Editing Talk:Spike

Okay, so I hate to be picky, but I must. The definition of a spike is an attack that sends the opponent down and which *cannot* be meteor-recovered. Falcon's dair is not a spike, neither is Samus dair. Not even Ganondorf's. The reason? The downwards trajectory can be cancelled by pressing "jump" or "up+b" at the right time. Once again, a spike cannot be meteored.

Few characters have spikes. In fact, there are 3. The rest may have "meteors" but not spikes.

To the best of my knowledge, there are 3 spike moves.
1) Falco's Dair.
2) Marth's Dair.
3) Ganondorf's Down+B

Note also that Spikes don't necessarily kill the opponent each time: at low damages the downwards thrust wears off and a character can recover. By 40 or so damage, though, this just isn't the case.

Yeah, i couldn't edit the top part for some reason. So my bad on typing this up here.
--[[User:Firexemblemxpryde|Firexemblemxpryde]] 00:47, March 26, 2007 (GMT)

Doesn't Young Link have a spike? When you hit the enemy with the hilt of your sword in D-air. It may not be very easy to execute but its a spike nonetheless.--[[User:DSMANIAC92|DSMANIAC92]] 14:15, April 1, 2007 (GMT)
 
No, Young Link's dairspike can be cancelled. [[User:Eighteenspikes|Eighteenspikes]] 04:35, April 8, 2007 (GMT)

== Marth's D-air ==

It spikes perfectly well on my PAL version. [[User:M Shark|M Shark]] 23:33, November 21, 2007 (EST)

On the PAL version it's a [[Meteor Smash]], instead of a true spike. It can be meteor canceled. [[User:Taiketo|Taiketo]] 00:07, November 22, 2007 (EST)

== Inconsistency ==

About the Meteor Smashes and Spikes in Brawl the two articles are incoherent. The [[Spike]] article says that Toon Link's Dair and Wolf's Side Special are spikes (images). But in the [[Meteor Smash]] article, it is written, and I'll quote, ''Till now, no spikes are found in Brawl, so all meteors can be canceled.'' This is confusing. So after all, are there spikes in Brawl or not? I'll be glad if someone could check this issue. [[User:Xeze|Xeze]] ([[User talk:Xeze|talk]]) 03:13, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
:From, my understanding, there is only one attack that can truly spike a character, and that attack is Sonic's up-smash.  A while back, I heard that Sonic's up-smash can spike someone.  I decided to test this out my self.  The test was conducted by selecting Ike and Sonic.  Afterwards, I picked Final Destination.  Next, I placed Ike and Sonic at the left edge of the stage with Sonic's back facing Ike.  Then I used Sonic's up-smash on Ike.  Ike was then launched upwards.  I continued to us Sonic's up-smash on Ike until Ike was launched downwards as if he were meteor smashed.  Afterwards, I attempted to meteor cancel the up-smash with Ike.  I could not cancel the meteor smash at any damage.  The earliest damage that Ike will be "spiked" by Sonic's up-smash it 47%.  To meteor cancel, on must jump after approximately half of the meteor smash's hitstun has worn out.  An easy way to do this is by mashing Ike's up-special.[[User:Y462|Y462]] <small>([[User talk:Y462|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Y462|Contributions]] )</small> 03:32, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

==Difference between Drill and Spike==
There were many inconsistencies with the smash 64 one. Many of the "spikes" are actually drills. Also, Mario's F-air is not a spike, its a forward kick. [[User:KoRoBeNiKi]]
:Define [[Drill]]. Either it spikes or not. If it doesn't have downwards knockback, it doesn't spike. - [[User:Gargomon251|Gargomon251]] ([[User talk:Gargomon251|talk]]) 18:09, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

== Crazy Hand ==

I literally just found this out. I was facing Crazy Hand in Melee's adventure mode as Captain Falcon. He was doing that move where he goes up then hits the ground with an open hand. I had air dodged the coming down part, but then in the last few frames, he hit me and I went flying Diagonally down left, and I couldn't meteor cancel. Would this classify as a spike, or is more research necessary?'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 13:18, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

So I tried it again, and it seemed that while he was on the ground after the move, there are still a few frames where he can do damage. In these few frames, it appears the attack can spike or meteor smash you, I'm not entirely sure, as I may just be poor at meteor canceling(I was at ~80% first time, ~40 second time). However, the second time, I was not sent off the stage, I just got slammed into the ground, which I'm assuming is the same effect.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 13:32, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
:I don't think boss attacks count as spikes, or Master Hand would have one. Master hand also has this poke attack as a spike. Btw, how did you face Crazy hand in adventure mode? did you hack the game? [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 23:09, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

== A missed spike? ==

Like 10 minutes ago, I was playing Melee and it was ditto battle of Falcos and I hit the CPU off the stage and I meant to Shine him but I accidentally made him use
Phantasm and in the starting frames (Not when readies himself, but when he starts moving)I hit the CPU and he went diagnolley right as my Phantasm returned me back to the Battlefield. He regained control and tried to recover but he didn't do this until the hitstun wore off. Is THIS a spike. I will test and see, but feel free to beat me to the testing. ([[User:Ninoaguila|Ninoaguila]] ([[User talk:Ninoaguila|talk]]) 04:21, December 24, 2009 (UTC))


Okay, I tested it and it's true and false. If you hit the opponent at the beginning of the attack, it send the opponent in the opposite direction diagnolley, but you can still Meteor Cancel it so it's not a spike in which it can be Cancelled ([[User:Ninoaguila|Ninoaguila]] ([[User talk:Ninoaguila|talk]]) 23:54, December 24, 2009 (UTC))

==Dancing Blade==
I'm pretty sure Roy's is a spike. See this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhqoXWAVcyg]. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 02:32, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
:No, that's a meteor smash. It's trajectory was straight down. One important aspect of spikes is that instead of their trajectories being straight down, they send opponents in a downwards diagonal trajectory. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 02:45, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
::Actually, the only difference is that a spike can't be meteor canceled.  You can get Marth's D-air to go straight down, but it can't be canceled so it's a spike.  Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure Dancing Blade is a meteor smash and not a spike.  [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 04:42, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
:::I know that is the definition of a spike, but I also noticed that all of the ''Melee'' spikes' natural trajectories (with no DI) is at a diagonal trajectory instead of straight down. As such, the video was against a computer, who do not DI at all. With the cpu Bowser being sent straight down, it is clearly a meteor smash. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 04:46, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
:::When Marth's Dair sends opponents straight downward, it acts as a meteor smash, allowing them to cancel. However, if you sweetspot the spike, you will spike the opponent at a diagonal angle. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 23:07, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
::::In the NTSC version, Marth's dair is always a spike, no matter how it is DI'd. In the PAL versions however, it is always a meteor smash. I never played or seen footage of the PAL version before, so I don't know if it has the diagonal trajectory it has in the NTSC version or if it has the straight down trajectory of meteor smashes. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 00:28, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
:::::That's odd. I'm pretty sure I have the NTSC version (it shows the ESRB rating), but I once hit a CPU in the air with it. It launched the CPU straight downward, but the CPU instantly canceled it with its up special. The momentum was definitely not over, as it was just after a hit it. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 00:54, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
::::::Well, what you should do is play as Marth and fight a cpu Jigglypuff (or Kirby) and when you are edgeguarding it, use Marth's dair against it. In my experience, Jigglypuff and Kirby has always meteor cancelled when they had midair jumps remaining when they were recovering. I have even seen them meteor cancelled Ganondorf's dair above 100%. You should do this to make sure you didn't just mistake seeing the computer meteor cancelling Marth's dair before. On a final note, whenever someone meteor cancels in ''Melee'', they will flash white and a wind cutting sound will be heard. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 01:07, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Thank you for the idea. It's possible that I might have hit the CPU at low percentage, causing the momentum to end. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 04:28, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

OK, I tested it on a Level 9 Jigglypuff. It hit her at a diagonal angle. However, she canceled it. I don't see how this works. I'm confused. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 20:52, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
:Just because an attack isn't a perfect -90 doesn't mean it's not considered a Meteor Smash (see Mario's fair). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 21:07, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
::I never said it wasn't a 90 degree angle, I just said that the attack may not always spike. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 22:17, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
:::Did the Jigglypuff flashed white with a wind cutting sound being heard? Also, did it always meteor cancelled the dair? If you answer yes to both of these questions, then you probably have the PAL version, because to my knowledge, Marth's dair always spikes in the NTSC version. Also Toomai, in the NTSC version of ''Melee'', all meteor smashes send opponents on a -90 degree angle, including Mario's fair. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 04:16, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
::::No, it did not always cancel the meteor smash. I hit it later with the dair and it spiked perfectly. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 05:16, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
:::::Did the Jigglypuff flashed white with you hearing a wind cutting sound? A meteor cancel in Melee has only occurred when this happens. Also, did you get the meteor smash bonus whenever you KOd Jigglypuff with it? <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 05:59, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

== SSB64 spikes ==

On the SSB64 website, they are identified as meteor smashes. I know that it's not wrong to call them spikes, but as there is no meteor cancelling in SSB64, I think they should be moved to the meteor smash article. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 19:05, 8 October 2010 (EDT)
:I think meteor smash may be the proper name as well, but we would need an official source to call them that (this is assuming, the site you're referring to isn't official). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span>[[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 00:24, 9 October 2010 (EDT)
::http://classic-web.archive.org/web/19991129023828/smashbros.com/enter.html I'm pretty sure this is the official site. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 13:13, 23 April 2011 (EDT)

== What differentiates a spike from a meteor smash ==

Judging by angle information in the meteor smash article, the spikes in Melee don't register as meteor smashes because they hit opponents outside the angles recognised as meteor smashes. This would explain why all the spikes in Melee hit opponents at a slight diagonal angle while all meteor smashes send opponents straight down.

Am I correct, or do spikes/meteor smashes have their own flag in Melee? <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 13:01, 17 January 2012 (EST)
:You are correct. Any angle between 260 and 280 (inclusive) in Melee is a meteor smash; anything else is not. Brawl has this as well, but since the range is much larger (230-310), you have to get into 45-degree territory before you get a spike, and there are no attacks with that kind of angle. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Superlative 13:43, 17 January 2012 (EST)

== Master edges: Combo, isn't that a spike? ==

One attack of the Master Edges is to charge up shortly and then hitting the player several times before launching him almost perfect 45° downwards.

Isn't that a pretty prominent spike? Because it's not listed in SSB4 spikes.

[[Special:Contributions/178.200.21.8|178.200.21.8]] 01:30, 16 May 2015 (EDT)
:We don't know what the technical threshold of "spike" versus "meteor" is right now. Assuming it's the same as Brawl (meteors are 230-310), there are no hitboxes in Master Edges' moveset that I know of that are spikes. There are a few that are semi-spikes though, and even one that's a completely flat 360 (which is weird because the game usually uses 0 instead). The problem is we don't know what attacks these hitboxes belong to. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Eggster 10:09, 16 May 2015 (EDT)

== Spikes in Smash 64, Smash 4 ==

According to the article on meteor smashes, meteor canceling does not exist in SSB64 or SSB4. Given that a spike is defined as an attack that sends the receiver at a predominately downwards angle, and cannot be meteor canceled, why aren't so-called "meteors" in SSB64 and SSB4 considered spikes?
--[[User:Iceweasel|Iceweasel]] ([[User talk:Iceweasel|talk]]) 00:34, 21 May 2015 (EDT)

:Pretty sure meteor canceling exists in Smash 4 since I've seen people up B before dying; it's highly doubtful moves that strong would have their hitstun end before opponent reach the bottom blast line. But basically a meteor is defined as a move that sends opponents in the angle range of (270 - X, 270 + X) measured in degrees. Any angle that is still downward but outside that range is defined as a spike. The window X is unknown and there's the possibility the number of frames you have to wait before you can meteor cancel has increased. Or it could be that people mistime the hitlag of the attack and meteor cancel too early or too late.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 02:41, 21 May 2015 (EDT)
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-==Toon Link and G&W==
-What about SSBB Toon Link's d-air (in initial frames) and Mr. G&W's? are they meteor strikes or spikes? I though they were spikes - [[User:Ashran111|Ashran111]] ([[User talk:Ashran111|talk]]) 03:42, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-Since there is no meteor cancelling in brawl,anything that meteors/hits them down is considered a spike,so yes they're technically spikes. [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]])
-I don't know if it's worth mentioning since I can't prove it, but I have survived Meteor Smashes while at high percentages.  Also, I believe Luigi's dair is a spike if you hit the sweetspot. [[User:MaxxDragon|MaxxDragon]] ([[User talk:MaxxDragon|talk]]) 21:31, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
-==Definition==
 Okay, so I hate to be picky, but I must. The definition of a spike is an attack that sends the opponent down and which *cannot* be meteor-recovered. Falcon's dair is not a spike, neither is Samus dair. Not even Ganondorf's. The reason? The downwards trajectory can be cancelled by pressing "jump" or "up+b" at the right time. Once again, a spike cannot be meteored.
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