Editing Yoshi (SSB4)

From SmashWiki, the Super Smash Bros. wiki
Jump to navigationJump to search
Warning You aren't logged in. While it's not a requirement to create an account, doing so makes it a lot easier to keep track of your edits and a lot harder to confuse you with someone else. If you edit without being logged in, your IP address will be recorded in the page's edit history.

The edit can be undone. Please check the comparison below to verify that this is what you want to do, and then publish the changes below to finish undoing the edit.

Latest revision Your text
Line 47: Line 47:


==Changes from ''[[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''==
==Changes from ''[[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''==
Yoshi has been [[buff]]ed overall in the transition from ''Brawl'' to ''SSB4''. Many of his attacks have more speed, are stronger and have more utility, while the issues that plagued him in ''Brawl'' were fixed: thanks to the changes to [[hitstun canceling]], his combo game has improved to the point of granting him new KO set-up, and his smash attacks while dealing less damage are  stronger. Yoshi's biggest buff however was to his shield game which was previously the main issue that plagued him. Yoshi's shield [[grab]] is faster and for the first time since ''Smash 64'', Yoshi can jump [[out of shield]]. The other issues which plagued his shield in Brawl such as his longer shield drop, his inability to [[powershield canceling|powershield cancel]] and his inability to throw items out of a [[roll]] were all fixed, making his out of shield game much better; no longer being the worst in the game by a huge margin (although his out of shield game is still rather poor). The only new disadvantages Yoshi has while in shield is that he cannot [[shield platform drop]] and his [[spot dodge]] is significantly worse (going from one of the best to being fairly mediocre) but the buffs to his shields far outweigh these nerfs.
Yoshi has been [[buff]]ed overall in the transition from ''Brawl'' to ''SSB4''. Many of his attacks have more speed, are stronger and have more utility, while the issues that plagued him in ''Brawl'' were fixed: thanks to the changes to [[hitstun canceling]], his combo game has improved to the point of granting him new KO set-ups, and his smash attacks are stronger overall despite dealing less damage. As Yoshi now stands upright more consistently, he doesn's lean forward as much as before, making his [[hurtbox]] narrower and thus less vulnerable to [[spacing]], which was a glaring issue for him because of the hurtbox on his large nose. Yoshi's biggest buff however was to his shield, which was previously the main issue that plagued him in ''Brawl'''s metagame due to having the worst shield game in the cast. Yoshi's shield [[grab]] is faster, his shield drop has been sped up to match with everyone else, and for the first time since ''Smash 64'', he can jump [[out of shield]] once again. The other issues which plagued his shield in Brawl such as his longer shield drop, his inability to [[powershield canceling|powershield cancel]] and his inability to throw items out of a [[roll]] were all fixed, making his out of shield game much better; no longer being the worst in the game by a huge margin (although his out of shield game is still rather poor). The only new disadvantages Yoshi has while in shield is that he cannot [[shield platform drop]] and his [[spot dodge]] is significantly worse (going from one of the best to being fairly mediocre) but the buffs to his shields far outweigh these nerfs.


However, Yoshi has also received some noticeable [[nerf]]s. Yoshi's grab game was made even worse. He can no longer [[air release]] his opponents while he is pummeling them and the general changes to air releases hinder him more than almost any other character as he has now lost all of the followups he had out of an air release and the removal of [[chain grab]]bing further exacerbates this issue. His previously excellent pivot grab is also much laggier making it far less spammable and much easier to punish. His damage output is also lower and his forward and up tilts are laggier making them worse spacing tools and his down tilt is much weaker. His aerial game has also seen various downgrades. His air speed is lower, neutral aerial lingers for a shorter amount of time, forward aerial is weaker and has a stricter [[auto-cancel]] window, up aerial is weaker and down aerial has less edgeguarding potential. Back aerial while connecting more reliably and having a stronger final hit, it only has three hits making it weaker and it has drastically reduced combo potential as the first two hits have higher knockback and altered angles and the move has much higher ending and landing lag while also being unable to auto-cancel in a short hop which also greatly hinders its safety and spacing potential. The eggs from his [[Egg Throw]] also deal less damage and Yoshi can no longer edge cancel Egg Toss hindering its camping potential when used at the ledge although Egg Throw is faster.
However, Yoshi has also received some noticeable [[nerf]]s. Yoshi's grab game was made even worse. He can no longer [[air release]] his opponents while he is pummeling them and the general changes to air releases hinder him more than almost any other character as he has now lost all of the followups he had out of an air release and the removal of [[chain grab]]bing further exacerbates this issue. His previously excellent pivot grab is also much laggier making it far less spammable and much easier to punish. His damage output is also lower and his forward and up tilts are laggier making them worse spacing tools and his down tilt is much weaker. His aerial game has also seen various downgrades. His air speed is lower, neutral aerial lingers for a shorter amount of time, forward aerial is weaker and has a stricter [[auto-cancel]] window, up aerial is weaker and down aerial has less edgeguarding potential. Back aerial, while connecting more reliably and having a stronger final hit, has lost one of its looping hit, hitting three times instead of four and reducing its damage output, it has drastically reduced combo potential as the first two hits have higher knockback and altered angles and the move has much higher end lag and landing lag while also no longer auto-canceling in a short hop, which also greatly hinders its safety and spacing potential. The eggs from his [[Egg Throw]] also deal less damage and Yoshi can no longer edge cancel Egg Toss, hindering its camping potential when used at the ledge, although Egg Throw is faster.


Overall, Yoshi's main issue from ''Brawl'' was fixed resulting in him being stronger overall especially when relative to the cast although the general changes to ''Smash 4''{{'}}s mechanics do not benefit him as much as other characters. While Yoshi was initially regarded highly when ''Smash 4'' was first released, his perception overtime decreased as many characters were buffed significantly more than he was and the inclusion of {{SSB4|Bayonetta}} and {{SSB4|Cloud}} proved to be problematic for him. When combined with his overall low representation, he is now generally agreed upon to be a mid tier character.
Overall, Yoshi's main issue from ''Brawl'' was fixed resulting in him being stronger overall especially when relative to the cast although the general changes to ''Smash 4''{{'}}s mechanics do not benefit him as much as other characters. While Yoshi was initially regarded highly when ''Smash 4'' was first released, his perception overtime decreased as many characters were buffed significantly more than he was and the inclusion of {{SSB4|Bayonetta}} and {{SSB4|Cloud}} proved to be problematic for him. When combined with his overall low representation, he is now generally agreed upon to be a mid tier character.
Line 65: Line 65:
**As a sidenote, Yoshi retains his idle pose from ''Brawl'' while holding a small [[item]].
**As a sidenote, Yoshi retains his idle pose from ''Brawl'' while holding a small [[item]].
*{{change|Yoshi's upright posture has translated into various moves in his moveset, be it through a tweaked animation or a completely new move.}}
*{{change|Yoshi's upright posture has translated into various moves in his moveset, be it through a tweaked animation or a completely new move.}}
**{{buff|Due being more consistently upright, Yoshi also doesn't lean forward as much, making his hurtboxes narrower. This makes him less vulnerable to [[spacing]].}}
*{{buff|Yoshi [[dash]]es faster (1.68 → 1.86).}}
*{{buff|Yoshi [[dash]]es faster (1.68 → 1.86).}}
*{{nerf|Yoshi's [[air speed]] is slower (1.316 → 1.28) although it is still the fastest in the game (excluding [[Giga Mac]], [[Wario-Man]] and lightest {{SSB4|Mii Brawler}}).}}
*{{nerf|Yoshi's [[air speed]] is slower (1.316 → 1.28) although it is still the fastest in the game (excluding [[Giga Mac]], [[Wario-Man]] and lightest {{SSB4|Mii Brawler}}).}}
Line 101: Line 102:
**{{nerf|The first hit has a shorter duration (frames 3-5 → 3-4).}}
**{{nerf|The first hit has a shorter duration (frames 3-5 → 3-4).}}
**{{nerf|The first hit's near hitbox has been moved further outwards, reducing its range inside Yoshi.}}
**{{nerf|The first hit's near hitbox has been moved further outwards, reducing its range inside Yoshi.}}
**{{change|Yoshi now moves forwards when performing the second hit however, Yoshi does not stretch hit foot out as far. This gives it a similar amount of range overall.}}
**{{change|Yoshi now moves forwards when performing the second hit, but he does not stretch his foot out as far. This gives it a similar amount of range overall.}}
**{{nerf|The second hit deals less damage (6% → 4%) and knockback (25 (base), 100 (scaling) → 56/70).}}
**{{nerf|The second hit deals less damage (6% → 4%) and knockback (25 (base), 100 (scaling) → 56/70).}}
***{{buff|However, the move is still capable of leading into followups at lower percents due to Yoshi's new dash attack.}}
***{{buff|However, the move is still capable of leading into followups at lower percents due to Yoshi's new dash attack and makes it safer on hit at low percents.}}
**{{nerf|On the second hit's second active frame, Yoshi now moves his foot slightly backwards rather than moving it backwards and upwards, reducing its vertical range.}}
**{{nerf|On the second hit's second active frame, Yoshi now moves his foot slightly backwards rather than moving it backwards and upwards, reducing its vertical range.}}
***{{buff|However, this also gives it more consistent horizontal range.}}
***{{buff|However, this also gives it more consistent horizontal range.}}
Line 129: Line 130:
**{{nerf|Down tilt has smaller hitboxes (5u/5u/4u → 3.5u/3.5u/3u). This gives the move less vertical range as well as less range inside of Yoshi.}}
**{{nerf|Down tilt has smaller hitboxes (5u/5u/4u → 3.5u/3.5u/3u). This gives the move less vertical range as well as less range inside of Yoshi.}}
*[[Dash attack]]:
*[[Dash attack]]:
**{{change|Yoshi has a new dash attack, a side kick.}}
**{{change|Yoshi has a new dash attack, a jumping side kick.}}
**{{buff|Dash attack covers much more space in a shorter period of time, going from covering just over 25% of [[Final Destination]] to now covering just over 40% of Final Destination. This not only makes it a much better burst movement option as well as greatly improving its approach and cross-up potential but this also makes it a much better combo extender.}}
**{{buff|Dash attack covers much more space in a shorter period of time, going from covering just over 25% of [[Final Destination]] to now covering just over 40% of Final Destination. This not only makes it a much better burst movement option as well as greatly improving its approach and cross-up potential but this also makes it a much better combo extender.}}
**{{buff|The clean hit's far hitbox has been positioned further away from Yoshi (z offset: 6 → 9), improving its range.}}
**{{buff|The clean hit's far hitbox has been positioned further away from Yoshi (z offset: 6 → 9), improving its range.}}
Line 157: Line 158:
**{{buff|Up smash has more vertical range and downwards range in front of Yoshi due to its new animation.}}
**{{buff|Up smash has more vertical range and downwards range in front of Yoshi due to its new animation.}}
**{{nerf|Up smash has more ending lag (FAF 43 → 47).}}
**{{nerf|Up smash has more ending lag (FAF 43 → 47).}}
**{{nerf|Up smash deals less damage (16% → 14% ).}}
**{{nerf|Up smash deals less damage (16% → 14%).}}
**{{nerf|Up smash now has a late hit for the second half of its duration which deals much less damage (16% → 12%), hindering its KO potential despite its higher knockback.}}
**{{nerf|Up smash now has a late hit for the second half of its duration which deals much less damage (16% → 12%), hindering its KO potential despite its higher knockback.}}
**{{nerf|Up smash has smaller hitboxes (6u/5u → 5u/3.5u). When combined with its new animation, this gives the move less horizontal range both in front of and especially behind Yoshi.}}
**{{nerf|Up smash has smaller hitboxes (6u/5u → 5u/3.5u). When combined with its new animation, this gives the move less horizontal range both in front of and especially behind Yoshi.}}
**{{nerf|Up smash has much less downwards range behind Yoshi, with the move now failing to hit smaller characters if they are behind Yoshi.}}
**{{nerf|Up smash has much less downwards range behind Yoshi, with the move now failing to hit smaller characters if they are behind him.}}
**{{nerf|Up smash grants less intangibility (frames 11-16 → 11-13).}}
**{{nerf|Up smash grants less intangibility (frames 11-16 → 11-13), making it unable to protect Yoshi from behind.}}
***{{nerf|Additionally, since Yoshi's right foot is now intangible rather than his large head, this makes the move easier to intercept.}}
***{{nerf|Additionally, since Yoshi's right foot is now intangible rather than his large head, this makes the move easier to intercept.}}
**{{nerf|Up smash covers less distance out of an initial dash unless Yoshi jump cancels the up smash, making it harder to use as an approach tool.}}
**{{nerf|Up smash covers less distance out of an initial dash unless Yoshi jump cancels the up smash, making it harder to use as an approach tool.}}
Line 169: Line 170:
**{{nerf|Down smash deals less damage (14% (front)/13% (back) → 12% (mid tail)/10% (body/far tail)).}}
**{{nerf|Down smash deals less damage (14% (front)/13% (back) → 12% (mid tail)/10% (body/far tail)).}}
**{{nerf|Down smash has more startup lag (frame 6 → 7).}}
**{{nerf|Down smash has more startup lag (frame 6 → 7).}}
***{{buff|However, its total duration was unchanged, slightly decreasing its ending lag.}}
***{{buff|However, its total duration was unchanged, decreasing its ending lag by one frame.}}
**{{nerf|Down smash has smaller htiboxes which are now extended (6u/5u/4.3u → 3.5u/2u), reducing its range.}}
**{{nerf|Down smash has smaller hitboxes which are now extended (6u/5u/4.3u → 3.5u/2u), reducing its range.}}
**{{nerf|The sourspot now uses an extended hitbox which stretches from Yoshi's body to the end of his tail. This means that the sourspot can now connect if the opponent is inside of Yoshi, as well as still connecting if they are far away from Yoshi.}}
**{{nerf|The sourspot now uses an extended hitbox which stretches from Yoshi's body to the end of his tail. This means that the sourspot can now connect if the opponent is inside of Yoshi, as well as still connecting if they are far away from Yoshi.}}


Line 200: Line 201:
**{{nerf|The back and head hitboxes are slightly smaller (2.5u/5.5u → 2.4u/5.3u).}}
**{{nerf|The back and head hitboxes are slightly smaller (2.5u/5.5u → 2.4u/5.3u).}}
*[[Back aerial]]:
*[[Back aerial]]:
**{{change|Yoshi has an altered back aerial where he now only performs three tail swipes instead of four.}}
**{{change|Back aerial hits three times instead of four.}}
**{{buff|The first two hits now use an [[Autolink angle]] against aerial opponents (60° → 366°) and they deal more knockback (10/20 (base), 100 (scaling) → 30/200), making the move connect more reliably against aerial opponents, especially if Yoshi is falling.}}
**{{buff|The first two hits now use an [[Autolink angle]] against aerial opponents (60° → 366°) and they deal more knockback (10/20 (base), 100 (scaling) → 30/200), making the move connect more reliably against aerial opponents, especially if Yoshi is falling.}}
**{{buff|The first two hits have a lower SDI multiplier (1.5x (hit 1)/1.3x (hit 2) → 0.5x). When combined with the move's altered angle against aerial opponents, this makes the move much more difficult to escape from.}}
**{{buff|The first two hits have a lower SDI multiplier (1.5x (hit 1)/1.3x (hit 2) → 0.5x). When combined with the move's altered angle against aerial opponents, this makes the move much more difficult to escape from.}}
Line 227: Line 228:
**{{buff|Down aerial now has a landing hitbox, which deals 1% and low horizontal set knockback. This makes down aerial safer on hit at lower percents, as well as making it safer on shield.}}
**{{buff|Down aerial now has a landing hitbox, which deals 1% and low horizontal set knockback. This makes down aerial safer on hit at lower percents, as well as making it safer on shield.}}
***{{nerf|However, this also hinders its safety on hit at higher percents, especially for hits 8-12.}}
***{{nerf|However, this also hinders its safety on hit at higher percents, especially for hits 8-12.}}
**{{buff|The weakening of SDI makes down aerial more difficult to escape from despite its higher SDI multiplier on its first twelve hits (1.4x → 1.5x).}}
**{{buff|The weakening of SDI makes down aerial more difficult to escape from despite its slightly higher SDI multiplier on its first twelve hits (1.4x → 1.5x).}}
**{{buff|The universal increase to shield damage significantly improves down aerial's shield pressuring potential.}}
**{{buff|The universal increase to shield damage significantly improves down aerial's shield pressuring potential.}}
**{{nerf|Down aerial has more ending lag (FAF 53 → 57) and a longer animation (59 frames → 65).}}
**{{nerf|Down aerial has more ending lag (FAF 53 → 57) and a longer animation (59 frames → 65).}}
Line 307: Line 308:
*[[Yoshi Bomb]]:
*[[Yoshi Bomb]]:
**{{buff|Grounded Yoshi Bomb's fall has higher knockback scaling (70 → 72), slightly improving its KO potential.}}
**{{buff|Grounded Yoshi Bomb's fall has higher knockback scaling (70 → 72), slightly improving its KO potential.}}
**{{buff|The aerial version deals more kncokback (55 (base), 70 (scaling) → 70/68), improving its KO potential.}}
**{{buff|The aerial version deals more knockback (55 (base), 70 (scaling) → 70/68), improving its KO potential.}}
**{{buff|The changes to hitstun canceling and DI improves the grounded version's first hit's ability to lead into the second hit, with lighter characters no longer being capable of air dodging to avoid the second hit.}}
**{{buff|The changes to hitstun canceling and DI improves the grounded version's first hit's ability to lead into the second hit, with lighter characters no longer being capable of air dodging to avoid the second hit.}}
***{{nerf|However, heavier characters are now capable of DIing the first hit if Yoshi is at higher percents due to the introduction of [[rage]].}}
***{{nerf|However, heavier characters are now capable of DIing the first hit if Yoshi is at higher percents due to the introduction of [[rage]].}}

Please note that all contributions to SmashWiki are considered to be released under the Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license (see SmashWiki:Copyrights for details). Your changes will be visible immediately. Please enter a summary of your changes above.

Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!

Cancel Editing help (opens in new window)

Templates used on this page:

This page is a member of 1 meta category: