Forum:Smashers that have taken a game off of ZeRo

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Forums: Index Proposals Smashers that have taken a game off of ZeRo
FailedPolicy.png This is a closed discussion about a failed proposed change on SmashWiki. It remains for archival purposes.

So, we're about to reach the "twenty-five smashers that have taken a set off of ZeRo in tournament" mark (meaning smashers like KOSSismoss do not count). However, 25, if you ask me, is a rather big number for something that is becoming more common and kinds less surprising to people, and you already know that in Smash 4, character balance is much better than in previous games, any character could defeat even their worst match-ups in tournament. Such is the case of ZeRo who, by maining Diddy Kong and seconding Sheik, Cloud and Captain Falcon, covers a huge array of match-ups, and even like that he has lost to people that you would not expect to lose to like Ramen, Mr.E, Day, Brood, and most recently Luhtie.

I can definitely see in the future that more and more smashers will keep taking sets off of ZeRo. What are we going to do when we reach a notable mark of smashers that have achieved the feat, that it will become pointless to mention? I had some proposals for this matter that could work on solving it before it becomes a mess in the future. We could stop mentioning if they have achieved the feat on their smasher pages when we reach a certain mark, or keep mentioning such without a fixed one. At the same time, regardless of your choice, we could make a category about it that mentions what smashers have acheivved so. We could also create a list of smashers that have achieved the feat, with what character(s) they did so, and in what tournament. I was thinking of something similar to this format:

Ranking Smasher Characters Tournament
1st Mr. ConCon LuigiHeadSSB4-U.png Smash 4 Oomba 5/1
2nd Vinnie SheikHeadSSB4-U.png PAX Prime 2015
...and so on...

If somebody has anything else to add on or comment on the matter of this, feel free to do so. But for now, we should find this a solution and, while not so prioritary right now, is something we will have to take care about in the future. --BeepYouSignature.png BeepYou BeepYouSignature.png (talk) 01:07, 30 March 2017 (EDT)


  1. I support it. Me, in my opinion, don't have a strong choice on whether we should keep mentioning smashers that have done so or if we should stop, but I do support my ideas of creating a both category and a list of smashers that have achieved the feat. --BeepYouSignature.png BeepYou BeepYouSignature.png (talk) 01:07, 30 March 2017 (EDT)


  1. Oppose for the same reason it was proposed. With a considerably increasing amount of Smashers that have hit the mark, I don't feel it's a significant enough occurrence to warrant more than a brief mention. Nyargleblargle.pngNyargleblargle (Contribs) 21:18, 2 April 2017 (EDT)



While ZeRo is still undeniably the #1 at competitive SSB4, the number of sets he's lost is definitely at the point where we don't need to keep track of it specifically. As far as keeping track of them in a table as you mention, I'm not sure it's worth it; it's not as if we do anything analogous for Armada, for example. Probably best to just condense references to beating ZeRo into the standard Smasher page prose. Miles (talk) 02:54, 30 March 2017 (EDT)

It makes sense to not do so for Armada since he has lost to very little smashers compared to ZeRo, but that's because Armada's Fox and Peach are almost invincible. ZeRo's Diddy isn't, and he has lost several sets to more players than Armada has. --BeepYouSignature.png BeepYou BeepYouSignature.png (talk) 03:13, 30 March 2017 (EDT)

Since Zero is the biggest win you can get in Smash 4, it is always going to be relevant to mention someone beating him on their own smasher pages, when it's standard practice to mention a player's most notable wins on their pages. There is no need though to keep track of it as it's own thing; it's more a trivia point than being vital information, and the amount of players who have done it has grown large enough that it's not a super special thing anymore, while that list will only continue to grow.

If SmashWiki is to care about players that Zero lost to, then at that point we should be listing full matchup records between players, and not just single out Zero, so it could be actual insightful information instead of just mere trivia. But of course that could be an impossibly daunting task to be comprehensive in, so I'm not sure I would push for something like that to be standardized on smasher articles. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 04:54, 30 March 2017 (EDT)

Yeeeah I don't see a good enough reason to include a table for this sort of thing. Beating ZeRo is definitely something that can be mentioned in the main prose of a smasher article, but taking a set off Vinnie or Ally would also fit into that category. As for OT's idea for matchups...I would not be upset in the slightest if we had it, but he is right that the task is simply too big to expect every smasher article to have it. Serpent SKSig.png King 18:27, 30 March 2017 (EDT)

We can list matchup records for a select few major smashers such as Armada, Mew2King and Ally. MHStarCraft Mega Man X SNES sprite.png 09:01, 31 March 2017 (EDT)

Aaannd we should have this why? Smash Master 12:19, 31 March 2017 (EDT)