Editing Talk:Brawl-

==Character changes==
Wondering, how specific do we plan to be on this section before I try researching more of this? Do we plan to only mention general and major changes to characters? Do we plan to get to the specifics on how every single attack was changed? Or do we do something in between? <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span>[[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 01:47, 22 October 2010 (EDT)
:I am of the opinion we should have few (if any) specifics at all. If people are interested in that stuff they can go to the website or something. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 10:03, 22 October 2010 (EDT)
::Alright, do you think my recent edit was too in depth, or was it at the depth we should strive for in this section? <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span>[[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 10:19, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

==How to setup Brawl-==
How do you setup Brawl-? [[User:Smash Master|Smash Master]] ([[User talk:Smash Master|talk]]) 22:23, 19 January 2012 (EST) [[File:KirbyHeadSSBB.png|19px]]
:SmashWiki isn't a help site for this stuff. Go to the Brawl Minus forums, and ask for help there. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 22:55, 19 January 2012 (EST)

== Split ==

Currently, Brawl- is the seventh-largest page on the wiki, and as we continue to improve the changelogs and add more information (as it becomes necessary), the page will only grow bigger. Considering this and the scope of the mod in general, I believe that the page should be split in one of the following ways:
*'''Create a changelog subpage'''. This is less than ideal, as the changelog would be almost as big as the current page, but it could be further split by character if necessary, which brings me to my next proposal:
*'''Create pages for characters, like in [[Project M]]'''. I believe we voted against this or a similar measure in the past, but new characters have been added to Brawl- since then (at least Roy, maybe Pichu if it wasn't added earlier).
*'''Create a subpage for other topics, including stages, gameplay engine features, etc.''' The page would still be huge, but some of the weight of it would be taken off.
Thoughts? [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 20:11, 9 July 2015 (EDT)

Brawl- is a rather obscure Brawl mod compared to Project M, which on the other hand, has a competitive play that's "bigger" than Brawl itself and is actually treated like "another Smash game" (Yes I put the quotes there because I don't like PM personally). You can make a changelog subpage for Brawl- but I don't think Brawl- is that big enough to have character pages. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The Bold 21:04, 9 July 2015 (EDT)
:I'm not arguing that the mod is less well-known, but the amount of new content in the mod itself rivals that of Project M, which is why I think we need to split the page. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 21:07, 9 July 2015 (EDT)
::I think the core question is "do we need as many details as this page currently has", not "where do we put all these details". Given Brawl- not having a particularly large playerbase to my knowledge, I'm inclined to think this page could easily be trimmed without significant loss. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 21:10, 9 July 2015 (EDT)
:::Well, Brawl- has a competitive community of its own. Even Omega Tyrant plays it. I mean, it's like the second largest mod, after PM. It's still a major mod, and therefore should be treated just like PM. It's ridiculous to say it's mere fanon. Project M is fanon, too. This is another major mod, on the level of PM. --[[User:Darth Nightmaricus|Darth Nightmaricus]] ([[User talk:Darth Nightmaricus|talk]]) 21:13, 9 July 2015 (EDT)
::::Regardless if Omega Tyrant plays it, that seems a bit odd to bring up. In my opinion, the split makes sense, but I only like the changelog idea. This mod's changelog needs updated regardless. Character pages would I guess be viable since this mod isn't dead like most of the other big Brawl ones that were once alive. '''In a nutshell, support for changelog+character pages'''. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:F0rZ3r0F0r|F0rZ3r0F0r]] ([[User talk:F0rZ3r0F0r|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/F0rZ3r0F0r|contribs]]) 11:57, July 7, 2015 (EDT)</small>
:::We can see if scanning for minor details helps, but I'm inclined to believe the page will still be larger than that of the main games in the series. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 21:14, 9 July 2015 (EDT)
::::When was the last Brawl- major exactly? [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 21:18, 9 July 2015 (EDT)

Would it be a good compromise to make the changelog split by character? Say, pages like Brawl-/Changelog/Mario? The pages wouldn't have anything besides the changelog, and the changelog page itself could just be a navigation page, maybe with a table for the roster. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 23:45, 15 July 2015 (EDT)

:I  '''support''' the changelog and the character pages, but not the stages. Project M doesn't have stage pages, and, since Brawl - is a bit less popular, it shouldn't have stage pages either. [[User:LittleMacmain97|LittleMacmain97]], the [[Little Mac|World Circuit]] is mine! ([[User talk:LittleMacmain97|Talk]]) 13:26, 10 August 2015 (EDT)
:I am fine with having subpages (maybe not third level subpages, because that seems excessive, perhaps just do "Brawl-/Mario" instead), but I am not ok with individual stand-alone character pages. [[User:Serpent_King|<span style="font-family:Algerian; color:#008833; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #00bb77;">'''Serpent'''</span><span style="font-family:Algerian; font-size:12pt; color:black; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px Gray;">∞</span><span style="font-family:Algerian; color:#eed000; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #ffd000;">'''King'''</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent_King|(<span style="color: blue;">talk</span>)]] 23:12, 27 August 2015 (EDT)

The consensus here seems to be that a changelog subpage is fine, perhaps further split by character, but in-depth character pages are not okay. Any further opinions before I create a changelog subpage in a couple of days? [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: LawnGreen">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]] <span style="font-weight:bold;">&nbsp;·</span> [[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 18:21, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
:On second thought, there also seems to be consensus for splitting the changelog by character. Would we prefer that or a single changelog page? [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: LawnGreen">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]] <span style="font-weight:bold;">&nbsp;·</span> [[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 18:31, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
::Seems to me that consenus is splitting it by character as well, so that sounds preferable. [[User:LittleMacmain97|LittleMacmain97]], the [[Little Mac|World Circuit]] is mine! ([[User talk:LittleMacmain97|Talk]]) 18:37, 5 September 2015 (EDT)

Since apparently I didn't make it clear, I support '''reducing our level of detail''' to reduce the page size. We don't need this detailed of a changelog at all. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 18:43, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
:It was clear, I just didn't see many people in agreement. I'm sorry if it seems like I didn't understand or was discounting your opinion. Heck, I'm fine with trimming the changelog to get rid of minor stuff as well, I just don't think it will be enough. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: LawnGreen">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]] <span style="font-weight:bold;">&nbsp;·</span> [[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 18:49, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
::From my reading, it seems like consensus is for PM-style pages (discounting Miles, who seems to be alone in his opinion.) <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  18:51, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
::Also, I '''support''' PM-style character pages and changelog. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  18:52, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
:::What's the justification other than reducing the page size? Why do we need to cover this level of detail on a not-very-popular mod? [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 18:54, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
::::There's a lot of information that trying to fit it on one page doesn't do it justice. There's a lot of detail in the mod itself, and it doesn't really seem as unpopular as you seem to see it as to me. Also, you're the only person who doesn't want it split apparently. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  18:57, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::I have to agree with Nutta. If we want to avoid having 64KBs on this page or more, I believe we'll either have to split it, changelog or otherwise, or remove significant information, such as revamped moves. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: LawnGreen">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]] <span style="font-weight:bold;">&nbsp;·</span> [[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 19:02, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::All of these sections could easily be reduced to a short paragraph of prose covering the major changes instead of bullet-pointed changelogs of everything. The detail is excessive to the extreme. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 19:04, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::::And that makes sense. But you're the only one who thinks it's the better idea. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  19:04, 5 September 2015 (EDT)

So are we going to split it into changelog and character pages? <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  21:41, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
:It's 1 - 1 - 5, in favor of character pages (subpages, not "Mario (Brawl-)".) <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  21:43, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
::The thing is though, I'm not really sure if Brawl- should be given more prominence on this wiki when the mod itself is rarely talked about nowadays and it has since been almost obscure to the Smash community. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The Mac 21:46, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
::I am fine with acting now and making the subpages, as long as the parent doesn't change until the subs are in full working order. [[User:Serpent_King|<span style="font-family:Algerian"> <span style="color:#008833; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #00bb77;">'''Serpent'''</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px Gray;">∞</span><span style="color:#eed000; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #ffd000;">'''King'''</span></span>]] [[User talk:Serpent_King|(<span style="color: blue;">talk</span>)]] 21:48, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
:::If anything, I think a separate changelog page should be required. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The Penguin 21:55, 5 September 2015 (EDT)

My opinion is that we should cut the page to two or three sentences per character, with nothing more than a high-level view of the character's new playstyle, or their two or three most important changes. It's not our job to curate a changelist for someone's mod. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Ghostbuster 22:23, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
:Another solution that occurred to me was to remove the (obviously redundant) buff templates, both to make the page less of a changelog and to shorten it while keeping things organized, in addition to removing the more minor changes. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: LawnGreen">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]<span style="font-weight:bold;">&nbsp;·</span> [[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 09:07, 6 September 2015 (EDT)
:Personally, I think reducing the size that much is a bit extreme. The mod is still relevant, and limiting the description to a few sentences doesn't do justice for the more significantly changed characters, as well as Roy and Pichu. Currently, that seems to be the consensus, but I'm willing to wait for more input on this idea before splitting/cleaning up the page tomorrow. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: LawnGreen">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]<span style="font-weight:bold;">&nbsp;·</span> [[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 17:53, 6 September 2015 (EDT)

==Correct minus sign?==

Shouldn't the ''title'' at least use the correct form of the minus sign (−)? I mean, it looks better overall (the hyphen looks way too short to look good imo) and it's more correct to use the minus sign since it's Brawl Minus...
It shouldn't be hard typing it either, just copy it once from the Special Characters tab and then paste it whenever it's needed. [[User:Svenskig|Svenskig]] ([[User talk:Svenskig|talk]]) 06:47, 25 October 2015 (EDT)
:That is too minor to worry about. Plus, non-iOS users would have trouble typing the name out anyway. (I use an iPad) [[file:INoMedssig.png|20px]] <span style="text-shadow:0px 0px 3px red"><font face="Times New Roman">[[User:INoMed|<font color="red">'''INoMed'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:INoMed|<font color="red">'''''(Talk • '''''</font>]][[User:INoMed/Contribs|<font color="red">'''''Contribs)'''''</font>]]</sup></font></span> 06:51, 25 October 2015 (EDT)

== Waluigi ==

In case you haven't heard, Waluigi [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo9dt1zwqZQ has been confirmed] for Brawl-. How should we mention him, since we can't just create a changelog for him? I think our best option might be to write a paragraph on him in the character changes subpage (preferably in a Newcomers section), but I'm open to ideas. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 07:34, 27 March 2016 (EDT)
:Bump. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 21:51, 28 March 2016 (EDT)
:Works for me... <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #0b7">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #fd0">'''King'''</span></span>]] 22:01, 28 March 2016 (EDT)

== Waluigi does cameo in WarioWare Gold ==
My trivia edit got reverted, but [https://youtu.be/F_YRDWloFkY?t=78 Waluigi does make a cameo in WarioWare Gold via amiibo Sketch] so he has appeared in the series in some form. It was enough to make the piece of trivia removed from Super Mario Wiki as seen [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Waluigi&diff=next&oldid=2475726 here]. --[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 23:03, 15 January 2019 (EST)
:Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that. Sorry, I forgot that even existed. [[File:LuigiHeadSSBU.png|20px]] [[User:Luigi1234|<span style="color: #00994C">'''Luigi1234'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Luigi1234|talk]]) [[File:LuigiHeadSSBU.png|20px]] 23:24, 15 January 2019 (EST)
::Alright, it was just a misunderstanding then. I'll re-revert it. --[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 00:31, 16 January 2019 (EST)

== Move request: Brawl- > Brawl Minus ==

''Brawl-'' is an outdated name for the mod. The name ''Brawl Minus'' has been the name in usage by the logo and every single official social for many years now.

Sources:
* https://brawlminus.net/
* https://x.com/brawlminus
* https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCue3qoCG-8f1Q0khX83Ex3w
* An [https://www.ssbwiki.com/File:Brawl_Minus_logo_alt.png official logo] clearly displaying ''Brawl Minus'' being uploaded here in 2014.
* Here's a [https://forums.brawlminus.net/threads/brawl-minus-max-cbliss-thread.33/ forum thread] by one of the lead devs consistently using ''Brawl Minus'' over ''Brawl-'' as early as 2014.
[[User:Brolunite|Brolunite]] ([[User talk:Brolunite|talk]]) 05:25, December 22, 2025 (EST) 
:I agree. It’s outdated and it should be changed. [[User:Mario Maniac|Mario Maniac]] ([[User talk:Mario Maniac|talk]]) 23:16, February 13, 2026 (UTC)
::I'm fine with it, as long as "Brawl-" is still mentioned as another variant of the name. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 23:17, February 13, 2026 (UTC)
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