcon(AerialTrue).png L Bat
1 0 20% 0 AngleIcon361.png 70 67 0 90 17 0 60 0 HitboxTableIcon(Clang).png EffectIcon(Normal).png HitboxTableIcon(GroundedTrue).png HitboxTableIcon(AerialTrue).png L Bat

NTSC-U/PAL

ID Part Damage SD Angle BK KS FKV Radius Bone Offset Clang Effect G A Sound
0 0 18% 0 AngleIcon361.png 70 65 0 100 17 0 280 0 HitboxTableIcon(Clang).png EffectIcon(Normal).png HitboxTableIcon(GroundedTrue).png HitboxTableIcon(AerialTrue).png L Bat
1 0 18% 0 AngleIcon361.png 70 65 0 90 17 0 60 0 HitboxTableIcon(Clang).png EffectIcon(Normal).png HitboxTableIcon(GroundedTrue).png HitboxTableIcon(AerialTrue).png L Bat

Summary

  • Nerf Damage (20% → 18%).
  • Nerf Knockback scaling (67 → 65).
  • Buff Reflection multiplier (1.5x → 1.8x).

Timing

Reflects 16-21
Hitbox 18-21
Animation length 49
FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Hitbox).png FrameIcon(Hitbox).png FrameIcon(Hitbox).png FrameIcon(Hitbox).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png FrameIcon(Lag).png
FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Reflect).png FrameIcon(Reflect).png FrameIcon(Reflect).png FrameIcon(Reflect).png FrameIcon(Reflect).png FrameIcon(Reflect).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png FrameIcon(Blank).png
Legend (1 square = 1 frame)
FrameIcon(Lag).png
Lag time
FrameIcon(Hitbox).png
Hitbox
FrameIcon(Reflect).png
Reflect

Properties

Reflection radius ?
Reflection damage 1.8x*
Reflection speed 1.0x

* Rounded up to the next whole number


This move in SSB64 This move in SSBM This move in SSBB This move in SSB4 This move in SSBU Ness's moveset
Neutral attack (1 · 2 · 3) · Forward tilt · Up tilt · Down tilt · Dash attack · Forward smash · Up smash · Down smash
Neutral aerial · Forward aerial · Back aerial · Up aerial · Down aerial
Grab · Forward throw · Back throw
Floor attack (front) · Floor attack (back) · Edge attack (fast) · Edge attack (slow)
Neutral special · Up special · Down special