Talk:Hammer (move)

Sweetspot

Why is it good for a move to have no sweetspot? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sbe (talk • contribs) 20:45, 9 August 2009

Moves with sweetspots are usually high-risk-high-reward moves. Take Falcon's knee for example - if it hits, it HITS; if it misses, it's useless. (And unless you're t3h mast3r, it will miss often.) Moves without sweetspots don't have the raw power, but are generally more reliable, and therefore arguably more useful. (And don't forget to sign your talk page comments with ~~~~.) Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 20:01, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I can't sign because no matter how hard I try to press on the top of the key, it comes out like this. ```` And I AM t3h mast3r. Oh, wait, should I click on the cursive writing button? --Sbe (talk) 20:08, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

To put it another way, if there's no "sweetspot", there's also no "sourspot", so no matter which part of the hammer makes contact, it does the same damage and knockback, so you don't have to worry as much about aiming the attack. And yes, if ~~~~ doesn't work, just use the button with cursive writing on it - it does exactly the same thing. PenguinofDeath 21:02, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Wait, what? You've been pressing the top of the [`~] key to get the "~"? Just use the Shift key; same as if you're trying to get a "?". Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 21:10, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

For me, aiming an attack is as easy as using it. Sbe (talk)

Name

Has the move actually been named "Hammer Flip" in SSB4, or is it just the name of the charge-and-release part of it? Toomai Glittershine The Incomprehensible 16:38, 16 April 2014 (EDT)

im pretty sure its now Hammer Flip. In Kirby games its called SUPER Hammer Flip. --Myth 16:49, 16 April 2014 (EDT)

Hammer Flip

In Triple Deluxe (and probably Return to Dream Land and Dream Collection's challenges), "Hammer" is Kirby's standard B attack, while "Hammer Flip" is his up B attack. In Smash, I believe that Hammer and Hammer Flip work differently enough to be considered separate moves. I would like others' opinions on this. Red (talk) 20:50, 18 June 2014 (EDT)

Hammer Flip should be covered on this page, honestly. That's like saying we need to cover all of Marth's Dancing Blade permutations separately. Variants of the same move belong on the same page, not separate ones. Miles (talk) 20:59, 18 June 2014 (EDT)

However, in this case, it has a different name and works much differently. Red (talk) 21:04, 18 June 2014 (EDT)

We're covering customization options on the same pages as the main versions, and this is no more different than those. Info on Hammer Flip belongs as a part of this article. Miles (talk) 21:09, 18 June 2014 (EDT)

Okay. then. Red (talk) 21:22, 18 June 2014 (EDT)

EGX Booklet

I'm mostly only putting this here to avoid SW:1RV, but I believe my edit was wrongly reverted. It's questionable as to whether or not we should revert all uses of "Hammer Flip" back to "Hammer", but everything I put in my edit was factual, even if it were just mere trivia. Toast ltimatum 17:32, 29 September 2014 (EDT)

Does the American version of Smash 3DS call the move "Hammer Flip" or something? Because in my PAL game, the move is clearly named Hammer, and I fail to see why we haven't changed back yet if there isn't a regional difference involved. Toast ltimatum 12:24, 9 November 2014 (EST)

Yeah my Canadian version calls it "Hammer Flip" (both game and booklet). Toomai Glittershine The Metroid 12:39, 9 November 2014 (EST)

I'll go around making edits to reflect the regional difference then. However, seeing as the PAL version treats Hammer Flip like the same move as Hammer from Brawl, should we still list the move separately in Kirby's move table? Toast ltimatum 12:49, 9 November 2014 (EST)

Personally, I think we should ignore what NoA thinks and only call it the "Hammer Flip" when it's fully charged, like how some people refuse to call it the Fire Jump Punch unless the sweetspot is hit. Toomai Glittershine The Free 12:53, 9 November 2014 (EST)

That would make sense to me. It provides consistency, and the PAL version does specify that the move "becomes" Hammer Flip at full charge. Toast ltimatum 12:59, 9 November 2014 (EST)

Duplicate Electric Ness

here's a video of a glitch involving Kirby's hand to be on fire.

<youtube>zEyxVrkKUIs</youtube>

Smashworker101 (talk) 22:25, 15 February 2015 (EST)

Move

I Oppose on the grounds that the move is called "Hammer Flip" only in the NTSC version of Smash 4. In the PAL version, and in Melee and Brawl, it's simply called "Hammer", so I personally think majority should rule in this case. Serpent King 06:05, 13 January 2016 (EST)

agreed Nintendofan1653 (talk) the true north strong and free 12:03, 13 January 2016 (EST)

Neutral, leaning towards support. We list the NTSC version's name....don't we? Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 15:42, 13 January 2016 (EST)

Except the NTSC's name in Melee and Brawl is simply "Hammer". Suddenly calling it "Hammer Flip" is inaccurate. Serpent King 15:45, 13 January 2016 (EST)

I wouldn't say it's inaccurate, because it is accurate - just not to Melee and Brawl. That said, I weak support on the grounds that 1) this is a clearer title and 2) it's the most recent name, and that generally trumps most common name (not here, but on most encyclopedias). ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 16:22, 13 January 2016 (EST)

Oppose per SK. Miles (talk) 17:15, 13 January 2016 (EST)

Considering I tagged it, I initially supported this, but reading was Serpent had to say, I now oppose, because I was not aware of that. Disaster Flare (talk) 23:57, 15 January 2016 (EST)

Oppose. It's only called "Hammer Flip" in one translation of one game; shouldn't we go with the more commonly-used name? BaconMaster331 talk 11:18, 16 January 2016 (EST)

Weak support. Wasn't the name changed in the Japanese version of Smash 4, too? Nyargleblargle (Contribs) 21:52, 16 January 2016 (EST)

Weak Oppose. It was changed in both NTSC and Japanese versions of the game. It's the same with Link's Boomerang: it appeared in two Smash games as a normal Boomerang, then in Brawl onward it was changed to the Gale Boomerang, but the page is still "Boomerang." Here, it appeared in Melee and Brawl as the Hammer, and now in SSB4 it's now the Hammer Flip. I'd support it only if there was corresponding consistency with Gale Boomerang, but the basis of these moves are boomerangs and hammers. Aardvarkian (Talk • Contributions) 22:00, 16 January 2016 (EST)

Well there is no way I am supporting a move to gale boomerang so... Serpent King 22:02, 16 January 2016 (EST)

Not if majority rules, obviously. A change to Gale Boomerang has a little more of an argument behind it than this due to it appearing in half the games, but also has Toon and Young Link holding it back, unless there's a split. But that's not what we're discussing here lol Aardvarkian (Talk • Contributions) 22:06, 16 January 2016 (EST)

I'd say the difference between this and Boomerang would be TLink and YLink. There's no reason to split, and Boomerang is a better catchall than Gale Boomerang. On the other hand, this is nothing more than Kirby's move, so there's no reason to do a catchall term. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 22:08, 16 January 2016 (EST)

That's true. The thing with Link's Bow is that it was just a design and name change, without much change in function. Here, this is a change of function and name. It functions the same as in Brawl except with the addition of charging and walking while charging. I'm going to change to support. Aardvarkian (Talk • Contributions) 22:13, 16 January 2016 (EST)

I can see that consensus is very split here...so unless this is resolved in a couple of days, I'll have to go with the absolute poll which currently is oppose by 1 vote. Serpent King 17:41, 18 January 2016 (EST)

Kirby's neutral special is called "Vacuum" in 64, "Swallow" in Melee and "Inhale" in Brawl. However, we use inhale because that's the most recent name. (You could argue that the reason we use this name is that it appears in more than one game, but I'm pretty sure it was named that before Smash 4 was released). Based on this, I support the move. Tepig (talk) 13:24, 19 January 2016 (EST)

Oppose Hammer Flip is only referenced by the default move. Hammer Bash and Giant Hammer don't mention Flip. DekZek 17:32, 19 January 2016 (EST)

That's pretty loose logic. Super Jump Punch's don't either - one is just Super Jump, while the other is Explosive Punch. So should we move it? ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:37, 19 January 2016 (EST)

Hammer Flip functions the same as Hammer in Brawl. It just has a Fire effect, and gets a different name. Super Jump Punch exists in all 4 games, and keeps the same name in SSB4. DekZek 17:44, 19 January 2016 (EST)

That's slightly more sound logic, but we renamed Inhale and Hero's Bow. What's the difference here? ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:48, 19 January 2016 (EST)

And they functioned exactly the same too. Dang, this debate is really torn. Disaster Flare (talk) 17:48, 19 January 2016 (EST)

Btw, I'm changing my vote to strong support. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:56, 19 January 2016 (EST)

I'm tempted to support again, but for now, I'll just change my vote to neutral, leaning to support. Disaster Flare (talk) 17:57, 19 January 2016 (EST)

I oppose per SK. I haven't seen a good (IMO) refute to his logic. ---This message is from Penro. 19:10, 19 January 2016 (EST)

Pretty split still...6 oppose, 4 support, 2 neutral leaning towards support. Aardvarkian (Talk • Contributions) 16:51, 20 January 2016 (EST)

I think SK is counting the neutral-towards-supports as full supports, or at least half votes, which would make it 6:6 or 6:5. Still, we can't really call that a consensus.

So I guess bump. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 16:53, 20 January 2016 (EST)

Boom, bam, bop, bodabop boomp, pow. Aardvarkian (Talk • Contributions) 19:43, 20 January 2016 (EST)

Bump. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 12:19, 22 January 2016 (EST)

To Penro: I'm not sure if you didn't read my reasoning, didn't think it was good, or didn't understand. So I will try to make it clearer: Kirby's neutral special has had three different names across the different games, but we use Inhale because that's the most recent one. So I think we should name this one by the most recent name too. Tepig (talk) 12:29, 22 January 2016 (EST)

The name change was made not only in the NTSC version, but also the Japanese version. For Smash 4, the majority lies with "Hammer Flip." Aardvarkian (Talk • Contributions) 13:11, 22 January 2016 (EST)