User talk:Toomai/Archive 10

Hello. I moved this to File:Meta Knight Neutral Special Hitbox Brawl.png as that's the full name, but whenever I edit it (to mark it for speedy deletion), the redirect always stays there. What's causing this? This didn't happen for the other ones I moved. Scr 7 =D 08:42, 28 August 2013 (EDT)

I actually just found that this doesn't really matter as it's in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion, but regardless, I'm still confused as to why the speedy delete template doesn't show up, even though you can clearly see it while editing the page. Scr 7 =D 09:59, 28 August 2013 (EDT)

It does that if you put the template after the redirect. Put it before. DoctorPain99 15:21, 28 August 2013 (EDT)

Tristate Area

Ac2k was wondering if Tristate Area was not the proper name for the NY/NJ/PA area. Since you're a competitive Smasher, can you provide some insight into this? RoyboyX Talk 17:24, 28 August 2013 (EDT)

You could not have picked a more wrong guy to ask. Toomai Glittershine The Metroid 17:25, 28 August 2013 (EDT)

Name change

So apparently I hear that you can change the username of people. So could you change mine to MeMyselfAndI? It's because I use it in the IRC chat so it'd be easy to look for me in the wiki plus I don't want to go by the name "Conanshinichi" any more. Thank you very much. -- Conan shinichi (MMAI) 13:36, 29 August 2013 (EDT)

Thanks, Toomai. :) -- Me Myself AndI 17:35, 29 August 2013 (EDT)

Could you change my username to thevillagerrulz123? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thesmashball (talk • contribs) 13:58, 15 September 2013

Sign properly please. Scr7 (talk · contribs) 09:01, 15 September 2013 (EDT)

Screw up

I made.a spelling error that I firm't notice.until.after I.made.my account. May you please rename to Childcare? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chliex (talk • contribs) 17:39, 29 August 2013 GMT

Sign your comments with the four tidles (~~~~). Scr 7 =D 13:39, 29 August 2013 (EDT)

If you don't sign someone can add the unsigned template, and it stays like that. Scr 7 =D 13:46, 29 August 2013 (EDT)

Damn autocorrect, I meant Chilex. Chliex (talk) 13:51, 29 August 2013 (EDT)

Good show!

This image pleases the Quilt greatly --Quilt (talk) 04:48, 31 August 2013 (EDT)

a question

Do you have any idea why the taunt animation is slower than the Teeter animation? It doesn't make any sense because the teeter animation has more frames, it lasts longer and the resolution is slightly bigger than the taunt animation. Thanks -- Me Myself AndI 11:53, 2 September 2013 (EDT)

Absolutely no idea. Toomai Glittershine The Steppin' 12:27, 2 September 2013 (EDT)

question about SW:1226

Why is writing descriptions of the images better than uploading the images? Scr7 (talk · contribs) 13:51, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

It's debatable. Personally I won't upload images that are low-quality and objectively inferior to what we already have just so they can go on a translated mirror that has a linkback, but if someone else does I won't complain. Toomai Glittershine The Sphere 13:57, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

While the images on the site are probably low-quality, I'd say they're about the same quality as the ones on the page already. Scr7 (talk · contribs) 13:59, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

The "ones on the [Mario (SSBM)] page already" are from the site; they happened to be uploaded already so I used them. Toomai Glittershine The Chronicler 14:02, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

I'll just upload the images and name them stuff like "Mario Landing SSBM.jpg" for example. does that sound ok? Scr7 (talk · contribs) 14:32, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

I don't care too much. Note that this sets a precedent for the 12TP pages too, not just the 26TP ones. Toomai Glittershine The Polychromatic 14:34, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

Ceiling glitch

Hello, do you know the technical details of the ceiling glitch in Melee? Also it turns out this is caused by the ceiling glitch. Scr7 (talk · contribs) 12:15, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

I don't know. Toomai Glittershine The Labbie 12:20, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

Do you think there should be an article on the ceiling glitch? Scr7 (talk · contribs) 13:25, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

Probably, assuming it's not another name for the box glitch. Toomai Glittershine The Breegull 15:27, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

I think they're different, the ceiling glitch should work with every character and it seems to "stage spike" characters when they're hit upward. [1] Scr7 (talk · contribs) 15:36, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

Hmm never seen that before, so yeah different glitch. Looks almost like the character that did the initial attack has their momentum erased at the point where their freeze frames would have worn off had they not been hit. But if so, then the Thunder .gif is something even more different. Toomai Glittershine The Boss 16:01, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

Smashboards website

Just so you know, your smashboards website isn't responding and won't let us in.--Brandondorf 19:52, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

Thanks for automatically assuming Toomai somehow owns Smashboards despite having no evidence that he does. Besides that, Smashboards is up and running on an alternate host, so not "letting" you in is not their problem nor is it our problem. Mega Tron1 XD 19:59, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

It's because of the loading process to the site is not loading the site properly. Everytime I try going there, it freezes the page and only shows the url, but not the web page.--Brandondorf 20:03, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

The site works fine for the people I've just asked, so it's a problem with your connection and again, not something that we care about because we can't do anything to fix it ourselves. Mega Tron1 XD 20:18, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

You guys are late to the party. Smashboards, AiB and Project M are targets of a DDoS attack. None of them work properly. Smashboards has a front page but all its data is inaccessible. --Brian^{Don't try me!} 21:28, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

With the DDoS attack, we'll never get the tools, instructions and file lists to each file for the game. What are we going to do now if we lost all the files and everything else?--Brandondorf 23:29, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

This is temporary. Deal with it like everyone else, and don't complain on this site because we can't do anything about it. Toomai Glittershine The Quiet 23:33, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

The account creation page

Hey, is it possible to link to policies/guidelines like SW:FIRST and SW:NAME as recommended reading on the account creation page? Omega Tyrant 05:14, 15 September 2013 (EDT)

Not sure, I don't know what the editable messages are for that page. You can help by slodging through Special:AllMessages. Toomai Glittershine The Different 09:58, 15 September 2013 (EDT)

Potential items for news?

So Smashboards and Project M site have recovered from the DDoS. This means I can get you the data for the ceiling glitch from Magus's thread.

Another note: do you have Brawl- ISO? I'd like to compare a few things: shield breaker startup (still 19 frames?), dash dance length, Marth's minus grab range vs Melee/PM grab range and check if the down air fixed the stack ordering issue. I feel like minus grab range feels closer to brawl's grab range, but that just might be me being used to the extended grab range of the melee Jump Canceled grab. As for the minus dair, I can spike consistently with it, but it's range seems significantly shorter (alot less horizontal range) and the sweetspot may not have hitbox priority. --Brian^{Don't try me!} 13:08, 17 September 2013 (EDT)

I'll check later, remind me if nothing occurs in a few days. Toomai Glittershine The Incomprehensible 14:42, 17 September 2013 (EDT)

Dash dance length cannot be measured from code, but here's the other stuff: (grab format: [xpos,ypos,zpos] {radius})

Normal Marth: dair sweetspot is at bottom of stack, normal grab range is [8,8,0] {4} and [4,8,0] {4}, Shield Breaker hits frame 19
P:M 2.6 Marth: dair sweetspot is at top of stack, normal grab range is [14.82,9.43,0] {3.91}, [11.23,8.98,0] {3.91}, and [8.09,8.54,0] {3.91}, Shield Breaker hits frame 16
B- 2.x.6 Marth: dair sweetspot is at bottom of stack, normal grab range is [8,8,0] {7.4} and [4,8,0] {7.4}, Shield Breaker hits frame 19

Toomai Glittershine The Non-Toxic 13:07, 20 September 2013 (EDT)

Hmmm ok. It seems as I thought B- grab range is longer than Brawl. It seems they just increased the radius instead of moving the hitboxes to the points they were located in Melee. Doing some math (adding the radius to each of the coordinates) it seems Melee/PM Marth clearly outclasses B- Marth in grabbing. (Am I right?). Also initial dash animation length is the dash dance length. Do you have access to that data? Also check the Smash 4 gif. No, it's not out of pure hate for brawl air dodge. That legitimately looks like momentum canceling. --Brian^{Don't try me!} 15:06, 20 September 2013 (EDT)

Hitstun canceling?

So do I have to wait for smash 5 for a good game? Also let me know when you're free to check the minus data vs Melee/PM.--Brian^{Don't try me!} 12:07, 20 September 2013 (EDT)

I'll further elaborate. Yes, I have considered the possibility the hitstun ends and then the air dodge is used, but look at the smoke. It switches direction. To me that indicated momentum was directly altered and partially negated by the air dodge. If it were the case the air dodge was used after hitstun ended, wouldn't it be reasonable to postulate the smoke trail would end (indicating hitstun is over) before the air dodge and not switch directions?--Brian^{Don't try me!} 12:26, 20 September 2013 (EDT)

Also Samus did an aerial out of hitstun, further indicating hitstun negation exists in smash 4.--Brian^{Don't try me!} 12:26, 20 September 2013 (EDT)

Here's what I see: characters can do something the instant they stop moving. It doesn't look like either character took much knockback, maybe smoke trails appear for lower knockback levels or something. And DK's smoke ending late enough to appear to reverse direction could very well be a bug for all we know. I'm currently dubious either way. Toomai Glittershine The Irrepressible 16:18, 20 September 2013 (EDT)

Smash 64 ledge thingy

So I've come across this ledge thing numerous times unintentionally, and I'm unsure about it. Do you know what it is or what causes it? Scr7 (talk · contribs) 05:07, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

Looks like SDI into the wall. Toomai Glittershine The Resolute 09:50, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

Yeah I was thinking about SDI too, though I also thought it could've been a ledge tech or something. Scr7 (talk · contribs) 09:58, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

If walltechs were in SSB64, it probably could be an edgetech. This looks exactly the same as a failed edgetech in Melee. Toomai Glittershine The Producer 10:03, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

tbh I forgot about that. Scr7 (talk · contribs) 10:06, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

Flare Blade vs Shield Breaker

Which is stronger? I think Flare Blade has more knockback, but Shield Breaker does shield damage and has more reach. Do you have access to the the knockback values of each stage of flare blade/shield breaker's charging? Thanks--Brian^{Don't try me!} 01:11, 25 September 2013 (EDT)

Knockback values are unchanged for all levels of charge except fully charged; the increase in knockback of charging is just because of the higher damage. (This is why several moves, though not necessarily these ones, tend to have more knockback when just under fully charged.)

Shield Breaker starts at 7 damage (+30/+38 SD) and adds 5 damage per second (rounded, not gradual). It instead does 28 damage (+60 SD) fully charged. Knockback values are the same throughout - BK 30/30/34/40, KS 100.

Flare Blade starts at 6 damage (+1 SD) and adds 5 damage per second (rounded, not gradual). It instead does 50 damage (+30 SD) fully charged. At any non-full charge, knockback is 40/110. At full charge, knockback is 50/83 (more base, less scaling).

So while Shield Breaker does slightly more damage initially and has more shield damage throughout, Flare Blade can charge for longer and so do more. It also has more knockback overall. Toomai Glittershine The Pan-Galactic 09:59, 25 September 2013 (EDT)

You said SB's base knockback values are 30/30/34/40. I assume those are the base knockback values for each of the hitboxes. So Shield Breaker has a tipper hitbox in Melee?--Brian^{Don't try me!} 11:02, 25 September 2013 (EDT)

Also I think Brawl Shield Breaker is weaker than both. Is that true too?--Brian^{Don't try me!} 11:38, 25 September 2013 (EDT)

Category:Hitbox images

Hi. I notice that there was a category, just for the hitbox images. I was unaware of this category until just now, and I put all of the hitbox images in the general hitbox category. Is it okay that you can use your bot to put these images in that category so I won't have to clog the recent changes? Do ts The Saxaphone 12:18, 27 September 2013 (EDT)

Since the images would have to be sorted into subcategories, some of which don't exist yet, the bot can't do it. Toomai Glittershine The Engineer 12:21, 27 September 2013 (EDT)

Shields in PM

How exactly do Melee shields,PM shields and I guess Brawl shields differ? Like do you have access to shield HP, shield decay rate, and shield stun? Thanks--Brian^{Don't try me!} 16:58, 27 September 2013 (EDT)

We have the normal numbers on the shield page. I don't know how to find them in PM, you'll have to ask a backroomer. Toomai Glittershine The Orchestral 17:33, 27 September 2013 (EDT)

Alright I found the PM shield stun formula. It's the same as the Melee formula: (damage+4.45)/2.235. Should I put this on the Shield page?--Brian^{Don't try me!} 19:16, 27 September 2013 (EDT)

Category:Sticked threads

Could we use this or can I tag it for deletion due to non-use? RoyboyX Talk 18:01, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

I don't really know what's up with it. It's possible deleting it will break the forum system or something, so I kinda feel like leaving it alone until I can find out for sure. Toomai Glittershine The Orchestral 18:20, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

Account merge

SSBMFan98 and Meleefan98 should be merged with MeleeFan98. User has confirmed which account they're sticking with. Omega Tyrant 18:08, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

Okay. Toomai Glittershine The Orchestral 18:20, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

Bowser and Donkey Kong's grab releases

In Brawl, can Bowser infinite grab-release-chaingrab characters/get guaranteed followups? And can DK perform similar followups when ground released/infinite grab-release-chaingrab people with his cargo throw? Awesome Cardinal 2000 21:45, 1 October 2013 (EDT)

Bowser can get some sort of guaranteed followup on everyone but himself and Donkey Kong. Bowser can additionally infinitely regrab with a wall, and by an inhumanely difficult bufffered pivot grab. Omega Tyrant 22:33, 1 October 2013 (EDT)

Do you know if DK can get a guaranteed grab when ground released? I've never heard this anywhere so I'm wondering/confirming whether you know. Awesome Cardinal 2000 17:08, 2 October 2013 (EDT)

Stitchface

What are the separate probabilities you will pull a stitchface or a bomb in Melee? Like 2% or something? Also I heard stitchface is drastically weaker in Brawl than it is in Melee. Is that true?--Brian^{Don't try me!} 12:05, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

Check the Vegetable page, it gives all the info. The chance of pulling a Stitchface is 1/58, and its maximum damage is only 2% less in Brawl comparatively, with quantatatively similar knockback. Oasidu (talk) 13:30, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

The veggie probabilities are the same for both SSBM and SSBB, so this image works for both games (for probability, maybe not for damage or knockback, can't find those numbers in SSBM). Melee's "item instead of turnip" rate is 1/128; Brawl's is 1/80. Toomai Glittershine The Researcher 13:58, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

Alright, if you ever happen to find the (BK/KS) values for the stitch faces in both games, do let me know. Damage differential tells me absolutely nothing.--Brian^{Don't try me!} 15:08, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

Boss spikes

Hey, does Ridley or Duon have any attacks with a negative downward angle? I want to try testing if these attacks actually function as spikes, and when testing before with Petey's jump, I couldn't DI it enough to get knocked offstage. Omega Tyrant 00:13, 10 October 2013 (EDT)

There's a -65 hitbox in Meta Ridley, but I don't currently know what attack it is. No other boss attacks have spike angles (there's a -15 somewhere in Galleom, but that's pointless). If you want to see if they can be cancelled I suggest using a Ticken, its Mound Pound has a -90 angle. Or just get a moveset hack that changes some character's attacks to -90. Toomai Glittershine The Brazen 00:31, 10 October 2013 (EDT)

Ken's Birthday

Should we make the Ken article the featured article? It's his birthday. --Brian^{Don't try me!} 00:53, 10 October 2013 (EDT)

Brian vs OT Round Some Large Number

In your free time can you compare the percents and BKB/KBG values for Falco dair in Melee, and Falco dair in Brawl. I fail to see how the move was buffed in any significant way.--Brian^{Don't try me!} 09:02, 11 October 2013 (EDT)

Oh I remember them for Melee, I wrote the beautiful description. It does 12% with 10BK/100KBG for the clean hit and 9% 20/100 for the late hit.--Brian^{Don't try me!} 09:07, 11 October 2013 (EDT)

In Brawl, the damage is 13% 10/100 clean and 8% 20/90 late. So the late hit is weaker and the clean hit is stronger. Toomai Glittershine The Spark 10:36, 11 October 2013 (EDT)

SSBM Hitboxes (NTSC 1.0).xlsx

Is it true you are the author of that brilliant document? If so, thank you very much! It’s been very helpful for me. Could you tell me your process on creating such a big Excel file? I guess you had to write a script that automatically recognized hitbox data and translated it into Excel language? Kadano talk 07:53, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

Oh yeah that probably needs updating. But nope, no scripts involved, couldn't figure out how to a) differentiate hitboxes from other things that happen to start with 2c or 2d or b) determine whether a hitbox has special properties. Just manual search-copy-paste. Toomai Glittershine The Incomperable 09:28, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

That’s amazing. How many hours did you work on it in total? Also, why do you think it needs updating? Kadano talk 16:43, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

I dunno how long it took/takes. I don't actually remember if updating is necessary, but I have made some minor changes to the non-public version that I don't remember the nature of. Toomai Glittershine The Spectrum 16:46, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

Types of terrain on stages

Would you be willing to add all the types of terrain used on each stage to its article/on the infobox or on the terrain page? Awesome Cardinal 2000 19:15, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

Redirect

When would it be a good time to leave a redirect for any article? ZeldaStarfoxfan2164 (talk) 13:13, 18 October 2013 (EDT)

This question doesn't make sense. In what context? Toomai Glittershine The Indescribable 14:37, 18 October 2013 (EDT)

I'm asking when would a redirect be necessary, like redirecting "Punch Out" to Punch-Out!! (universe) even though not many people visited that article. ZeldaStarfoxfan2164 (talk) 17:37, 18 October 2013 (EDT)

Redirecting "X" to "X (YZ)" seems perfectly fine if no "X (QK)" exists. Toomai Glittershine The Cloronic 17:46, 18 October 2013 (EDT)

What I'm thinking is what would make a necessary redirect. Like Miles deleted an "unnecessary" redirect because only one user contributed to the link. ZeldaStarfoxfan2164 (talk) 17:51, 18 October 2013 (EDT)

If you mean Smasher talk:MasterofFlames, that's because having redirects for moved talk pages is pointless if nothing links to it (I can't think of a use for them). Toomai Glittershine The Jiggy 17:53, 18 October 2013 (EDT)

A Question of Courtesy

If one were to stumble upon an only recently active IP who has dedicated 4 of their only 5 contributions to the Smash Arena, what is the policy about the proper way to go about ~~telling~~ encouraging them to be productive contributors? Oasidu (talk) 23:23, 20 October 2013 (EDT)

4/5 is okay for a new IP, it's got a ways to go before I'd consider it worth mentioning to them. If it gets to 23/25 or something (none of these numbers are set in stone, just gut feelings) then you could leave a talkpage message linking to SW:NOT or something. Toomai Glittershine The Sharp 23:47, 20 October 2013 (EDT)

Thanks, wanted to help without jumping the gun. Oasidu (talk) 01:02, 21 October 2013 (EDT)

Say a projectile hits a reflection hitbox at an angle that isn't 0 degree.

Like say you threw straight down or like at 45. which way does the reflected projectile go?--Brian^{Don't try me!} 00:20, 21 October 2013 (EDT)