Forum:Alright, here I go.
My first forum, I will experiment the ropes of this by stating something SW:TALK says it is for: opinions. My opinion is that Dedede is overrated.
First off, he has the worst neutral in Smash 4. In Brawl, all you had besides hoping your opponent is bad at shield pressure, was his back air and effective grab game. His back air has been revamped to be much less useful, and his grab game is not only much worse than Brawl (because of his significantly decreased grab range), he also does not have good enough tools in it to match with other characters like characters like DK do.
Second, he has the worst frame data in the game. Most attacks are horrendously slow. Ok, but he's a power heavyweight, he should be slow, right? First off, he is only maybe faster in frame data than Ganon. Second, that is not the big issue: the issue is that he his the only "power" heavyweight that has trouble KOing. He simply does not hit hard enough to make up for how slow he is. His punishes are not much harder than the average character, (besides dash attack, forward smash, and Jet Hammer, which have the aforementioned years of lag) and pales in comparison to power heavyweights like Bowser, DK, and Ganon. So yeah, he may be a bit faster than Ganondorf, but that does not matter because he at least has powerful punishes to compensate. As one wise, but hot-tempered user once said, having a bad neutral and punish game makes you a bad character.
Third, he has some of the worst overall mobility: the third slowest dash, a subpar walk, and the slowest air speed in the entire series. The only characters who have any sort of worse mobility than Dedede are Jigglypuff (who has insane air speed and an excellent aerial game), Robin (who has a strong projectile game and good close range power), and Ganondorf (who has powerful burst moves to compensate). Dedede, however, has none of their advantages.
Fourth, he is possibly the character who suffers most from zoning. His projectile can be reflected by anything that does at least 2% damage, not to mention how large and slow he is.
Finally, he is an even worse character with customs on. Dedede Storm, while nice when getting rushed down, removes a lot of versatility Inhale has. The incredibly overrated Taste Test resets the opponent to a neutral position where Dedede is literally nothing. Gordo Toss customs are nothing to look at, and Dedede does not need a better recovery in Rising Dedede. Finally, Jet Hammer has one of the worst moves in the game as a custom: Armored Jet Hammer. It basically returns the power to Brawl Jet Hammer (i.e. useless) and while it has more range than Brawl Jet Hammer, it has almost twice as much ending lag (it is so high, you can jump on the bottom of Battlefield's upper blast line and you won't be able to do anything until you fall to the main platform). If also has much less shield damage, so if you hit any shield with it or simply miss, you are guaranteed to be punished HARD. I feel like Dedede is a strong contender for worst character in Smash 4 with customs on.
So yeah, this is what I feel about Dedede. He and Mewtwo are the only characters I feel are completely useless. He may get buffed in a later update, but that is unlikely because he keeps getting ranked mid tier by everyone except Dabuz, ESAM, and Omega Tyrant. Ganonmew (talk) 19:17, 5 September 2015 (EDT)
- I do not think he's really that overrated. People that are newbies say that Dedede is mid-tier just because how ridiculously powerful the majority of his KO moves are. His punish game isn't that bad IMHO, he has his tilts and neutral air. I do agree, though, he gets punished hard because of how bad his neutral game was made and how his moves changed. Indeed, I think Dedede is one of the most changed veterans, but he was changed to be more of a free-for-all oriented contender, who by his powerful moves seems to be on par with Bowser in this regard, while being pretty bad in 1v1 (possibly low though still not bottom tier). Also, I think Mewtwo is pretty bad, too, but the fact many say he's useless is underrating him. He is, like Dedede low but not bottom tier, there are several characters worse than them like Mii Gunner and Samus. --BeepYou (talk) 10:23, 4 October 2015 (EDT)
- His attacks (besides the aforementioned ones) have really low knockback scaling, so they don't really KO all that early. Examples are his up air and forward tilt. Also, up tilt and down tilt starting KOing around 150%, they are not good punishing tools. Neutral air is not a KO move, it's a followup from a down throw until 50%. Mewtwo? Uh it suffers from the same issues Dedede does, only it gets KOed at 50% and does not have a lucky KO move at his disposal like Dedede does, especially after patch 1.0.8. The only thing that makes Mewtwo better than Dedede in any way is frame data and recovery. This is a subject that I feel tired but determined to argue about. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 10:35, 4 October 2015 (EDT)
- @BeepYou: Let's not forget Zelda too. Dots (talk) The Restful 10:44, 4 October 2015 (EDT)