Talk:Gravity
Excuse me, but why is Lucario listed as 11th and 35th? Squishyfrog Chat 19:15, 23 August 2011 (EDT)
- Maybe it is comparing Lucario at his different percentages? Mr. Anon (talk) 19:18, 23 August 2011 (EDT)
- One of them has been changed to Lucas. Toomai Glittershine
The Victorious 19:20, 23 August 2011 (EDT)
- One of them has been changed to Lucas. Toomai Glittershine
The page mentions how two characters with the same jump force will not jump the same height if their gravity is different, but does that mean that characters with lower gravity jump higher than characters with a higher gravity even if they have the same jump force and falling speed or is it the other way around? Blue Sun (talk) 2:30, 4 June 2015 (PST)
Gravity's role in knockback[edit]
This page mentions gravity's role in knockback multiple times, and says that it increases knockback.
I am fairly sure this is completely false in Melee. Not only is gravity separate from the initial knockback equation, but higher gravity characters get knocked back less distance because velocity directly subtracts gravity from itself per frame.
It does, however, appear to be true in Brawl. Smash 4 may also inherit this. In any case, someone with more 64/Smash 4 knowledge than me should clean this up to specify what games gravity actually increases knockback in. Gentlefox (talk) 01:40, 14 October 2015 (EDT)
Gravity makes characters take MORE knockback?[edit]
This says in Brawl and Smash 4 that gravity makes fighters take more vertical knockback, but says that Fox takes less knockback because he has higher gravity. I'm sure he does take less vertical knockback: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3x5ib0/clouds_finishing_touch_kill_percents/ -- Ethan (Discussion) 11:59, 23 January 2016 (EST)
Gravity penalty from vertical angles[edit]
In Ultimate, fighters have different gravity values when launched at between 70°-110°. When sent into tumbling, does the gravity penalty formula still applies from those values? Juju1995 (talk) 19:40, May 15, 2021 (EDT)
- Yes, it uses the altered values for those angles. Alex the Weeb 20:02, May 15, 2021 (EDT)
- I've tested to see how horizontal launch speed decays by using Yoshi's Egg Throw (which deals 6%, has a launch angle of 70°, BKB of 60 and KBS of 50) on Bowser at 815% and Pichu at 560% (so that they both receive roughly 264 KB) on the Training stage due to having the highest and lowest vertical gravity, respectively. And my theory is, regardless of their gravity, they both stopped roughly on the same spot. But I'm just guessing. Juju1995 (talk) 02:21, July 15, 2021 (EDT)
- That doesn't surprise me, the difference in GravPen for vertical knockback is quite small, and the effect of GravPen on horizontal launch speed decay depends on how much it changes the initial launch angle by, which at high angles will not be by very much. This situation is effectively GravPen actually working the way it was intended to, especially given that fall speed is not a variable. Alex the Weeb 12:35, July 16, 2021 (EDT)
- I have one more theory to point out. According to Ruben's Ultimate calculator, the GravPen doesn't show up in the knockback session when launched at the aforementioned angles, so I assume the GravPen doesn't apply to said angles. Even Rubin messaged to me about it, explaining that it doesn't use it. Juju1995 (talk) 09:47, July 22, 2021 (EDT)
- This appears to be correct. Using the following setup, I was able to show, hopefully fairly conclusively, that GravPen is not applied for these angles:
- I have one more theory to point out. According to Ruben's Ultimate calculator, the GravPen doesn't show up in the knockback session when launched at the aforementioned angles, so I assume the GravPen doesn't apply to said angles. Even Rubin messaged to me about it, explaining that it doesn't use it. Juju1995 (talk) 09:47, July 22, 2021 (EDT)
- That doesn't surprise me, the difference in GravPen for vertical knockback is quite small, and the effect of GravPen on horizontal launch speed decay depends on how much it changes the initial launch angle by, which at high angles will not be by very much. This situation is effectively GravPen actually working the way it was intended to, especially given that fall speed is not a variable. Alex the Weeb 12:35, July 16, 2021 (EDT)
- I've tested to see how horizontal launch speed decays by using Yoshi's Egg Throw (which deals 6%, has a launch angle of 70°, BKB of 60 and KBS of 50) on Bowser at 815% and Pichu at 560% (so that they both receive roughly 264 KB) on the Training stage due to having the highest and lowest vertical gravity, respectively. And my theory is, regardless of their gravity, they both stopped roughly on the same spot. But I'm just guessing. Juju1995 (talk) 02:21, July 15, 2021 (EDT)
- Cloud custom balance -3
- Cloud and opponent have defense ↑ attack ↓ level 99 Absolutely Safe Capsules
- Finishing Touch fully staled
- Xerneas knockback buff active
- The result is a move which deals less than 0.1% damage, making p in the knockback formula, and subsequently weight, effectively irrelevant, so the only variable now is GravPen. Despite this, both Pichu and Bowser are launched to the exact same horizontal point. While GravPen's effect would be weak here, it would not be negligible given the setup, so evidently it either wasn't applied, or is treated as the same for both. Images can be found here. Alex the Weeb 16:28, July 22, 2021 (EDT)
- There's also one more thing that I've found out. I think the disabling GravPen for vertical knockback also affects their vertical endurance. For example, on the Training stage, while receiving roughly 255 KB when launched at 90° would usually KO Bowser sooner and Pichu later, it's actually the opposite; KOs Bowser later and Pichu sooner. Juju1995 (talk) 17:13, July 22, 2021 (EDT)
- Yes, that's how that would work. While both of their fall speeds during hitstun will cap out at 1.8, Bowser will reach that fall speed a little bit sooner than Pichu, so would need slightly more knockback to be KOd, whereas with GravPen active, this effect would be overridden and Pichu would need slightly more knockback to be KOd. Alex the Weeb 05:40, July 23, 2021 (EDT)
- There's also one more thing that I've found out. I think the disabling GravPen for vertical knockback also affects their vertical endurance. For example, on the Training stage, while receiving roughly 255 KB when launched at 90° would usually KO Bowser sooner and Pichu later, it's actually the opposite; KOs Bowser later and Pichu sooner. Juju1995 (talk) 17:13, July 22, 2021 (EDT)
- The result is a move which deals less than 0.1% damage, making p in the knockback formula, and subsequently weight, effectively irrelevant, so the only variable now is GravPen. Despite this, both Pichu and Bowser are launched to the exact same horizontal point. While GravPen's effect would be weak here, it would not be negligible given the setup, so evidently it either wasn't applied, or is treated as the same for both. Images can be found here. Alex the Weeb 16:28, July 22, 2021 (EDT)
Gravity penalty from vertical angles (cont.)[edit]
Using Jigglypuff, I was able to test my theory that the GravPen is not affected by moves that launch at between 70°-110°. I experimented this during Training Mode, by using its up throw on Bowser and Pichu, both at 0%, first by grabbing them and summoning a Super Star, so that they both receive exactly 135.4 KB because both p and d are not factored into the knockback formula while they're invincible. And by enabling the Trajectory Guide option, when used on Bowser, he is launched slightly lower than when used on Pichu, due to his high vertical gravity, according to the 0% red line. Juju1995 (talk) 09:54, June 14, 2022 (EDT)
- You need to let this go. It's already been proven that GravPen is not active for these angles. Repeatedly extending the discussion without adding anything of merit is not productive. Also, never use throws to try and test GravPen, release heights are inconsistent between fighters, even from the same throw. Alex the Weeb 10:05, June 14, 2022 (EDT)
