User talk:Semicolon/Treatise on the Existence of Tiers

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Do not comment here unless you can provide a detailed refute of an argument within the treatise. If you cannot supply this, then do not comment here against tiers. Any comment that essentially consists of "Tiers are for queers!" or "tires don exits!", being insulting to the competitive community and the SmashWiki, or repeating an argument already refuted in the treatise, will be treated as trolling, and handled accordingly.

Proof in 4 words that Tiers are pointless.

Every person plays differently.

Proof that you didn't read it. MegaTron1XD 15:19, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

I did read it. Tiers don't exist, and are only supported by the fact that people keep following them. Everyone plays differently. Tiers constantly change. They do not exist. Go on, flame me all you want, but Tiers are completely pointless. The creators had no intention of putting in Tiers. The end. Case closed. Argue all you want, but for each reason you say they do exist I could counter with 10 reasons saying they don't exist.

Apparently you did not, otherwise you would understand how stupid you sound. The creators also had no intention of putting in glitches, so by that logic you are saying those don't exist. Learn to argue, please. DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER} (Talk • Contribs) 16:03, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

Oh, and if you can come up with ten reasons for every one reason we make up, read the Treatise, and come up with a good, logical ten reasons for every reason on there why tiers don't exist. DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER} (Talk • Contribs) 16:05, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

If everyone plays differently (fact), and some characters win tournaments more than others (fact), then that shows that some characters are better than others in tournament play regardless of playing style. Therefore your initial argument is false. In fact, many characters are high on the tier list because they can be successful under various playstyles, while many characters are low because they can only win by playing in a certain way (and maybe this way is easily shut down by the higher-tiered characters).

Your other arguments ("people keep following them", "constantly change", "creators had no intention") are each argued against in the treatise. If you want to try to win this debate you will have to bring up completely new arguments, which personally I don't think is possible, instead of brining up old ones that are soundly defeated in the treatise already. Toomai Glittershine The Inconceivable 16:46, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

Dude, sign your comments please. Mr. Anon (talk) 17:22, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

The saddest thing is that you'd take a video game this seriously. It proves that you have no life. Argue all you want, flame me all you want, I honestly dont care. Goodbye.

My reply:We're a Wiki. We're supposed to take this stuff seriously. (A**hole) Forbidden7 22:15, 4 July 2011 (EDT)

How pathetic. You are cussing me out. That proves how uneducated you are. Now, goodbye for real. Flame me all you want. "TIERS DO EXIST! YOU SUCK!" etc. etc., but it will only prove my point. In the end, Tiers don't exist. They are created by fans with no life that try to get more people to play as their favorite characters and less to play as their least favorite characters. Goodbye.

Oh look, the cornered rat will try to bite the cat, but unfortunately there are more then one "cats' here. you are just trying to find a way to make yourself feel better and try to cuss US of, now were trying to cuss you up, back :p

good luck finding a way to answer in a logical way :D Lucas-IV- Think Before You Talk 10:07, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

...no comment. --24.11.24.139 10:11, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Hey dude

I'm sorry you have to go through all this shit with the admins and the tiers and everything. I do agree that tires don exits(Smashboards joke about tiers), but you really just need to stop. It's not going to help for you to continue complaining about tiers. Maybe you would get less hate learning this. --FireEmblemFan275 (talk) 19:47, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

Maybe you should read the treatise too. DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER} (Talk • Contribs) 19:56, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

If someone argues here, they are expected to back it up with a logical argument that refutes the treatise. Omega Tyrant 19:57, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

I personally don't know why a bunch of people would let others decide which characters are best/worst,but since tiers have been created, they do exist,in a physical sense. Hell,I even have my own tier list thanks to Megatron1,so you can probably tell where I stand on this issue. Forbidden7 20:42, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

It's not people just "deciding" who's best, many objective factors went into each character's placing on the SBR's tier list, including the character's statistics and abilities, their tourney placings, and their matchup ratios against other characters. It's a gross misconception the ignorant has that the tier list was created by a few people who placed their favorites at the top and least favorites at the bottom. There's a reason why the SBR's tier list is considered the "official" tier list among the competitive community. Omega Tyrant 21:56, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

Yes,but just because someone wins with Fighter A a lot,doesn't make them better. That Smasher is just skillful with Fighter A,while others may not be. Forbidden7 22:02, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

Fighter A however, does not just have one person successful with the character, but many that are successful, while fighter B has barely any successful players. Are you going to claim Fighter B is equal to Fighter A, even though Fighter A has vastly more success in competitive play, and not just from one player? Omega Tyrant 23:06, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

Also remember the tier list does not reflect how good you are with every character, but rather how good the character is at the highest level of human play where the players are equal in skill. As such, not everyone's best character will be Meta Knight, but that doesn't mean he is not the best overall character. Omega Tyrant 23:08, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

I'm not saying tiers don exits,i just have questions I'll ask later Forbidden7 23:09, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

Okay,let's begin.

First,a bad example:If Ganondorf,suddenly went high up in the tier despite his disadvantages,what would that mean? Even if several skilled tournament players started winning several matches with him,would that throw away all disadvantages to place him high in the tier? Second...actually,that's all! Forbidden7 23:47, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

I appologize for the somewhat harsh reply below, as I misread your post an thought you were an antier. If several tourny players won matches with him against non-ganondorfs, then that would mean something new must have come up to allow for Ganondorfs matchups against those characters to be better with. Mr. Anon (talk) 23:49, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

If Ganondorfs started placing well in numerous tournies, than yes he would most certainly rise on the tier list. But it has not happened, and like Anon said, something new would have to be discovered for Ganondorf that helps him in his dreadful matchups if that prospect is to be realistic. Omega Tyrant 10:27, 4 July 2011 (EDT)

I see...which reminds me,I might try to update my tier list(again) tommonrow! :p Forbidden7 23:57, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

The correct term is a competency chart. MegaTron1XD 00:04, 4 July 2011 (EDT)

Everyone here who does not agree with the treatise

IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OUR STANCE ON TIERS, WE EXPECT A SECTION BY SECTION REFUTATION OF SEMICOLON'S TREATISE. IF YOU CANNOT SUPPLY A DETAILED ARGUMENT, THEN DO NOT COMMENT HERE. Mr. Anon (talk) 22:51, 3 July 2011 (EDT)