Talk:Mushroom Kingdom U

From SmashWiki, the Super Smash Bros. wiki

Kamek or Magikoopa?[edit]

As of now, we don't know if it's Kamek or a Magikoopa. Kamek is the name of the Magikoopa race in the actual Japanese series. This makes it ambiguous. We have to wait till gameplay comes up to "prove" it's the character or the race. It's likely of that, but Sakurai did outright say the race name instead of his Japanese name(Fangs).

Another fact is that few Magikoopas used actual Brooms. Kamek does, meaning if he flies on instead of teleports, it's more clear. It's not clear as day, and the translator had no way to know if it was Kamek or a Magikoopa due to likely not knowing the race name difference. It makes little sense to assume it. I do think it's more likely because of the game it's based upon, but characters from other games(who never appeared in an actual game can show up. Silver cannot legitimate show up in Green Hill Zone, but he's there in Brawl, making this clearly something that can happen). My ultimate suggestion is to wait to actually see firsthand who it is, not rely on a post that may be more ambiguous than it looks. Likewise, for the same reason, even on Smashboards, we refuse to list Kamek as definitely a Stage Hazard, and just likely one. The proof is a little ambiguous. Only cares about the facts, not speculation. e3 should clear this up properly. Only cares about the facts, not speculation.

I can also say that it's speculated that it was Kamek. It's left ambiguous overall, thus, waiting is the best way to dit. 02:06, 8 June 2014 (EDT) ~HyperFalcon(for some reason, my name isn't showing up with the tildes, apologies). —Preceding unsigned comment added by HyperFalcon (talkcontribs) 02:09, 8 June 2014 (EDT)‎

I'm a stickler for limiting to clearly confirmed content, but unless you have some particular reason to assume the translator made an error, we should stick to what they said. When has the individual Kamek ever gone by any other name in Japanese besides カメック, the same name as the species? Miles (talk) 02:17, 8 June 2014 (EDT)
He explicitly goes by the nickname Fang in one of the other games. For whatever reason, MarioWiki doesn't specify, it's just the nickname of the character. The translator has made small errors before too. In the first appearance of Koume and Kotake, the Japanese post actually says "Are they really evil?" while his says "They're definitely evil", which are two completely different phrases. We have a reason to believe he's doing his best, but doesn't know everything. It's just a translator, not necessary an actual SSB/Nintendo expert. That's enough reason to know they're not perfect, and we could wait to see it.
I'll say the broom is the proof, not the possible translation error. As we know the errors can exist, we should remain cautious for the moment. Keep in mind it probably is Kamek, but there's no reason to believe he can't have been referring to a Magikoopa. Him actually meaning Kamek is suspicious in itself to a degree. I would say which one he meant was actual speculation. Only cares about the facts, not speculation. 02:25, 8 June 2014 (EDT)(HyperFalcon(again, name won't show up right)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by HyperFalcon (talkcontribs) 02:25, 8 June 2014‎ (EDT)
Can you cite a source for this instance of "Fang"? Additionally, the generic Magikoopas in Smash Run ride brooms, as seen in the Direct, so that shouldn't be a reason to doubt this either.
"Him actually meaning Kamek is suspicious in itself to a degree."
In what way is it suspicious for Sakurai to refer to a character who appeared in NSMBU appearing on a stage based on NSMBU performing an action (altering terrain) that's consistent with his past appearances? Unless you have a more specific reason to doubt this specific translation other than "it could be wrong", it's unnecessary concern. Right now, the evidence supports the translation. Miles (talk) 02:31, 8 June 2014 (EDT)
Because we have zero way of knowing what he meant, the character or the race. He doesn't made a good clarification at all. It could literally "Magikoopa will appear and..." and it'd make just as much sense. He failed to said "Kamekku race" or try to refer to him as a character. As Kamekku in Japan could refer to both respectively(since some may not call him Fang, and my bad, I think that's supposed to a fan nickname that many used to tell the race and character apart. That's what I can gather from MarioWiki. They said "For information about the Magikoopa with the nickname "Fang", see Kamek." Also, since the broom doesn't amount to much(only Paper Mario Magikoopa uses Brooms in any Mario game), it's a pure lack of research on Sakurai's part overall. This lack of research in itself overall shows we can't trust the pure name alone. Also, Kamek does have a different coloring in one of the Mario games, being a different shade of purple, so perhaps he'll recolor him. If they look exactly alike, we ultimately have no way to legitimately tell. By e3, we might know it properly. Also, I should note he's done this kind of thing officially before. He's put in characters not from the official stage(or game) into the stage. Silver cannot ever appear in any Green Hill Zone and does so in Brawl. Throwing a Magikoopa in would be equivalent to this and is proof he sometimes ignores the original games. Likewise, Adult Link from OOT cannot use the Boomerang(although that can be argued in that he meant a Link in general), but there's now way TP Zelda can use Phantom Zelda as a move(and he threw in Phantom Zelda's particular design instead of a generic one). He does ignore canon too many times to not take this as ambiguous until it shows up. While I think the Broom somewhat matters, if only because if a Magikoopa warps in, and changes it without riding a Broom, he obviously meant the race. If not, it's left ambiguous because of the Broom error. Regular Magikoopas never used them. Only the Paper Mario versions do, and why would he use their non-PM design? It's overall suspicious how he's doing all this. I do stand that it's a little odd right now and we should wait at least till e3 to actually make this the final version, assuming new information doesn't come up, like a Toon Link -> Alfonzo situation where Kamek(character) is playable. 02:39, 8 June 2014 (EDT)(HyperFalcon) —Preceding unsigned comment added by HyperFalcon (talkcontribs) 03:17, 8 June 2014‎ (EDT)

Since the Japanese post is ambiguous and the English post is the only other official source we have, it's probably not really worth anyone's time to debate this until the character's name is seen in-game with a trophy or something (because even visually Kamek is indistinguishable from a generic Magikoopa). If we happen to be wrong, it's not because we assumed something out of the blue, it's because we've been mislead. Toomai Glittershine ??? The Metroid 09:44, 8 June 2014 (EDT)

That sounds fair. I'd say leave the page that until we get better information. Sounds agreeable? HyperFalcon: Only cares about the facts, not speculation. (talk) 18:19, 8 June 2014 (EDT)