Talk:Clone/Archive 3

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Falco and wolf?Lucas-IV- Try to Talk 07:33, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Clone-ness is transitive. So if Fox and Falco are semiclones, and Fox and Wolf are semiclones, then Falco and Wolf are semiclones. Toomai Glittershine The SMASH-GINEER 08:49, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

So try to make the reader do the logical thinking by him/herself?.... sounds fine to me i guessLucas-IV- Try to Talk 08:57, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Is it really necessary...

To have a note saying some people consider Lucario and Mewtwo "semi-clones", just because one move is similar? If we did that, we might as well as have Roy and Ike there as "semi-clones" (neutral special), Bowser and Charizard (neutral special again), Mario and Yoshi (up smash, neutral aerial, forward aerial), etc. Also, I say Fox and Wolf would fit a note section, rather than actually being listed as semi-clones (they only have three specials similar in function and name, with the rest of their movesets being completely different, as well as not so similar physics). Omega Tyrant 18:59, 7 August 2011 (EDT)

Unlike some of the other things you mentioned, the Mewtwo/Lucario thing is rather notorious and a very strong point of contention earlier in Brawl's lifetime. As for Fox/Wolf - I'm very sure that the mentality of the general public is that they are more like semi-clones than non-clones, so while it's probably the biggest stretch on the page, it should be kept. Toomai Glittershine The Bold 19:04, 7 August 2011 (EDT)

The Mewtwo/Lucario stems from false speculation that Lucario "replaced" Mewtwo, and those that makes such claims that they're clones have done so with terrible arguments that shows ignorance stemming from the replacing mentality (and lack of experience). Just because some people made the ridiculous claim that they have cloneship, doesn't exactly mean we should have to mention that on the mainspace page. If we're to mention it, it has to have some logical backing behind it, and calling two characters semi-clones just because of one move is not. Otherwise, we'll have to start acknowledging other ridiculous clone claims based on such a ridiculously lenient standard of what constitutes cloneship and general ignorance of the game (Ike and Marth being such an example that would have to go on, who also got claims of being semi-clones in the past, despite that their similarities being little to none).

Rather than acknowledge these claims, it would be better to just ignore them, and keep an acceptable standard to the page.

As for Fox and Wolf, while casuals tend to view them as semi-clones due to ignorance/inexperience, examination of their moveset and other statistics show they have very little to call them clones. As such, the note mentioning that they get sometimes viewed as semi-clones, despite the large amount of differences, is sufficient, rather than listing them among the semi-clones. Omega Tyrant 19:29, 7 August 2011 (EDT)

I mostly agree with Omega Tyrant, though I'm mostly neutral on the Wolf/Fox one. If we consider this pair as Semiclones, then we would have a pretty clear "lower line" of Clone/Semiclone category. Mr. Anon (talk) 00:20, 8 August 2011 (EDT)

Mario and Luigi

Are Mario and Luigi really clones in Brawl????--Thejfh1999 (talk) 18:09, 3 November 2011 (EDT)

They're definitely not clones, but they have enough similar to qualify as semi-clones. Omega Tyrant 18:33, 3 November 2011 (EDT)

Apparently Masahiro Sakurai said that there will not be clones in Brawl, and this is true in a way. ..... More Food........ 18:41, 3 November 2011 (EDT)

Um, okay? BlindColours 18:47, 3 November 2011 (EDT)

Too bad he forgot to change Toon Link, the only remaining clone. 71.87.116.224 20:03, 14 June 2013 (EDT)

Don't comment on old and resolved discussions. Omega Tyrant 20:10, 14 June 2013 (EDT)

Clones and Semiclones

The following should be considered Semiclones in Brawl: Post here about clones and semiclones and your thought.

--Dinoboy411 (talk) 09:12, 31 January 2012 (EST)

There are no clones in SSBB, but some are considered semi clones. ..... The Overmind 09:15, 31 January 2012 (EST)

This is not appropriate talk page discussion. Refer to SW:TALK. Mr. Anontalk 18:54, 31 January 2012 (EST)

Are you talking about my post? ..... The Liquid 19:06, 31 January 2012 (EST)

He aimed it at the OP, he should have indented correctly though. Omega Tyrant 19:24, 31 January 2012 (EST)

Both of your posts violated SW:SIGN, and I was addressing both of them. Discussion of who is a clone and who is not, unless it will impact the article itself, does not belong here. The discussion seemed to be about a general discussion of who is a clone and who is a semiclone, rather than about how this article's standards should be. Mr. Anontalk 21:36, 31 January 2012 (EST)

How does SW:SIGN in this talk have anything to do with? I do however agree that my post was irrelevant so sorry about that. ..... The Liquid 23:24, 31 January 2012 (EST)

I meant SW:TALK. I was writing on my phone, and it autocorrected to "SW:SIGN" (because I had previously added it to autocorrect during my edit to Mr. Curious' page). Mr. Anontalk 16:34, 1 February 2012 (EST)

Kirby and Jigglypuff

When it says that Ganondorf and C. Falcon are the only clones to come from different universes, that contradicts the fact that Kirby and Jigglypuff are clones in SSB. Hands off my Bread!King KirbyD (talk) 19:21, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

Kirby and Jigglypuff are only semi-clones in SSB. Also, read SW:SIGN, as your sig violates this by using a mainspace image, which would be too big anyway. Toast ltimatum 19:25, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

Mewtwo and Lucario

I know there not even close to similar but should just be a tiny note talking about Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere? --Dinoboy411 (talk) 16:50, 10 December 2013 (EST)

It's not really relevant. Scr7(talk · contribs) 16:57, 10 December 2013 (EST)

Most characters have a move that's very similar to that of another character's; e.g. Bowser's Flame Breath and Charizard's Flamethrower, Luigi's Green Missile and Pikachu's/Pichu's Skull Bash, most neutral aerial sex kicks, most sword character's down smashes, etc. So no, a note about one move isn't necessary. Omega Tyrant 21:59, 10 December 2013 (EST)

Well then again we have a note in the brawl section about how some people think Ike and Marth are clones when they arent so why not talk about how Mewtwo and Lucario are not clones despite people thinking they are --Dinoboy411 (talk) 16:50, 10 December 2013 (EST)

The characters mentioned by the article previously had clones in Melee, but lack even a semi-clone in Brawl. Roy and Marth were clones, and some people believe that Ike replaced Roy. They are also just as quick to assume that Marth and Ike must be clones just because Ike "replaced" Marth's old clone. Mewtwo didn't have a clone, and is only misconceived as "replaced" while Ike "replaced" Roy, who was a clone of Marth. Also, when responding, put : in the front of your post so that it is indented to represent a response to a statement, adding one more : for each : used by the user being responded to (Respond to this statement with two ::). MegaTron1XD 18:35, 12 December 2013 (EST)

Marth/Ike in the early days had a fair bit of the clone claims though, in a level similar to Fox/Wolf. It died down of course, as anyone with half a brain could see Marth/Ike aren't remotely similar beyond just being blue-haired characters with swords and having similar neutral and down specials. With Mewtwo/Lucario, it's really just a few whackjobs who seemingly never played one of the characters who say they must be clones because of the insistent "Lucario replaced Mewtwo!" myth and the similar neutral special. Really, if the "Lucario replaced Mewtwo!" myth wasn't as big as it is, this clone discussion about it wouldn't be happening at all.

To summarise; Marth/Ike are in a position similar to Fox/Wolf, though to a lesser degree that was more prominent in the early days, while Mewtwo/Lucario is simply a blatant misconception spouted out by a few idiots who obviously never played one of the characters, fueled by the "Lucario replaced Mewtwo!" myth.

Also Mega, "Ike replaced Roy" is a myth as well. Omega Tyrant 18:54, 12 December 2013 (EST)

Link/Toon Link SSB4

I don't know many technical things, so I won't be good at this, but I'm pretty sure Link and Toon Link are still semi-clones (at least) in SSB4. Nutta Butta (talk)

...well I could have done that... lol A new challengeris approaching...