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Tl;dr version of the below: Don't edit this page unless you have something to contribute about what the SBR said. We don't care if you disagree with them or tiers in general; that's for the forums.

We understand that tiers are a point of contention among members of the Smash community. However, this page discusses the tier-lists that the Smash Back Room (for Melee and Brawl) and the GameFAQs forums (for the original) have posted. These are accepted by almost every high level player and as such are important and notable content to this wiki. Discussion on this talk page should be limited to the content of the page, not a debate on the existence or ordering of tiers. Those should both be addressed in the Forums (Forum for Brawl, forum for Melee).

Inaccuracy

I looked ad the Brawl tier list and noticed that it is not correct. wario is not 7th, he is 3rd, so diddy kong is not 3rd. King dedede is 6th, not 8th. etc. Kirby0h0 (talk) 03:12, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

There's an update. 98.117.158.220 03:12, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

The update was made today. Blue Ninjakoopa 03:37, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

i wish people KNEW what a tier is i know they are real but i still don't like the melee tier but that does'nt mean i don't believe it also im the guy who said the floor glitch is real but hard to do it's about 60% of the time i fail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.70.21.80 (talk • contribs) {{{2}}}

Please don't make an account if this is going to be indicative of the quality of the posting you do with it. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 02:13, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Ok..............

I Dont see why this tierthing is so controversial, heres my take; the highest tiers arent the best characters, they're just the easiest to master, i mean think about it, Meta Knight is quite clearly easier to master then Ganondorf, but if you take time to master Ganondorf, then Ganondorf can be much better then Meta Knight, just saying.....

I know what you mean. I can't kill crap with meta knight but i use Ganondorf as an alternate.File:MG4.pngEvilGRAHAM 0^{Mmmm Free Goo!} 02:48, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

A tier list is basically peoples opinions of characters from different games. I do think that tiers don't exist and people should play whoever they main in order to win. Like some Wario mains actually beat Meta Knight and Lengendary Pikachu beating a Meta Knight in teams. I also play Doc a lot better than Fox in Melee. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.252.147.155 (talk • contribs) 00:13, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

If you think tiers don't exist, read this. Oh, and that last phrase you added (that has been removed) is often grounds for blocking. Toomai Glittershine The Stats Guy 00:20, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

If you think tiers exist, than go watch NEO, Taj, or Gimpyfish and you will see that Tiers don't exist. GET PWNED BY THE DOC KING!!!!!

Doc King, talk pages are for talking about problems with the article itself not about the the subject of the article, that's what the forums are for. 4DJONG (talk)

Sorry, I will stop talking about my opinions and rather talk about improving articles like this one (64.252.134.129 19:50, May 17, 2010 (UTC))

Clarifying info

In most peoples' experiences, tier plays little role in the overall outcome of the match, especially when a player is obviously more skilled than the competition. Tiers are simply a rating based on the winning consistency and potential one character has in the overall understanding of the game thus far. This is only touched in the anti-tier arguments, but this is also supporting of the concept of tier and should be mentioned in the summary. 74.194.224.252 20:41, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Balance over the controversy

Both arguments over tiers have a point. Some characters have better attributes than other characters. However, it also takes skill to do well with these characters. As many know, the tier list is not set in stone; it is more of a guideline. It is possible for a player using Ganondorf to beat another player using Meta Knight. A higher tier means that the character has an advantage over another character; it does not mean that a high tier character will always win. If a player has significant skill enough to consistently win with a low tier character, that (drawn from the logic of the tiers) player has more Smashing awesomeness than someone who always wins with a high tier. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattbell888 (talk • contribs) 14:59, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

It is made quite clear in this article and the treatise that skill matters more than tiers. Miles (talk) 20:18, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

your a dumb shit, it goes by the matchups. and wario WAS 3rd until they found out that he was not THAT good and u mostly see metaknights, snakes, and diddy kongs win tournaments. 1,2,3 and yes he is 3rd —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.29.165.244 (talk • contribs) {{{2}}}

Remember, no personal attacks, and skill matters more than tiers because, if you are skilled enough with Ganondorf you could beat M2K, when he is playing as Meta Knight. Also the tiers are for the characters that are more easily mastered than other characters, not who is better. User:4DJONG (talk)

Incorrect. The tier list only matters when all characters are mastered. If it was simply based on learning curve then characters such as Olimar would be at the bottom. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 18:02, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

in my opinion Tiers are bullshit, I can agree with the ones higher up on the page that the tiers are not an explanation to the characters performance, but rather how easy they are to play and even master, I main meta knight and I have done so since the game was realesed since I have always liked him, and my second main is ganondorf and I am just as good with both of them, my friend and I play very offten and he mains link, and he haven't played the game half as much as I have, and it's quiet even when we plays he might even win more then I do. and I'm a real veteran on all smash brothers games, I have done my homework I am very good with almost every character in brawl, including zelda and ganonndorf, so why they are on the bottom of the tier list is just not right to be honest, probably becuse the once who did the tier list do not know how to play them, just a thought though considering I know how they shall be played.

conclusion: some characters are easyer to play yes, but as final verdict teirs are just bullshit thx for me ^^ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.209.40.44 (talk • contribs) 07:19, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Why don't anyone use talk pages for their proper purpose? Didn't you read the notice at top of the page? You also didn't sign your comment. I'm not going to get into an argument about tiers but you saying that characters higher on the tier list are easier to master is false. The Ice Climbers, Olimar, and Lucario are arguably the most difficult characters to play properly. If it really was a measure on how "easy" a character is to play, the characters I mentioned above would not be high tier, Mario would not be low tier and Pit would be top tier if it truly was a measure of this. Just because you are good with a character does not mean the character themselves are good when compared to others. I can play Ganondorf well but does that change the fact that he is the worst character? No, it does not. Sure, I can three stock my brother's Meta Knight with him but just because you can beat up your friends' characters with a bottom tier character doesn't mean they aren't bottom tier. Practically no one's competency list (how good they are with each character) is going to exactly match the tier list. So just because some people are terrible with Meta Knight or Snake does not mean they aren't the two best characters in the game and just because some people can play Ganondorf exceptionally well does not mean he's not the worst character. Also, how can every character be even when their statistics are not? Now before you post again, read this and think carefully before your next post. Omega Tyrant 08:16, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

to be honest it's quite fun to see what a big deal these tiers have become, it's like teir wars three god, well it matters little, in my opinion tiers do not exist, that is my opinion and that is unlikly to change, and then there are others what beg to differ, ok then you may belive tiers exists, it's kinda lame though but sure, I only wanted to post my opinion before and omega tyrant sends me a link to prove me wrong xD, sorry mate but I use my own thoughts and experince to create my own opinion ^^ so I'll stick to my opinion on that tiers do not exists, it also makes it a bit more fun not to belive in tiers, it makes the game flow on as it should do when you play it with your friends,

I belive that when someone take a seat infront of the computer and spend hours to create a tier list, it has gone to far, so this is my last post on this place (though it is only my second but thats beside the point =)

as a nice end, why bother proving eachother wrong on a useless point such as this, god just play the game instead we all have different opinions and thats not going to change, so if you want to play a balanced fighting game play blazblue or sometihng and stop nagging eachothers ass off.

thx for me once more ^^

Why

Tiers are the most ridiculous things I have ever seen, characters are determined by skill of the player with these characters, not value. Meta Knight has a learning curve, along with every other character. I don't understand why Snake is so high, you have to consider cons along with pros, not just pros. Why do tiers even exist, who cares if they are incorrect, it takes skill to get good with the characters to take full advantage of them. For a tournament you use your best character, not whoever according to the tier. —Preceding unsigned comment added by B-52 (talk • contribs) 16:40, July 24, 2010

First of all sign your posts using ~~~~ Second, read this. Doctor Pain 99 (CTE) 16:47, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

And third of all, it says at the top, that type of discussion does not go here. Doctor Pain 99 (CTE) 16:48, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Debates about the existance of tiers

People keep on ranting about how tiers don't exist on this page even though it doesn't belong here. It says clearly at the top, yet people keep trolling here. Perhaps we should issue a temp ban on anyone who puts that kind of content on this talk page? Sir Anon the great 00:15, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

It's not that big of a deal. Shadowcrest 02:24, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

The images are hard to read

I think it would be better if there were text instead of image thumbnails for the tier list.

First of all, sign your comments using ~~~~ Second of all, I can "read" the images fine and i use an iPod, so they dont need to be replaced with text. Doctor Pain 99 (CTE) 01:10, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

If text is used it would be better than if images are used. that what it was like a year ago and it was better then.Poodoas (talk) 06:50, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Images are fine. No need to add text instead. That would make it more dull. Images are easy to "read".--MegaTron1XD 06:52, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

How about image and text?Poodoas (talk) 07:50, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Attempting to use text in the current format will give all the cells different sizes. Not good. Toomai Glittershine 12:48, August 1, 2010 (UTC)