Forum:P+ content

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This discussion is in regards to a proposed change on SmashWiki. The discussion must first meet with a consensus before it is implemented.

Following the development of Project+, we find ourselves in need of answers for how we should handle it. There are a number of different methods we could go about doing this, and it is the aim of this proposal to cover all of it.

P+ is the spiritual successor to PM, though unofficially it seems to aim to finish what the PMDT couldn't. It's the result of years of PM’s modding and competitive scenes. P+ was made by community leaders, top players, and established modders. It features updated balance, stages, songs, and costumes, and it's built on top of the Legacy TE version of PM. You can find out more at the Project Plus homepage.

Most of the competitive scene has been running P+ in competitive events since its initial release early last year. Since then every major region including US, Canada, South America, and Japan have switched to P+. Though there are a few notable exceptions to this: in some parts of Europe like the Netherlands there are thriving PM 3.6 scenes. However for just about everywhere else, P+ is the tournament standard. P+ 1.05b has had 3 majors run on it The Encore, Blacklisted, and Low Tier City 7. Every major going forward would run version 2.0, though Coronavirus has postponed it. A 200 man netplay bracket featuring most of pmrank and several top 20 melee players had already happened. Since 2.0s initial release its gotten play and video coverage from players like Leffen, Mang0, Plup, PPMD, Zain, Junebug and more. For the majority of the world its the final version of PM.
(summary graciously provided by Che-N-Grab of the P+ community)

This discussion will last for a decent amount of time in order to give everyone a voice here, this is to appeal to the Smash community at large, not just SmashWiki editors or the Project M/+ community. So to begin:

Part 1: Do we cover this at all?

If this section gets support, the following will occur:

• Project + will get its own article (the PM article will be untouched, aside from mentioning P+)
• An article icon will be added for use on event articles (and P+ specific articles should that be decided on) only.

If you oppose this part of the proposal, please do not vote on the rest of it.

Support

1. This allows for P+ events to be noted separately from PM events (which will become more relevant over time as the P+ meta evolves and becomes even more different from the PM meta), and also allows us to keep better track of the popularity of P+ in case it ever reaches high enough levels that we need to increase the amount of content included. DekZek 19:11, April 9, 2020 (EDT)
2. I've already seen several tournaments transition to P+, and I believe it's inevitable that other tournaments will follow suit, and sooner or later most Project M majors would be using it. Looking ahead, Smash 'N' Splash 6 is using Project+ (labeled as Project M+), and said tournament series generally holds the largest PM tournaments of all time (SnS 5 having almost 400 entrants), so we're gonna have to add some form of P+ sooner or later. CookiesCreme 19:14, April 9, 2020 (EDT)

Oppose

1. This whole situation is getting way out of hand. As the SmashWiki, our job is to report on the Super Smash Bros. series, not an assortment of mods that people have made on it. I have no idea why Serpent King decided to open this forum before I opened the one about whether we should be keeping all of the character articles for PM in the first place, but there you go. This is not the modding Wiki, and we shouldn't have so much content on mods of the games. Alex the Weeb 19:11, April 9, 2020 (EDT)

Neutral

1. ...

Comments

For those who are against covering PM/P+ on the wiki because it's a mod, consider this point: the largest PM tournament has more entrants than both the largest Brawl and Smash 64 tournaments, and there are still tournaments that clock over 300 entrants. No other mod has had such a big impact on competitive play, and so I strongly believe PM should be an exception to the mod rule. CookiesCreme 19:16, April 9, 2020 (EDT)

"the largest PM tournament has more entrants than both the largest Brawl and Smash 64 tournaments", entirely irrelevant. There are a lot of games which have had bigger tournaments than games in the Smash series, but we don't cover them because, like Project M, they are not a part of the Smash series, and therefore shouldn't be covered here. Alex the Weeb 19:21, April 9, 2020 (EDT)

...that makes no sense. You're saying we shouldn't include Mortal Kombat tournaments (for example) because they aren't smash, and so we shouldn't cover PM/+ for the same reason? That's an absurd argument. SerpentKing 19:23, April 9, 2020 (EDT)

Part 2: What do we do about the character articles

There are a few ways we could do this. Please pick one of the following options, please do not vote oppose on any of these. If you have an idea for an alternate option, please discuss it in comments.

Make sections for Project + on the existing Project M character articles

We would also make an article for Knuckles. This also raises the question "do we rename the articles to reflect P+" (In other words, Mario (PM) or Mario (P+)). Please include incite on this if you vote here.

1. ...

Make separate articles for Project + characters

1. ...

Nothing, do not cover Project + characters

1. I would like to clarify that I only believe this as a temporary measure. For now, P+ does not have enough popularity to warrant pages for every P+ character. And as per my concerns earlier about distinguishing PM and P+, making P+ an addendum onto the PM character pages will cause additional problems. If/when P+ reaches the same levels of popularity as PM, then we can reconsider, but for now this is the best option. I would also be open to a condensed page in the style of User:Miles of SmashWiki/PM condensing but with changelogs also noted as an intermediate measure, but that is outside the scope of this proposal. DekZek 19:16, April 9, 2020 (EDT)

Comments

Will a Knuckles icon be added anyways? CookiesCreme 19:19, April 9, 2020 (EDT)

If we decide to cover the project, yes at least for use in tournament results. SerpentKing 19:20, April 9, 2020 (EDT)