Template talk:Langtable

Meaning row

Should we formally disallow character specific etymologies from the Meaning row? Just my thought from what Rdrfc said in Charizard's page. Raffina H.-207 07:09, July 9, 2020 (EDT)

It's not that etymologies are not interesting, but I think that for SmashWiki they are a bit out of scope. I linken it to origin game specific trivia, as opposite to Smash related trivia; they might be neat to read about, but they still belong on [Game]Wiki and not on SmashWiki. They can also occasionally cause minor trouble when editors won't agree on what is the correct etymology, which is something that I would rather avoid here. In the sample tables that I put on this page I think I made a good example about what I am talking about: "Villager" and its variants are common nouns so it is useful to write the direct translation on its side, while "Rosalina" and its variants are proper nouns and therefore translating them is improper and giving their etimologies not useful for our scope. I do also think that we should aim to fill the template completely on every page, rather than only listing names that are different (this will give the reader the guarantee that the table is not incomplete), while I am not sure about how we should handle Asian names for NPCs (which wouldn't appear in a battle UI with an "official" romanization). There are a bunch of things to tackle there that I think should be addressed and codified early in the template's lifespan. --Rdrfc (talk) 09:36, July 9, 2020 (EDT)

Ah, those are my habits when posting foreign names in Mario Wiki, sorry. Anyways, I'll post that opinion, albeit it would be commented out until someone agrees.--Raffina H.-207 18:07, July 9, 2020 (EDT)

It seems to me that only the Pokémon will have this issue. Most, if not all, of them are combinations of two words. Whereas other characters are either proper nouns or are not portmanteaus (at least in non-Asian languages). Dark Samus has "Oscura"/"Sombra"/etc. translated. Pokémon take it a step further by merging the words together. If the information is taken from Bulbapedia then editors here shouldn't question it; I trust Bulbapedia editors with Pokémon stuff more than editors here.

There are a few things I would like to have talked about while the template is young. The first is nitpicky: on the character select screen Dark Samus is "Samus Obscura" in European Spanish but is "Samus obscura" in Latin American Spanish (note the capitalization). Similarly the French names for Second Anniversary of OCTOPATH TRAVELER differ by a space before the exclamation mark between the regions. Should these minor differences be noted?

The second thing is repetition. Again on the Spirit event I listed above, previously the first paragraph had NTSC English (Japanese) and then PAL English. After adding the langtable only NTSC English remained in the first paragraph (I did so because another editor did the same). Should the former style be used or the latter? Or should it be based on importance (such as Fighters/Stages with the former and events/items with the latter)? --CanvasK (talk) 20:16, July 9, 2020 (EDT)

On nitpicky formatting, I think every difference should be noted, while I am not sure about how to handle the latter case. I'd say that both names should be noted on more important things, although there is really only one case each(Duck Hunt and Find Mii). Another thing I was not sure about is what name we should use for the cases where the fighter has their complete name in the spirit list but only the first name on the CSS and other UI (for example, Simon Belmont). --Rdrfc (talk) 05:50, July 10, 2020 (EDT)

I'd say we go with their complete name since that is what the page names are. I'm sure people are smart enough to remove the word for "Princess" when talking about Princess Peach. Though this does bring into question what pages should use langtable. Does only "Princess Peach" need one or do we need "Princess Peach", "Peach (SSBM)", "Peach (SSBB)", etc.? If the CSS name really needs to be put somewhere, the latter would work but that is a lot of work, but if it is only the former then maybe put in parentheses or after a comma or semicolon (though it seems Raffina added another way on the template doc).

I forgot to mention my idea for the background characters. Many of them do have spirits (Like Pak E. Derm or Persona characters) which are translated, so those can be used. --CanvasK (talk) 07:21, July 10, 2020 (EDT)

Peach specifically has never been listed as "Princess Peach" in Smash even as a trophy or spirit, so it would be better to avoid it altogether; I think we should list only names as they have been used in Smash. For the actually relevant cases (such as Fox McCloud) I guess there is no harm, although it gets kinda finicky with the CSS name since the full name is not romanized in any UI. -Rdrfc (talk) 10:33, July 10, 2020 (EDT)

Changes to the table

I was thinking of making certain changes to the table, such as reorganizing the order and perhaps add some more options to the table.

Renaming certain languages:

• French (PAL) -> French (France)
• French (NTSC) -> French (Canada)
• Spanish (PAL) -> Spanish (Spain)
• Spanish (NTSC) -> Spanish (Latin America)

Adding a few more options:

I was considering next add some more options to the table, such as separate English and Portuguese options:

English:

• English (United Kingdom)
• English (United States)

Portuguese:

• Portuguese (Brazil)
• Portuguese (Portugal)

Flags:

Was considering changing the flag for Canadian French so it could be the one for Canada, while doing the following for the options listed simply as “English,” “French,” “Portuguese” and “Spanish.”

• English: Mixed flag of the United States and United Kingdom
• French: Mixed flag of Canada and France
• Portuguese: Mixed flag of Portugal and Brazil
• Spanish: Mixed flag of Spain and Mexico

Reordering the table:

I have now been considering going up and reordering the table to something more alphabetically (although with English first as that’s the main language of the wiki and Japanese after because it’s the game’s original language), like this:

• English
• English (United Kingdom)
• English (United States)
• Japanese
• Chinese (Simplified)
• Chinese (Traditional)
• Dutch
• French
• French (Canada)
• French (France)
• German
• Italian
• Korean
• Portuguese
• Portuguese (Brazil)
• Portuguese (Portugal)
• Russian
• Spanish
• Spanish (Latin America)
• Spanish (Spain)

Anywhere else I can bring this up? --MrGame&Watch37 (talk) 21:23, August 22, 2025 (PDT)

You have some good ideas here.

• I'm not strictly opposed to dropping NTSC/PAL from this template, but there might be some edge case I'm not aware of.
• You might want to read the template's documentation a bit more thoroughly:
  • It already supports en_us and en_gb.
  • No Smash Bros. game was ever translated into pt_br.
• The original reason for using the Quebec flag for fr_ca was that I didn't think people would look at the Canadian flag and think "French". If this isn't the case for the masses, I'd be okay with losing it.
• I don't like the idea of adding more mixed flag images. The only one we currently have (the North America flag) is explicitly to denote a region, not a language. I think people are more used to seeing a single flag per language.
• If we made the table sortable, we could allow the user to choose to sort them alphabetically without taking away the current order.

Toomai Glittershine The Obfuscating 10:26, August 23, 2025 (EDT)

I wanted to bring up adding mixed flags in the case something is the same between both versions of the same language in the (ex: the Latin American and European Spanish versions), in a similar fashion to Inkipedia.

I kinda meant as in adding en_us and en_gb support to the table like all other languages.

Another reason I brought up adding pt_br would be for if the next Smash game gets it.

Also I was gonna update some flag SVG files but they were locked to only admins being able to update them. --MrGame&Watch37 (talk) 09:22, August 23, 2025 (PDT)

My opinions:

• Dropping NTSC/PAL for this table is good. I can't confirm if there's an edge case or not, but it still has my support.
• Within video game discussion, I have more often than not seen the general "English", "Spanish", and "French" labels refer respectively to American English, European Spanish, and European French, and any differences being noted in specific relation to their siblings across the pond—which is to say, I'm also not enthusiastic about more mixed flags.
• I don't think it'd be any less correct to have the Canadian flag in place of the Quebec flag; I do think it might be a bit more universally recognizable, but that may just be me.
• I also don't think that this template is in dire need of futureproofing. If a language that wasn't in any of the previous games gets added to a future game, then it can be added to the table when it happens.

Aidan the Gamer 13:01, August 23, 2025 (EDT)

What did you mean when you said "any differences being noted in specific relation to their siblings across the pond?" --MrGame&Watch37 (talk) 13:15, August 28, 2025 (PDT)

I mean, should we ask people how we should handle the table in the case 2 versions of a language do use the same name whether we only use one flag or use a mixed flag to represent both varieties I’m that regard? --MrGame&Watch37 (talk) 12:05, August 23, 2025 (PDT)

On another side of things I have been wanting to overwrite some flag files although it says I can’t. --MrGame&Watch37 (talk) 17:54, August 24, 2025 (PDT)

Per SmashWiki:Protected image list/Flags, there is usually very little reason to edit flags. Given that some flags are used on hundreds, if not thousands, of pages, editing those would cause all of their server cache's to update. If you think you have a valid reason (such as a country updating their flag) then you can bring it up on their respective talk page.

As for the rest of the discussion. I also don't think we should be including languages that haven't been used in Smash, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. For ordering I think Japanese should remain at the top as the games are made in Japan and would be where many translations stem from; English next because that is the wiki's primary language, but under Japanese because the English version is hard to miss; everything else I have no opinion on. --CanvasK (talk) 21:15, August 24, 2025 (EDT)

Here is a list of flags I have been wanting to update (I apologize if I keep editing to include more flags, usually different ones might come up when I see the difference between here and Wikimedia Commons):

• Belgium: Use the civil version which is at a 3-2 ratio
• Brazil: Updated colors
• Canada: Pantone colors
• Panama: Updated colors
• Portugal: Official colors version
• Quebec: Pantone colors
• Switzerland: Pantone colors
• United Kingdom: 3-5 ratio
• United States: Updated colors

Another notion I would support (if possible) is remove English from the table as it’s already the wiki’s language. I did suggest using mixed flags for stuff that uses the same name in 2 versions of the same language. --MrGame&Watch37 (talk) 18:26, August 24, 2025 (PDT)

I think you missed where I said "If you think you have a valid reason ... bring it up on their respective talk page"--that means, if you have a change for the USA flag file, bring it up on the USA flag file's talk page. Your list of flag updates is irrelevant to the main discussion. You can make a list on your computer or phone if you want to keep track of it instead of updating this list. --CanvasK (talk) 22:20, August 24, 2025 (EDT)

Do the reasons for updating usually have to be longer than what I wrote? --MrGame&Watch37 (talk) 19:31, August 24, 2025 (PDT)

It actually gave me the option to overwrite a file in some of them, yet when I try to submit it it says This page is currently protected from editing because it is transcluded in the following pages, which are protected with the "cascading" option:

What does that mean? --MrGame&Watch37 (talk) 20:43, August 24, 2025 (PDT)

It means that the pages are mass-protected because of being on a protected page, and the only users capable of uploading new versions of the file are administrators and bureaucrats. This is true of all flags. Aidan the Gamer 23:50, August 24, 2025 (EDT)

Ah, I see. Previously it said I couldn’t overwrite but it’s kinda weird it put the option even though I can’t.

In the meantime I started to move reasons for overwriting flags to their respective pages, starting with the US and UK flags. --MrGame&Watch37 (talk) 21:01, August 24, 2025 (PDT)

It is not logical to remove English from the table entirely because of how we sometimes need to include both en_us and en_gb (as e.g. Super Scope does). Toomai Glittershine The Xanthic 09:07, August 25, 2025 (EDT)

Honestly now that I come back, I think it’s a double-edged sword on whether we should keep using the flag of Quebec in the table or use the flag of Canada. On one hand the flag of Quebec may be the one most commonly associated with Canadian French considering that’s where French is spoken the most. On the other there are more French-speaking in Canada than just Quebec (like New Brunswick). It’s a really tough choice in this scenario NGL. Also brought this message up on the talk page for the flag of Quebec earlier this week. --MrGame&Watch37 (talk) 17:32, September 4, 2025 (PDT)