Smasher talk:Oreishi

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The notability guidelines say a smasher must place highly, have national recognition, or not be an exclusively online player. Oreishi doesn't place highly as his data profile depicts him struggling to get top 8 at locals (in fact, he only top 8'd once). Being PR'ed in Hong Kong means very little if one doesn't have good results or specific innovations to smash. Other Wii Fit players generally have strong results to name in the wiki. Sinogara, for instance, has placed 17th at Stunfest, a B-tier PGR tournament. Even Sogoodpop, a wifi warrior, has won a few locals offline in a tough region (SoCal).

Oreishi doesn't have any notable distinctions to call for his own. I don't think he should deserve a page at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MemeDedede (talk • contribs) 21:33, December 22, 2020 (EST)

I won't vote one way or the other but a couple things. I believe your using the notable player section guidelines (for character pages) instead of notable smasher guidelines. That section just requires them to be regionally recognized and preferably PR'D. The anniversary cup would probably be Oreishis most notable performance. But I can definitely understand still considering him not notable enough for a page Wiifitkid (talk) 21:46, December 22, 2020 (EST)

Oppose. I do agree about the PR thing since Hong Kong's Braacket PRs are rather messy, but Oreishi still has some decent results such as 3rd at HKSBC Monthly Tournament for February and HKSBC Newcomer Invitational Cup as well as 9th at HKSBC 2nd Anniversary CUP. If Lunarai and NPM's pages got a pass, this should be fine as well.

As for the guidelines, the bare minimum for Smasher pages is being ranked on any PR except for certain circumstances. Exclusively online players can also have a page as long as they have placed highly in multiple large Wi-Fi tournaments (usually WWR B-tier or over). It's why players like Peckham and Midnight have pages. CookiesCreme 21:51, December 22, 2020 (EST)

I have to disagree: Many, many other smashers achieve 3rd in these sort of monthlies. 3/36 is rather mediocre in a small region. These sorts of results are easy achieve for international players, and if this were the case, the notability guidelines would be worthless. For example: A dedede player named kekwel achieved 3rd/48 and 3rd/41 in France, and has actually participated in major events. Most importantly, these tournaments are more competitive than the ones in Hong Kong: https://smashdata.gg/smash/ultimate/player/Kekwel?id=404715

I feel NPM’s contributions simply aren’t strong enough to warrant his own page, especially he didn’t start up a smash scene like qwertz143’s contributions did in India. Being an editor on Smashwiki doesn’t add up to anything, either.

As far as i know, Lunarai, NPM, and Oreshi are not recognized very well outside their region. Only XIFL and maybe Bamboozler can be considered to be known. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MemeDedede (talk • contribs) 23:10, December 22, 2020 (EST)

First of all, please remember to sign your comments. Now let me get to why your arguments are invalid. Small regions are exceptions from the notability guidline. You are trying to show that it is common to get these type of tournaments from other region. Yes thats true because France is far stronger than us. Arguably we might be the weakest Asian country out there, if we have to compare with others, then Vietnam might be similar to us in terms of how big the region is but I am not entirely sure. XIFL was sponsored to be able to travel to other Asian tourneys. He was by far our strongest player ever before he resides in Canada and thus got the sponsor and recognition in various Asian tournaments. Oreishi, has improved so much that I have to consider him a top player in HK. He has been performing well since he finds a suitable character and thus getting his high placements. It is hard for our small scene to travel that much due to the fact that most of the scene consists of teenagers, school kids.

I disagree that you said getting 3rd is mediocre in a smaller region. It is actually a very solid placement inside of HK imo. The thing is we are way smaller than France. There countries are able to get much larger tourneys plus most of our top players won't be able to travel. France is obviously more competitive because they are able to get tier-sized tournaments. It just isn't a fair comparation. I don't think France is a weak region by any means. Btw, his name is "Bomboozler". Some of you might already knew that my relation with HK has become weirder gradually, the PR thing is unfortunately out of my realm of ability. NPM Morr!? 01:01, December 23, 2020 (EST)

Kekewl is actually notable enough for a a page imho. He was ranked 9th in Lorraine during season 1 and placed 13th at the Sprin Games Wiifitkid (talk) 08:40, December 23, 2020 (EST)

See, by this logic I can make an excuse for a smaller region in any other country. Let’s say Bob242 is #1 in his region/club and consistently places top 8 in his locals. The “community” consists of 30 players, and since the competition isn’t strong enough to do well, Bob is a top player by his region/club. Would this warrant a page for a “strong” player in his region? No, since competitions being so small that you might just throw away the notablility guidelines. 3rd at a local isn’t a strong placement to other locals. In a local scene, that’s something to be proud of.

What I’m trying to say is that if everyone could be nominated get these kinds of results, then being the best at something would be entirely devalued. Notability wouldn’t mean anything.

I also don’t understand well what your contributions are to the HK community. I know you edit wikis, but what else do you do? Do you direct tournaments, commentate? MemeDedede (talk) 10:49, December 23, 2020 (EST)

Wouldn't that be an argument for changing notability guidelines. The only requirement is to be have achieve regional recognition? Wiifitkid (talk) 11:39, December 23, 2020 (EST)

The analogy you made isn't really the same as the current situation. Your example is comparing a smaller part of a country to an autonomous region that works independently from its main country (which is why we use HK's flag instead of China's flag), therefore its PR would be considered a national ranking. No matter how small the region is, if it's a national ranking, it can fall under notability standards. That's why we have pages for Saigon and Russia's PRs despite them being very small, not to mention the Vietnamese Smasher pages. In your example, Bob wouldn't be notable since he's not on the national ranking, but if Bob is ranked 1st in a country like Afghanistan, he's considered notable.

This does all come down to HK's PR, which I believe deserves a discussion as well. Even so, the recent results (3/21, 3/36, 9/53), which he got at monthly tournament, are still decent. In my opinion this is an incredibly borderline case, but should just barely work for notability. CookiesCreme 14:41, December 23, 2020 (EST)

Does the HK PR only count Tournaments from Hong Kong? Or do you count tournaments from other areas? Luke Skywalker (talk) 11:55, December 25, 2020 (EST)