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| :This isn't how you create a Smasher page, you need to be autoconfirmed which is an account created at least 7 days and have 10 edits. Also, whenever you comment on a talk page, makes sure to sign your posts with 4 tildes. (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]] [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 02:30, September 9, 2021 (EDT) | | :This isn't how you create a Smasher page, you need to be autoconfirmed which is an account created at least 7 days and have 10 edits. Also, whenever you comment on a talk page, makes sure to sign your posts with 4 tildes. (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]] [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 02:30, September 9, 2021 (EDT) |
| :<small>(edit conflict)</small> Having defeated notable players doesn't necessarily make a player notable themselves. And those names who DF has on his belt aren't exactly the most well-known themselves, except perhaps Sinji due to being PGR ranked.<br>More to the point, all of those players (except Grunk, who I cannot find any information on) have at least one Power Ranking under their belt. Dark Falcon however doesn't seem to. That alone [[SW:NOTABLE|wouldn't disqualify them from getting a page on here]], but DF doesn't seem to have, at least not yet, done anything that's truly remarkable.<br>So yeh, unless you can give us more information about DF, like for example a regional-level PR or highly recognisable achievement, we can't accept a page being created at this time. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|🦊'''Furry Nation'''🐺]]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 02:42, September 9, 2021 (EDT) | | :<small>(edit conflict)</small> Having defeated notable players doesn't necessarily make a player notable themselves. And those names who DF has on his belt aren't exactly the most well-known themselves, except perhaps Sinji due to being PGR ranked.<br>More to the point, all of those players (except Grunk, who I cannot find any information on) have at least one Power Ranking under their belt. Dark Falcon however doesn't seem to. That alone [[SW:NOTABLE|wouldn't disqualify them from getting a page on here]], but DF doesn't seem to have, at least not yet, done anything that's truly remarkable.<br>So yeh, unless you can give us more information about DF, like for example a regional-level PR or highly recognisable achievement, we can't accept a page being created at this time. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|🦊'''Furry Nation'''🐺]]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 02:42, September 9, 2021 (EDT) |
| ::You are wrong because Dark Falcon actually has pretty good online results. He had a breakout tourney which was briefly mentioned in the Discord and his offline weeklies placings ain't bad either. Did you look at Smashdata.gg for this one? [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]] [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 02:49, September 9, 2021 (EDT)
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| :::No. I'm not clever enough to know about such things. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|🦊'''Furry Nation'''🐺]]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 03:25, September 9, 2021 (EDT)
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| == DLC development info is a mess here ==
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| While reading this page, I noticed that the section detailing DLC development is very disorganized and messy; even after trying to clean it up myself, I still thought the same way. My main issue stems from the sheer amount of detail in it - do we really need to specify the release date for every character and the exact air date of Sakurai's presentations with every single detail from it? Sure, some stuff may be notable, such as Sakurai's chance encounter with a Disney rep, but as it currently stands, it's a big mess. I'm not really sure how to do it myself so I'm putting this here. --[[User:123VideoGamerNinja|123VideoGamerNinja]] ([[User talk:123VideoGamerNinja|talk]]) 17:39, August 10, 2022 (EDT)
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| == Series vs Fighter order ==
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| I am aware this was brought up above somewhere but i really cannot fathom how it would still make sense to keep it in series order. That was a decision made five or so years ago when the game came out and i don't think it reflects the commonly preferred order now. [[User:Toomai/On the order of things|This talk page]], for example, says the order relies on knowing the history of smash and is harder to search for characters which i'm not sure people would agree on today, since the fighter order is properly reflected on the character select screen. I had made a forum proposal a year ago and it was archived as they said this would be a better place to put it, but I think i would make much more sense to leave the decision up to voting or something like that. [[User:Luigi86101|Luigi86101]] ([[User talk:Luigi86101|talk]]) 23:32, July 12, 2023 (EDT)
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| :I would personally prefer fighter order because it's ingrained into our minds from it being in the game for years, there's so many third parties these days that it means Byleth is almost at the start of the newcomers which is very odd for DLC interspersed like that, and other newcomers like Isabelle are buried in the middle of the list. Just takes more thought to find characters than it otherwise would imo - that said though, stages being grouped by series DOES feel easier, so if it's one or the other than yeah ig series order [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="darkorange">Toast</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="seablue">'''ltimatum'''</font>]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 17:05, July 13, 2023 (EDT)
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| :The primary reason is consistency with other games, since we cannot use the Sakurai numbers for them (they're based on development decisions we have to make assumptions for) or for other things on the same page such as stages (again, we'd have to assume a lot). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[File:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Riotous 17:08, July 13, 2023 (EDT)
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| ::Crazy idea, but...what if instead we just make each game's stuff sorted by how it appears on its own selection screen? That way there's at least ''some'' consistency, even if it's inconsistent by itself from game to game. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]] [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Gamer'''</span>]] 17:25, July 13, 2023 (EDT)
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| :::The awkward thing with that is that these screens tend to be fairly short-and-wide, which is not ideal for display on wiki pages. And given some games align things based on both rows and columns, wrapping is not viable. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[File:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Indescribable 17:37, July 13, 2023 (EDT)
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| ::there's no assuming to be made since we know the numbers for all the ult characters. not to mention that this would keep consistency with the other games since their CSSs use series order already. [[User:Luigi86101|Luigi86101]] ([[User talk:Luigi86101|talk]]) 00:47, July 14, 2023 (EDT)
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| :::You misunderstood my point. The Sakurai numbers are based on which characters are considered "low dev effort" and which are not. This definition has changed between the games enough that using SSBU's order for games that are not SSBU is inaccurate at best. And of course we can't know whatever the next game will do. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[File:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Quintonic 09:28, July 15, 2023 (EDT)
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| :::thats not what i mean, i'm only saying only the ultimate page should have the characters listed in fighter order because that's the most well known order and official order for ultimate. theres no reason to change any other page or worry about keeping consistency for future games; ultimate can be an exception imo. [[User:Luigi86101|Luigi86101]] ([[User talk:Luigi86101|talk]]) 20:28, July 15, 2023 (EDT)
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| :I don't have much stake in this wiki anymore, but I do think series order makes much more intuitive sense, since the CSS is designed primarily for its gameplay purpose and not for a wiki "searching for info" purpose. If you want to find info about King Dedede, it's much easier to just look for the Kirby section than to remember he's number 39 or something. That's just me, though. ~ [[User:StrawberryChan|<span style="color: #e68;">'''StrawberryChan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:StrawberryChan|talk]]) 18:51, July 13, 2023 (EDT)
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| ::the thing is i feel in a "searching for info" purpose, fighter order is a lot easier to look at since it's so ingrained into people's minds by now, like i always have trouble finding the character i want with series order. [[User:Luigi86101|Luigi86101]] ([[User talk:Luigi86101|talk]]) 00:47, July 14, 2023 (EDT)
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| Wanted to bring up a poll (189 votes) i held on my twitter, where fighter order won by a bit https://twitter.com/LuigiTKO/status/1679335311485050881 . Not enough in my opinion to make a definite change but definitely shows that it wasn't as one sided as when the game came out. [[User:Luigi86101|Luigi86101]] ([[User talk:Luigi86101|talk]]) 00:47, July 14, 2023 (EDT)
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| What would people say to alphabetical order? I don't like it mostly for aesthetic reasons (and a game's main page is the one page I think this matters), but it solves all the other problems - it's objective, it's intuitive, it's consistent, and we use it elsewhere specifically so we don't have to argue about order. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[File:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Superlative 09:31, July 15, 2023 (EDT)
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| :That brings up the issue of transformation characters, since with all of them their names are nowhere close to each other alphabetically, yet it should be obvious that they should be grouped with their counterparts. Ignoring the alternate transformation's name and just grouping them with the primary character could work, but that defeats the point of the consistency. Personally, I think the series order is good; the only times where a character's order is arguable is within their own series (i.e., Lucina was revealed before Robin but Lucina is unlockable while Robin is a starter, or Sheik being revealed first in Melee but all games pre-Ultimate prioritizing Zelda), meaning characters only swap one place instead of five if somebody disagrees. [[User:Unnamed anon|Unnamed anon]] ([[User talk:Unnamed anon|talk]]) 15:41, July 15, 2023 (EDT)
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