Editing Talk:Meteor smash

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==Separating "intentional" from "incidental"==
I've always had the opinion that listing pointless, trapping-only meteor smashes beside attacks designed to KO off the bottom is a bad idea. It is slightly confusing and most users will probably only care about one at a time. Seeing as this page is one of the biggest on the wiki, I suggest we split incidental meteor smashes onto a subpage and leave all the intentional ones here. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Undirigible 22:06, 5 May 2012 (EDT)
:We could do a split like that, though we should use different names, as "incidental" with the other being "intentional" seems to imply something was a meteor smash due to a programming mistake, something we are completely incapable of verifying. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 14:17, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
:How would we define a "pointless" meteor smash from an "intentional" one? Some attacks have meteor smash hitboxes that are obviously designed to link into the other hits, such as {{SSBB|Sonic}}'s up smash, but others aren't so cut and dried. For example, would {{SSBB|King Dedede}}'s down aerial meteor smash be considered pointless or intentional? [[User:Mousehunter321|<font face="Calibri">Mousehunter321</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Mousehunter321|<font face="Calibri">talk</font>]] · [[Special:Contributions/Mousehunter321|<font face="Calibri">contributions</font>]])</small> 14:21, 6 May 2012 (EDT)

Maybe we could use "incidental" for the "pointless" meteor smashes (the ones whose primary purpose is to keep opponents in range for the rest of the attack) and not have a specific name for intentional ones?

Dedede's dair would be incidental, since as far as I'm aware it's not feasible to avoid connecting with the final hit. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Emissary 15:40, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
:I'm failing to see how this is in any way a useful categorization. I think it's more likely to cause confusion than provide any useful information. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:09, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
::The point is to split our sixth-fattest page into meteor smashes that can actually be used as such and meteor smashes that happen to exist just because a multi-hit attack needs downwards-hitting hitboxes. Users likely only care about meteor smashes that are practical to meteor smash with; if they're interested in those that are only there for technical reasons, we'd link to the subpage. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Honcho 19:10, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
:Dedede can land right after the initial hit (it's also feasible for the opponent to get hit by the tip of it and SDI below). I've done it to people a few times. Also, look at my post on why "incidental" should not be used. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 17:19, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
::I thought your post was complaining about "intentional", not "incidental". I fail to see how "incidental" - for which I believe the definition is "not the primary purpose of something" - can be implied to mean "there by mistake". Dedede's dair is still incidental because when you're designing a multi-hit attack you intend for the last hit to be the one that matters. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Honcho 19:10, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
:::The definition of incidental is: "Loosely associated; existing as a byproduct, tangent, or '''accident'''." You also didn't say anything about not using "intentional".

:::As for alternate titles, Toast suggested "nonconventional" on the IRC, which I believe to be a better fit. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:40, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
::::How about "minor"? A lot shorter and gets across the idea of being less useful than normal ones (which would just be called "meteor smashes" with no adjective). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Riotous 21:30, 10 May 2012 (EDT)
:::::I would still go with "nonconventional". "Minor" doesn't exactly imply that the meteor smash doesn't work as your typical "hit the recovering opponent down to their death" meteor, and could instead be mistaken to imply these meteor smashes are just ineffective/barely effective (such as Fox's dair, which while not very effective, is still a conventional meteor smash). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:54, 10 May 2012 (EDT)
::::::Well I guess we can always change the name later, the main point is to split the page.
::::::I will note though that maybe "unconventional" is better than "nonconventional". Seems to flow better to me, and Google gives twice the results for it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Inconceivable 21:59, 10 May 2012 (EDT)
:::::::Sounds fine to me. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 01:09, 11 May 2012 (EDT)

Another acceptable name would be '''Atypical meteor smash''', though I personally think Unconventional is more fluent. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="ff8c00">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="01a3c4">'''ltimatum'''</font>]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 11:33, 11 May 2012 (EDT)

== Split ==

Make separate subpages for each game to list the meteor smashes in them. The page is already very large and Smash 4 will push the page to the 100K mark. Plus it would be more organised. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 06:48, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
:'''Support''' I always thought the page is too big, unorganised, and messy. [[User:Scr7|Scr]][[User talk:Scr7|7]][[File:Wolfsig.png|19px]] 06:52, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
:'''Indeed''' [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] El Pollo 12:27, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
:Per above. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 12:30, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
:'''yep''' [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:14, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
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 :Per above. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 12:30, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
 :'''yep''' [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:14, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
-:'''Support with the power of a thousand oranges''' [[User:RoyboyX|<font color="red">'''Roy'''</font><font color="gray">'''boy'''</font><font color="darkred">'''X'''</font>]] [[User talk:RoyboyX|''<span style="color:brown;">'''Talk'''</span>'']] 13:22, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
-== Cancel through jump after double jump ==
-In Melee, can you meteor cancel through jumping if you've already double jumped? I.e. do you get a "free" jump or not? - <font face="lucida handwriting,segoe script">Ceci n’est pas un [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]].</font> 15:17, 10 August 2013 (EDT)
-:Just checked, and it sure seems you can't. [[User:Chuck the Duck|Chuck the Duck]] ([[User talk:Chuck the Duck|talk]]) 16:10, 10 August 2013 (EDT)
-==SFX in SSB4==
-Mr. Sakurai has shown us that Meteor Smashes make a new SFX when they hit. Shouldn't we add that somewhere?
-No response other than fucking sign your posts. Hell, clear evidence that a person without an account can sign right here. [[Special:Contributions/108.194.146.62|108.194.146.62]] 14:24, 20 January 2014 (EST)
-I HAVE NO ACCOUNT!
-:Seriously, just ''type the four tildes after your post''. I've told you this twice already. Here are the four tildes again if you need them: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. If you can't simply type those after your post, I have no idea what the hell is wrong with you. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 14:16, 21 January 2014 (EST)
-:That IP above even clearly showed you that it's possible for people without an account to sign. Open your eyes. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 14:16, 21 January 2014 (EST)
-== Meteor Cancel Confusion ==
-Meteor cancelling didn't exist in SSB or ''Brawl,'' but in both games, meteor smashes are possible to survive. So why is it that SmashWiki states meteor cancelling did exist in ''Brawl,'' but not in SSB? Should this be changed? [[User:ViciousViridian|VICIOUS VIRIDIAN!!!!!!]] ([[User talk:ViciousViridian|talk]]) 12:20, 23 February 2014 (EST)
-:Meteor cancelling does exist in Brawl. Most characters can cancel a meteor smash with a midair jump in Brawl (it's just less effective than in Melee). This cannot be done at all in Smash 64. Many meteor smashes in Smash 64 can still be survived, but only at very low percentages. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 12:22, 23 February 2014 (EST)
-:The article explicitly states how meteor cancelling works in Brawl. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 17:32, 23 February 2014 (EST)
-== SSB4 Meteor Trail ==
-I've noticed that in this picture [http://www.ssbwiki.com/File:Mario_Fair_Meteor_Smashes_Kirby_SSB4.jpg], the trail of Kirby being meteor smashed is sparkling, like the trail of a falling star. Is this a new meteor effect? None of the Wii U screens seem to have it, though, so maybe 3DS only? And no, I don't mean the red beam-like effect, I'm aware that all strong hits cause that one. [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 16:05, 25 February 2014 (EST)
-:Might be part of the 3DS's KO trail. Can't say either way right now. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Free 18:35, 25 February 2014 (EST)
-::Oh, my bad; the sparkles are part of the Wii U KO trail too, it just isnt visible in most screens. But not meteor related, sorry. [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 18:53, 25 February 2014 (EST)
-==SSB4 Meteor Smashes==
-Although there may not be much, should we still add a "List of meteor smashes (SSB4)" page? [[User:Aidanzapunk|Aidan the Average Gamer]] ([[User talk:Aidanzapunk|talk]]) 19:54, 17 July 2014 (EDT)
-:There's a list of copy abilities for SSB4 already, so I don't see why not. [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 19:58, 17 July 2014 (EDT)
-::The page should definitely be made. From first hand experience I can say that most characters have at least 1 meteor smash (usually being their Dair) [[User:Justinjustin7|Justinjustin7]] ([[User talk:Justinjustin7|talk]]) 00:42, 11 October 2014 (EDT)
-:::Yea, I've noticed...*counts* at least 13 different meteor smashes. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]] [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Gamer'''</span>]] 00:52, 11 October 2014 (EDT)
-::::Through a quick google search I found a list of many of the meteor smashes on reddit [http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2gh274/anyone_have_a_list_of_characters_with_a_meteor/] not all of it appears correct based on some personal testing, but it's a good start (P.S. I added "List of meteor smashes (SSB4)" to the list of meteor smashes section of this page) [[User:Justinjustin7|Justinjustin7]] ([[User talk:Justinjustin7|talk]]) 00:59, 11 October 2014 (EDT)
-== Meteor Smash 4 ==
-The game's out now...so when's this going to come up? [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]] [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Gamer'''</span>]] 23:51, 8 October 2014 (EDT)
-== Capitalization ==
-As far as I can tell, officially this term is capitalized in ''SSB4'' ([https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKlaxXyxNw], [https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAABAAD4UgHrlJORIQ]), but not in ''Brawl'' ([http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_uk/howto/basic/basic10.html], [http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/characters/donkeykong.html], [http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_uk/characters/lucas.html], [http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/characters/samus.html], [http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_uk/characters/hidden12.html]). Is this something worth noting, and does anyone have any instances that contradict my findings? (I'm not suggesting the page be moved, due to [[SW:OFFICIAL]].) --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 08:28, 28 October 2014 (EDT)
-== Megaman (SSB4)'s Down Tilt used to meteor smash opponents on ledges? ==
-Yeah about this subject (which I should've posted earlier)... I once updated the [[list of meteor smashes (SSB4)]] by adding {{SSB4|Mega Man}}'s down tilt on "[[ledge]]d" opponents to it but it got removed some time afterwards. I found out about this  [[meteor smash]] when playing online against him (with [[Dark Pit]]) and when I grabbed a ledge and waited there, he somehow meteor smashed me with a [[down tilt]]. I'm not sure if it was removed in an update or what and I had a replay to prove this, but due an update some time after that, it forced me to have to delete the unplayable replay!... but I guess it can't be considered a meteor smash now since a specific update. Maybe I should start using the Youtube Upload Feature of update 1.1.0 or a Game Capture to show some evidence on what I find?
-[[User:Yin10Dou|Yin10Dou]] ([[User talk:Yin10Dou|talk]]) 00:14, 19 September 2015 (EDT)Yin10Dou
-:Mega Man's down tilt has never had a meteor smash. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Brazen 06:09, 19 September 2015 (EDT)
-::Yea, I don't know where the hell that idea came from. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 08:32, 19 September 2015 (EDT)
-:::Probably a stage spike, people have gotten them confused with a meteor before. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Bold 19:55, 19 September 2015 (EDT)
-== Merging the pages into one ==
-Hey guys, why don't we merge the meteor smash pages into one? [[File:SonicHeadBlackSSB4-3.png|17px|link=User:SonicSpeed48]][[User talk:SonicSpeed48|<font color="navyblue">''Speed'''''48'''</font>]] 11:19, 29 October 2015 (EDT)
-:I would consider that less useful. If someone wants to see a list of meteor smashes, they probably have a specific game in mind. To be honest, though, this wiki seems rather inconsistent about which pages are split by game... [[User:Zyrac|Zyrac]] ([[User talk:Zyrac|talk]]) 11:39, 29 October 2015 (EDT)
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