User talk:Alex the weeb/Slowdown

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The only mention of this mechanic is on the article Slow motion, however said article conflates gameplay speed (the global reduction or increasing of the rate at which the game plays, including framerate and thus calculation rate), with slowdown, the phenomenon applied by certain moves, items, assist trophies etc. Both features function very differently, with the former intended to replicate full-speed gameplay, and the latter directly influencing interactions, hitboxes and outcomes. After recently learning of a third glitch involving slowdown, and one which can actually affect competitive play, my interest in this mechanic has increased significantly, and I now believe it deserves its own article, and should not be lumped in with gameplay speed, which itself probably isn't notable enough to get its own article, as its largely just a visual thing, but could be given its own article if deemed necessary which can remain covered on the "Slow motion" article which can be given its own article, including fast motion. A concept article for this can be found here.

Please give your thoughts on making this its own article, and feel free to contribute to this article. Please note however that the following are NOT examples of slowdown, but gameplay speed reduction: Dialga's Roar of Time, KOs in Stamina Mode and Slow mode in Special Smash and reduced speed in Training Mode. It's currently unclear if Special Zoom uses slowdown or reduces gameplay speed.

Alex the Weeb 10:13, September 2, 2020 (EDT)

Edit: I have also noticed that there is a flag in the game's attack scripts for slow motion as well, which for example is used in Hero's Kamikazee, and as you would expect, it's a different flag to the one used for slowdown, owing to the fact that as mentioned above, they are separate mechanics. Alex the Weeb 18:54, September 4, 2020 (EDT)

Support[edit]

  1. Support. There's definitely something different about the two. At minimum I think the "Slow motion" article should be more clear on which is which. --CanvasK (talk) 17:50, September 4, 2020 (EDT)
  2. Support. Aidan, the Rurouni 16:41, September 21, 2020 (EDT)

Oppose[edit]

Neutral[edit]

Comments[edit]

I'm having a hard time understanding the distinction. Looking at what is listed on the page, it seems that "slow motion" affects the whole stage and all fighters, and "slowdown" is either a region or only affects certain fighters (ie opponents). Is there something I'm missing? --CanvasK (talk) 08:04, September 4, 2020 (EDT)

Slow motion is a reduction in the gameplay speed. This includes framerate (how frequently calculations are made, and fighter positions, hitboxes, hurtboxes etc are updated) being reduced. Slowdown reduces the speed of the animations and movement of some or all fighters, but doesn't reduce the framerate. The only reason why you can't tell that framerate is reduced in slow motion is because the game interpolates animations anyway. Another way of thinking about it is slow motion slows the game down, and slowdown slows the fighters down. Since the 2 are mechanically very different, and slowdown creates some very unusual interactions which can be relevant in competitive play, it makes no sense to lump it in with slow motion. Alex the Weeb 08:10, September 4, 2020 (EDT)
(edit conflict)So slow motion affects gameplay speed and slowdown affects the fighters frame speed multiplier or something like that? Is there a way I can experience the difference? Swirlix has a slowdown of 1/4th (tested to wrap my head around this), would a hitbox connect differently than if I set Training Mode to 1/4th? Or is knockback the only thing as outlined on the page? --CanvasK (talk) 08:21, September 4, 2020 (EDT)
Yes, hitboxes would behave differently. Try using Link's forward tilt against opponents on platforms with different spacings. While the blindspot issue isn't as bad in Ultimate as it was in 4, his Ftilt will still reach slightly further diagonally when affected by Swirlix or the Timer, but this won't be the case if you instead set the game speed to 1/4x. Also try using Knee Smash on an opponent under the effects of slowdown, you will see they take less hitlag than Falcon, but setting the game speed to 1/4x doesn't have this effect. Alex the Weeb 08:24, September 4, 2020 (EDT)
If you would like further examples, I can provide them as well. A particularly easy difference to see is with Bowser Jr.'s down throw. In Training Mode 1v1, his down throw deals 14.8% damage. This is the case no matter what speed you set the gameplay to. However, apply slowdown to Jr. using Timer, Swirlix etc. and you'll find it does 17.7% damage. This is the result of another quirk of slowdown which doesn't apply to slow motion, as slow motion functions entirely differently. Alex the Weeb 08:34, September 4, 2020 (EDT)
I wasn't able to get any hits with Link's f-tilt under any conditions, but I was able to get results for Falcon and Jr. I also tested in a standard match with 3 players to see if it was just an interaction between a slow vs normal. As long as the attacker was under "slowdown", the weird stuff happened. I did notice that when the Timer affected all fighters it instead acted like "slow motion", even if 1/4th speed was already enabled. --CanvasK (talk) 17:50, September 4, 2020 (EDT)
Yes, that is how the all affected Timer works. If you want a consistent setup for seeing the effect of slowdown on hitbox reach, have Link stand on the edge of Battlefield, and Mega Man on the outer edge of the lower platform by that edge. Use Link's up tilt, and it will miss regardless of if you have the speed set to 1x or 1/4. However, when Link is under the effect of Timer, it will just barely connect. You can see here that there is a small blindspot on the sword during that part of the swing that the hitbox interpolation can't make up for (these mini blind spots are very common), but the extra frames added to the animation by slowdown allows for that area to be covered. This can only happen with slowdown, not slow motion. Alex the Weeb 18:54, September 4, 2020 (EDT)

Bumping. Alex the Weeb 16:10, September 21, 2020 (EDT)