Talk:Birdo

Gender

Birdo's gender is clearly female. Regardless of whether she's still canonically trans or if she's been retconned to be born female, there is no source that says she is not female except for Brawl's trophy. TheNuttyOne 18:14, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

“	He thinks he is a girl and spits eggs from his mouth. He'd rather be called "birdetta."	”
—The Super Mario Bros. 2 manual

I rest my case. Aidan, the College-Bound Rurouni 19:07, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

Yep, that's what would be called "transgender". In some websites, you can be verbally assaulted and/or banned for hate speech if you assert that that doesn't count.

But even if we for some reason decide to adopt a transphobic stance, that's a 30+-year-old statement and, with very few exceptions, every game since has consistently depicted her as female. She is considered a "woman of racing" in Mario Kart 8. In Captain Rainbow, she is proven to be female despite her appearance and voice. In her Mario Party 8 character bio, she is referred to with female pronouns. Popple (somewhat reluctantly, but still) calls her a "dame" in Superstar Saga and its remake. She's a "her" in her Mario Kart Wii trading card info. Heck, even Melee uses female pronouns despite Brawl's claims otherwise. And honestly, it wouldn't be the first piece of conflicting information in a Brawl trophy. TheNuttyOne 19:24, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

Problem is, it's that very conflicting information that prevents us from doing anything. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 20:09, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

To be fair, Nintendo changes their stances on subjects all the time. Two notable examples come to mind: Sheik's gender in Zelda and what Mario games are considered mainstream. A nearly 30 year old mention in an instruction manual shouldn't have as much influence as several other instances where Birdo is called a female. The Brawl trophy doesn't really matter either as Smash trophies are known to have erroneous descriptions and don't reflect the original devs thoughts anyways. Also, if we're to remain consistent with other wikis, then by default we should be officially calling her a female, as the Mario Wiki does. Pokebub (talk)

Even most of the games that call her male state that she would rather be called female. Brawl is the only game I'm aware of that ever indicates her gender is debatable. TheNuttyOne 22:20, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

As far as I'm concerned, we're nowhere close to having a clear answer from Nintendo, and since speculation is not permitted on the wiki, that means we must leave Birdo's gender as unknown for the time being. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 03:23, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

Except we do have a clear answer from Nintendo. SMB2 and Brawl were literally the only 2 games with mentions of Birdo being male. Every other game featuring Birdo classifies her as female. Pokebub (talk) 03:34, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

And many other games use neutral terms (such as SSB4, which avoids gender pronouns for it). Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 05:48, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

It's not the only trophy in Smash 4 not to use pronouns. Sheik's alt. trophy doesn't, nor does Ciela's or Malladus's, even though all three have clearly defined genders otherwise (okay, Sheik isn't the best example, but her normal trophy clearly uses feminine pronouns). We don't know why they didn't use a pronoun, so we can't use that as evidence. Lack of pronouns doesn't mean non-defined gender.

What "many other games" use gender neutral terms? I would think they would be listed in MarioWiki's "Gender" section, but Brawl is the only one there. TheNuttyOne 13:32, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

Again, if we're to remain consistent with the MarioWiki, then we should automatically go with female. Pokebub (talk) 16:24, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

So the current count:

FEMALE:

1. Mario Kart 8/Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
2. Captain Rainbow
3. Mario Party 8
4. Superstar Saga/Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions
5. Mario Kart Wii
6. Melee
7. Mario Superstar Baseball
8. Mario Kart: Double Dash!!
9. Super Mario Advance

MALE-TO-FEMALE TRANSGENDER:

1. Super Mario Bros. 2
2. Wario's Woods

NO PRONOUNS SPECIFIED:

1. Smash 4
2. Mario Party 9
3. Mario Party 7
4. Mario Super Sluggers

GENDERLESS/UNDETERMINABLE GENDER:

1. Brawl

...This seems pretty straightforward to me. TheNuttyOne 12:21, 22 May 2018 (EDT)

Would anyone else like to share/defend a counter-argument? TheNuttyOne 13:47, 24 May 2018 (EDT)

So am I safe to make the change, then? TheNuttyOne 16:47, 27 May 2018 (EDT)

Tell ya what pal, how about you have a quick read of SW:CONSENSUS and see if that answers your question. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 16:49, 27 May 2018 (EDT)