Talk:Navi

Deletion

Oppose. Slime also has a page, and is a taunt character as well. If we delete this page, we should delete slime’s as well. Lou Cena (talk) 13:28, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

Oppose. Navi has appeared in more then one installment as a taunt. And all the ones as part of Namco Roulette do have their own page with Namco Roulette. Navi herself physically appears in a taunt while the Roulette characters aren’t actually there. Especially considering the Mario Maker costumes don’t count when they’re basically the same thing. Morgana was given a page before he was revealed to also be a costume. And with Slime, Navi should keep her page. With Namco Roulette being an entirely different case, what’s preventing Slime and Navi from having pages as taunt elements? Taunts are “technically” a part of their moves, right? Luigi can deal damage with one of his. 172.58.173.88 14:12, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

Slime's page would also be deleted, if we were to delete this one. As for Morgana, he was given a page the same day as the 15-minute video that showed A. he was a Final Smash character (which was grounds for a page creation anyway), B. he was a taunt character, and C. he was a Mii costume (which was also grounds for a page creation). Aidan, the Rurouni 14:35, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

Navi and Slime should keep their pages as they are part of taunts, which is part of a playable character’s abilities. Namco Roulette Characters are like the Mario Maker costumes which were stated by this wiki not to count for a character’s cameo or inclusion on the wiki. Why shouldn’t taunt characters be given pages? It’s technically part of a character’s arsenal, with cases like Luigi. 172.58.173.88 16:13, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

The Namco Roulette characters are no different from Navi or Slime, minus the fact that they’re sprites instead of models. None of them have any effect on gameplay at all. I change my oppose to a support now.

As for Slime, let’s just wait until the Hero releases, and then we’ll find out if Slime deserves to be deleted as well. If The Hero throws a slime out as part of his moveset, let’s keep it. But for now, let’s just delete Navi’s page. Lou Cena (talk) 18:09, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

There still is no reason given as to why Navi and Slime shouldn’t or can’t have pages. If it’s because they have to effect on gameplay, neither do mii costumes. And besides, the deletion tag was added by an admin and was removed by a different admin who said there was no problems with Navi having a page. The Namco Roulette does have its own page, which would have to be deleted if Navi and Slime can’t have pages themselves. Just because taunts have no effect on gameplay is not even true. Luigi’s AND Greninja’s have effect on gameplay. If effecting gameplay determines a page, then pages for mii costumes have to be deleted under the same reasons as Navi and the Mario Maker costumes. They have no effect on gameplay, AND are not actually the characters themselves. Which means Morgana’s page will be deleted as well. There is no actual reason why Navi and Slime can’t have pages, and no reason why the mii costume pages can stay if they are deleted. 172.58.173.88 18:53, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

Wait... wasn't this tagged for deletion before, but then overridden? CookiesCreme 19:18, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

It was, and, truthfully, I'm not exactly sure why. Aidan, the Rurouni 19:28, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

Support. Being the person who created the Namco Roulette page, the reasons I created it are: it's notable and unique among taunts (the only taunt with a random element, references a wide extent of Namco games that are unrelated to Pac-Man) and because of that, there's more than enough information to warrant its own page. Basically nothing about Navi can be said besides "she appears in Link's taunt", and regardless, it's not even clear if she appears in Brawl and Smash 4 to begin with; the fairy in those games is more likely a reference to the Wii Remote cursor from Twilight Princess. She really just isn't notable enough to carry a page. ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 19:22, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

The problem is apparently because she has no gameplay element, which means she, Slime, the Roulette, and mii costume inspirations’ pages are to be deleted. Even if Navi wasn’t in Brawl, she’s in Ultimate as part of Young Link’s taunt. Nothing about the Roulette matters as it’s just a taunt. Same for the mii costumes. Not the character, and no gameplay element. Mii costumes are just the alt costumes for Mii Fighters, which apparently aren’t enough to get a page as they don’t effect gameplay. Either they ALL stay, or they ALL get deleted. There is no logical reasoning to keep certain taunts over the others, or to have the mii costumes over the taunts as they aren’t the fighters. In fact, Navi, Slime, and Morgana have more of a reason to have pages as they physically appear in the game, unlike the mii COSTUMES. 172.58.173.88 19:31, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

Morgana is keeping his page regardless of if this page ends up being deleted. He's a Final Smash character, which is grounds for a page. Chrom and Palutena got one before they were playable, and the Mega Men each got one (along with Proto Man and Bass once they were shown to be in Ultimate). Aidan, the Rurouni 19:34, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

You're taking this too literally, anyway. Pages can be notable without having a physical appearance or a direct gameplay element. Mii Costumes are notable because they are, in essence, playable characters with basis in the originals. The Roulette is notable because it's a unique, non-standard taunt. Navi lacks anything other than a brief, context-free cameo, and if her only claims to fame are "a trophy in 3DS and a maybe-probably appearance in Link's taunt", then that puts her on the same level as someone like Alfonzo; a disambiguation page at most. ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 19:42, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

Support, if this had so much as one other form of representation in the game I'd oppose, but in its current state I'm kinda on the fence here, but I just can't really think of a reason why this page is necessary. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 19:35, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

Then give a valid reason why Navi’s page should be deleted. Geno only appears as a spirit, nothing else. He WAS the basis for a costume, but that is not Geno himself. Morgana can stay, just like Dixie. But Geno, Chibi-Robo, Ribbon-Girl and so on have to be deleted. As specifically stated by admin Serpent King. “We don't generally make full articles for mii costumes, case closed, have a nice day. SerpentKing 15:22, June 28, 2019 (EDT)” As in the words of Serpent King with Mii costume only characters, “cased closed”. 172.58.173.88 23:14, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

(edit conflict) And admin Aidanzapunk (yours truly), along with admin Miles talked to him in Discord and told him that, since Smash 4 DLC, we've made pages for Mii costumes. Aidan, the Rurouni 23:18, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

Because Geno was the basis for a costume at one point, he keeps his page. Deleting that would be like deleting the Tabuu page because he’s not a boss anymore. As for Serpent King stating that we generally don’t make pages for mii costumes, either that was a mistake or the basis for a completely separate discussion that isn’t relevant to Navi in any way, shape, or form. Lou Cena (talk) 23:17, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

That doesn’t mean we can’t correct an almost 5 year mistake. Bosses are different then mii costumes, as they have effect on gameplay. This whole entire argument on why Navi and Slime can’t have pages is based on the fact that they don’t effect “gameplay”. How do mii costumes effect gameplay? They don’t. How can you justify that decision if you make exceptions for them? Silver from Sonic doesn’t have a page despite appearing in the games. Because he doesn’t effect gameplay. Honestly, remove any redirects or links that don’t go to actual page on the wiki. What other character is named “Amy Rose”? There’s no legitimate reason for her to have disambiguation page over a character page. Just get rid of it all together. Taunt characters appear “physically”, mii costume characters don’t. Give a reason that specifically explains why mii costumes can have pages while taunt characters can’t despite neither effecting gameplay? And not all of us are fortunate enough to have out-of-wiki sources like Discord. 172.58.173.88 23:31, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

(Reset indent) The disambiguation pages are for linking to how the character appears, rather than multiple characters. Silver appears as a background character in Green Hill Zone (links to Green Hill Zone), and a trophy in Brawl and Smash 4 (linking to the Sonic trophy lists for both games). If you'd like to propose such, go bring it up in the general forums. Aidan, the Rurouni 23:35, June 30, 2019 (EDT)

How would I be able to do that? IPs can’t creat new pages, let alone a personal for taunt and mii costume related character pages. 172.58.173.88 23:38, June 30, 2019 (EDT)