Talk:Alternate costume (SSBU)/Archive 4

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Greninja's Alts may have origins

Greninja's pink costume resembles Lickitung. Greninja's black costume somewhat resembles a shiny Greninja, but with a yellow underside of the face and stomach, and an orange tongue. Greninja's green costume somewhat resembles Kecleon. Greninja's grey costume resembles the color palette of the Gameboy. Greninja's purple costume resembles Haunter. 75.70.247.220 20:22, 24 December 2018 (EST) Callistowo

Daisy's pink costume

So there's been a bit of back and forth on whether Daisy's pink costume resembles Peach, with the page currently including a comment that it does not. I think we should probably come to a consensus about this, since it hasn't been thoroughly discussed to my knowledge.

Here are the points for and against it being a reference:

For:

• Similar shade of pink
• Darker pink trim toward the bottom and around the waist
• Gold trim around the top layer

Against:

• Orange shoes (rather than pink)
• Purple gems (rather than blue)
• Fades into darker pink near the bottom

There's basically equal points for and against, but I'm inclined to believe it was intentionally meant to look like her. Rosalina's pink costume is said to resemble Peach despite having differently-colored shoes and gems, and Daisy's pink costume matches Peach closer than Rosalina's does. What do you think? DryKirby64 (talk) 22:21, 22 December 2018 (EST)

I honestly think Daisy's pinkish alt has nothing to do with Peach. Looking closely, the shade on Daisy's pink alt is a more reddish, more like salmon or light crimson, with dress accents that are clearly red. Peach's pink is a lot more bubblegum pink, with rose pink accents. I'd go as far to say that Daisy's "pink" alt would've been a red alt if it weren't for the other red one with black accents. Arend (talk) 15:25, 23 December 2018 (EST)

I cannot locate the specific citation, but in a Famitsu column Sakurai went into how he oversees the implementation of characters in Smash, and one of the important things he emphasized is that he does not want players to be confused with who they are playing on screen. He specifically talked about character silhouettes, with every character looking distinct, but I think this principle is reflected in the selection of colors as well. For playable characters that inherently look similar to one another, I think they avoid including alts that would make them look like one another. In Smash 64 and Melee, Mario and Luigi physically looked very similar and had comparable properties, and to impart as little confusion as possible, Mario lacks a Luigi-inspired* alt and Luigi lacks a Mario one. This type of implementation is reflected in every Smash Bros. game, including Ultimate. For example, if they weren’t worried about imparting confusion, they likely would not have removed Peach's Daisy alt or Samus' Dark Samus alt. They likely would not have removed Marth's Roy alt or changed Fox’s Wolf alt.** The only exception I can think of is with Pit in Ultimate, in which the black wings of his “fallen angel” costume were restored and make him look more similar to Dark Pit as a consequence. I don’t know why they did this – in Smash 4 they gave Pit white wings for the alt to avoid confusion – but that is the only outlier I can think of among ~500 costumes.

For this particular case, I think people will ultimately go back-and-forth with what they consider is a “similar” shade of pink. Personally, I do not think the shade is very comparable to Peach and it is the most critical component for the two to have in common if the developers wanted to be invocative of her. If they wanted the alt to look like her, why would they have changed the shade at all? Why didn’t they give her the same gems? I think it’s because they specifically did not want the alt to look like Peach and I would not suggest that it is in the article.

Nearly all of Rosalina's alts resemble Peach's, and certainly intentional, as Smash 4 was the first game where costumes were not restricted by team battles and they likely wanted to encourage situations where people on the same team chose the same color for certain battles. DK and Diddy have similar color schemes between them, for example. But even then, they avoided giving similar-looking characters alts that resembled one another. For the pink alt of Rosalina, I don't think confusing her for Peach is as big of a problem as it would be for Daisy because: A.) Rosalina is much bigger than Peach, whereas Daisy is almost the exact same size as her. B.) Rosalina is accompanied by Luma: an omnipresent, monotone, and vibrant blotch on the screen with nothing comparable in Peach’s design. C.) They do not any moves or animations in common.

(*)To be clear, I know Mario’s alt is attributed to Luigi’s appearance in the arcade Mario Bros., but that does not look like Luigi’s current default appearance in Smash Bros.

(**)Despite what the article currently implies, I would not say Fox’s eighth color “resembles Wolf” because – to me – it looks like the developers changes the alt specifically to look less like Wolf.Nintendo101 (talk) 12:27, 24 December 2018 (EST)

Mario and Luigi both have Waluigi alts too. VoqéoT 12:38, 24 December 2018 (EST)

Yeah, but they were both introduced in Brawl and Smash 4, when the characters were better differentiated physically and mechanically. Nintendo101 (talk) 12:46, 24 December 2018 (EST)

Dark Samus's Black costume

I believe there is an inconsistency with the current "Origin" of Dark Samus's Black Alt Color. Currently, the description of the Black suit is listed as "Resembles Orange Phazon from Metroid Prime." Although the original editor of this fact may have been on to something, they needed to go just a little bit further into the Lore of Metroid Prime to find the real origin.

Dark Samus's Black Alt color is actually a reference to the creature, Metroid Prime. Metroid Prime was the final boss in "Metroid Prime" for the Nintendo Game Cube. During Phase One, Samus would fight Metroid Prime in its spider-like physical form. This form was Black with Orange accent coloring. The accent coloring would change during the fight to Red, White, Purple, and back to Orange, depending on what type of weapon Metroid Prime was using during the Phase One fight. The Black and Orange color exactly matches Dark Samus's Alt color. That and the fact that Dark Samus was born from a fusion of Metroid Prime, Phazon energy and Samus's DNA along with her Phazon Armor, as shown in the Secret 100% ending cinematic for Metroid Prime. Please see the following link for reference information regarding this fact. https://www.metroidwiki.org/wiki/Metroid_Prime_(specimen)

(don't forget to sign your comments on talk pages, with --~~~~)

I presume you're referring to these two pieces of artwork? If so, then yes: I suppose I can see the similarity there. It's also worth noting that the concept art cited as inspiration for Dark Samus's silver costume happens to use the same (or a very similar) color scheme as another piece of Metroid Prime concept art, which would support your arguemnt.

However, I will point out that this specific black/orange color palette is never actually used in-game. The Metroid Prime's "default" color scheme appears to be black/silver, as seen in the Metroid Prime's intro cutscene and in its Brawl trophy. During the battle, it switches to yellow, white, red, and/or purple, but never orange. As I said, we are already citing concept art for the silver costume, so it doesn't hurt your argument too much, but it does mean that this color scheme (existing only in artwork, not in-game) is a little more obscure than the in-game Orange Phazon. --PeabodySam (talk) 11:30, 24 December 2018 (EST)