Talk:Fox (SSBB)/Archive 1

Role in the subspace...

Hey please can some one put the source of the screenshot of Fox In the Jungle? --Fandangox 12:00, October 27, 2007 (EDT)

Pros.

Hey guys! I'm new at this but I thought I'd let you know but I've seen this video on youtube (yeah I know I was board) where fox spikes (I'm pretty sure) someone hanging on a ledge using his Dair (near the end of the clip) but I wasn't sure so I wanted you guys to check it out. I think it should go under pros, as it has much more knock back on the first hit than his melee incarnation and it can be used to Edge Guard and Ledge Hog which I think is a big plus.

So I guess I just add it in here is evidence of where I saw the 'spike': zFtMNErjeAk --Pyrofox 16:16, March 7, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pyrofox (talk • contribs) 20:49, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this is a meteor smash. However, if you watch, it doesn't appear very powerful. That Pikachu could have easily recovered if he did it correctly. AND he was at 170%+ when he was hit. The move has been a (weak) meteor smash in all three games though, so this isn't really news. --Wildfire393 17:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Some people must really hate Fox. In the Cons section, people are just putting the same idea under different bullets, I mean come on, Lacking K.O. moves and fairly weak moves are the same thing! --Pyrofox —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pyrofox (talk • contribs) 00:03, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Is Fox really nerfed in Brawl? If anything, I believe he's improved. His falling speed has slowed down a little, making recoveries easier. He can also SHTL now instead of just doing a SHDL. Also, he's not as overpowered anymore, so he's more fair. Here's to Fox's success in Brawl! - GalaxiaD (talk) 05:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Recruiting

OK all who are willing. I need lots of help. I need all the moveset to look all alike. I need people willing to help! If you choose to accept this challenge, use Meta Knight's moveset as a perfect example. If you want to help the cause, leave your username under the category on my userpage called "Recruiting". This message is also there. Let's fix these movesets. --Oxico (talk) 20:49, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I made sure when I created Fox's moveset to include the damage percentages for all of his attacks. Unless the damage each attack deals isn't considered anything important, the other movesets should follow this format. --Schewe (talk) 21:26, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

0 to death?

"His vulnerability against 0-death chain-grabs" explanation please,who has a 0 to death chain grab on fox besides the ice climbers infinite?~gig~

Pikachu can 0-death Fox with his down throw chain throw. Also as I said in your previous posts, sign your comments. Omega Tyrant 04:42, 9 October 2010 (EDT)

then shouldnt it just say pikachus 0 to death chain grab,the way its worded now makes it seem like more than one character has a 0 to death on fox ~gig~

Probably, though Sheik's f-tilt lock can cause massive damage on Fox I believe. I'll go reword it. Also, please sign your comments with four tildes ~~~~. If you want to be known as gig, make an account. Omega Tyrant 04:57, 9 October 2010 (EDT)

last time i signed my post i was blocked by someone called clarinet hawk or something despite not having done anything wrong,at least not intentionaly,and i was brand new to the site,still am,and the reason given was "youre horrible,go away" and i returned once my ban was over and attempted to erase everything i posted and everything that was said in response to it and yet it was restored,so i was blocked for what i posted and yet when i tried to delete it it was brought back,if youre curious to what it was,it was on the meta knight(SSBB)talk page,pertaining to the pit vs meta knight section,speaking of which that entire talk page seems to be filled with unecessary banter and most of it should be deleted

You don't remove talk page content. Simple as that. You were not blocked for signing. You were blocked for other reasons. You still sign with ~~~~, because if you don't, you can get blocked by that.--MegaTron1XD 21:49, 9 October 2010 (EDT)

been doing some testing,turns out pikachus down throw 0 to death chaingrab is no longer a 0 to death if you set the damage ratio to 1.1 or higher,it becomes a regular chaingrab at 1.1 and no longer a chain grab any higher than that,this is true for the majority of chain grabs,most no longer become chain grabs at 1.2 and barely a chain grab at all at 1.1 with the exception of dedede's,should this be added on fox's trivia?Gig (talk) 05:22, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

No, because 1.0 is the standard damage ratio and it is rather obvious that chain throws and combos will become less effective or even ineffective at higher damage ratios. It is just the natural effect of messing with the damage ratio and nothing notable. Omega Tyrant 08:30, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

brawl plays best at a 1.2 damage ratio setting,both competitively and non competitive,it removes the unfair advantage that is chain grabs on all the heavy weights and fast fallers and makes KOing in general less of a hassle which has always been one of the complaints among smashers in relation to brawl,if the majority of combos and hitstun have been removed the best alternative is improving the killing power of all attacks,with a 1.2 damage ratio setting smash attacks can actually kill effectively without needing to be charged and having very high damage,and throws that couldnt KO now have some KOing potential without needing to be at ridiculous percents and it improves edgeguarding significantly since the greater knockback makes it far more difficult for characters to make it back on stage specially at higher percents,this should be mentioned in at least the article pertaining to damage ratio if no mention of it is going in fox's pageGig (talk) 11:45, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

Do realise that it's your opinion that a damage ratio of "1.2" is the best to use and not what is actually practised. For people that do play competitively, they agree on a damage ratio of 1.0, and that has been the standard since the beginning. The competitive community also has no problems with chain throws in both Melee and Brawl, not deeming them to be unfair and to just be another part of the game. As such, we do not allow trivia on this Wiki based on the rules that one individual plays with, and what I mentioned in my last post stands. There are many flaws that comes with increasing the damage ratio (one such is attacks with high base knockback instead of knocback scaling gaining much more KO power from an increase in damage ratio), but it would be best for you and for everyone else for me to not argue that against you, and I am not in a mood to do so. Now, there is no trivia being included in the article about this and any attempt to put it in the article will be reverted. Also, please try to use proper grammar and punctuation in your posts, it is more difficult than it should be to understand you. Omega Tyrant 12:02, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

rules change,holding on to melee standards for brawl is foolish,and in brawl chain grabs and locks can completely remove any hope of victory in some matchups such as fox vs pikachu or sheik vs ganondorf thus they are indeed unfair and chain grabs in general are unecessary and require little to no skill to pull of,1.2 damage ratio makes the game significantly more balanced and if pros cared more about competitive equality and not easy victorys theyd probably agree too,but the majority of "pro" smashers would exploit any cheap method that would grant them an easy victory and lack any real competitive spirit which is usually why theyre against banning infinites of any sort,no matter how ridiculously easy and unfair it might be,it should at least be mentioned in the damage ratio article that setting the DR in brawl to 1.2 removes the majority of chain grabs,simply because it is a fact and thats what the wiki exists for,giving people the factsGig (talk) 12:30, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

You're still not realising that this is your own opinion and is not fact while having no empirical backing. Just because you think it is more balanced doesn't mean it is (again, I can provide all the crap that would come with a higher damage ratio, but I won't as it doesn't even belong on this page and I suggest you don't provoke me). I highly suggest you read the works of David Sirlin, the concept of "cheap" and "takes no skill" doesn't exist. While you and other players that make up these self limiting rules in your heads that consider chain throwing "cheap", other players do not, and they do not need to follow rules you mentally restrict yourself with. I would also like to remind you that no matchups are impossible, especially the ones you mentioned. Foxes have, and will continue to get by the d-throw 0-death and defeat Pikachus. Ganondorfs will continue to get by the f-tilt lock, and defeat Sheiks (also, Sheik is far from Ganondorf's worst). If a player can't get by a chain throw, then it is their own fault and shouldn't whine about it being "cheap" or "unfair". Now, I already mentioned two posts ago why it's a terrible idea to include trivia based on damage ratio. Since you seemed to have ignored it, I'll say it again. That trivia is poor and unnecessary, because 1.0 is the standard damage ratio (as in, the standard of the game physics, and the standard everyone uses to play competitively), and it is rather obvious that chain throws and combos will become less effective or even ineffective at higher damage ratios. It is just the natural effect of messing with the damage ratio and nothing notable. Allowing such trivia would open up a floodgate that inflates the trivia sections with poor, unnecessary, and often obvious trivia. Now, if you really want this trivia in so badly, actually refute this point, and do not go on about how you think "1.2 is the best to use and most balanced" and how "chain throws are cheap and pros shouldn't use them". Your own opinion on chain throws and what makes for the best competitive play is completely irrelevant to whether trivia about chain throws not being effective at higher damage ratios should belong. So please, don't bother posting if you're not going to address the main point I brought up as I do not feel like listening to one's rant about how the competitive community plays, which wasn't relevant or belong on this talk page in the first place. I would also like to respond to your last comment about the Wiki existing for facts. While that does have some truth, the Wiki is not a place to list a random assortment of facts. There's a standard for what to include and not to include and quite frankly, this proposed trivia of yours doesn't meet that standard for the reasons I brought up earlier. Omega Tyrant 13:18, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

hahahaha listen to yourself,you make it sound as if gaming competitions were wars or something,yes it is cheap because it can turn around an entire match with one just ONE single move hence why its cheap,and the fact that its easy to pull off makes it even worse,hell at least the ice climbers infinites are extremely hard to pull off and easy to mess up,but theres nothing hard about chaingrabing and in the case of fox vs pikachu its downright broken,you can go an entire match dominating the other player with a 100% difference but if you get grabed just ONCE the entire match turns around and youre dead,sure its not impossible to win but when all it takes is one move to lose its damn well hard and close enough to impossible!its a damn game,friendly competition not a freakin war,its meant to be balanced and fools like you who deny the fact that its broken have no sense of competitive spirit whatsoever,those who compete,true competitors,they like winning because theyre better not because they have some ridiculous ace or unfair advantage to nab them a victory,but no you treat gaming like its some petty war and dont mind winning shamelessly,a good player shouldnt be complaining about the loss of chaingrabing,they should be skilled enough to get by without it,as for relevance,anything having to do with the effects of DR is of greater significance than all the "changes from melee to brawl" topics you find on any of the character pages since how a character has changed from one game to another has no significance whatsoever especially if the one looking up information started with brawl,so basically all those sections are a waste of space that have no effect on brawl and dont even inform you about the game youre playing,and so what if 1.0 is the standard that competitors play with,tournaments dont play with items but all the item information is still here,anything having to do with the subspace emissary,bosses,subspace enemies ect those have nothing to do with competitive brawl but all that info is here,so before you start bitching about whats significant and what isnt take a look at how many insignificant things are found on a wiki,the effects of damage ratio semm far more significant to me than a great deal of other information on hereGig (talk) 14:24, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

The changes from Melee to Brawl is far more important than miscellaneous information regarding obvious things that happen when you screw around with the damage ratio. You are entirely incorrect about a character's changes from Melee to Brawl having no impact. It shows how a character been buffed or nerfed, what is different about them, etc. I don't get how you say they don't inform you about the character in Brawl. Is it not informing to know that Jigglypuff's Rest has been weaken significantly and is no longer the terrifyingly powerful KO move it was in Melee? And can you explain how Jigglypuff having a severely nerfed Rest doesn't have an affect on its overall ability in Brawl in comparison to Melee? Your item argument isn't relevant at all. As 1.0 isn't just the ratio tournaments uses, it's the standard damage ratio of the game. All the information in this Wiki is based on the standard physics of Brawl, which in the case of damage ratio, is 1.0. I will also guarantee you that everyone here would agree that your miscellaneous information about obvious changes that occur with a change in damage ratio is far less important than information about the SSE, something that is one of Brawl's core features. So really, you never explained how your trivia about damage ratio was important, you just trashed other areas that are covered on the Wiki that have been deemed important enough to cover by the community on the Wiki. That does not make your proposed trivia look important enough to include at all. So please, look back at what I said, and bring up a point that actually refutes what I said. If you can not, then just drop this and accept that trivia about what happens with a different damage ratio doesn't belong as this whole thing is becoming a waste of time.

I'll remind you once more, your ideas of what makes competitive play best does not belong on this page or is relevant to what was being discussed at all. Keep ranting about it at your own risk. Also, in future posts, I'll ask once more, make a better effort at grammar in your posts. Proper capitalisation and punctuation shouldn't be beyond your grammatical abilities. People will be less willing to care about what you say if they can barely understand it. Omega Tyrant 15:31, 12 October 2010 (EDT)