Category talk:VIP

Notability

There's a problem if I come to the category for "very important people" and I don't know who half the people are, even after I read their articles. --Kirby King 18:49, February 20, 2007 (GMT)

Deletion

Delete Useless sounding category. --RoyboyX Talk 17:42, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

Delete No objective way to determine who belongs in this category. Mousehunter321 (talk · contributions) 20:00, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

Delete There is really no use for this category. Terrible is Halloween 20:13, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

Delete This category is confusing and pointless. Dots The Cute Asian 20:22, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

Delete Per above, and putting someone in here is more a matter of opinion. And nobody wants that. Air Conditioner -.-- -.-- --..! 20:57, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

Delete Mostly outdated and unnecessary. Mr. Anontalk 21:10, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

Keep Multiple reasons as to why this category doesn't have to be an opinion category. Simply set a few guidelines on what makes a smasher important. For example:

• Check to see if they're high placing smashers.
• Check to see if they discovered something.
• Check to see if they set a new record for something (Winning with a low tier, entering a tournament when you're under 15, etc.).
• Ask a competitive user if they recognize the name.

The category would help new people recognize who the famous smashers are, without going "He's that one guy in that one tournament" every single time someone mentions a famous smasher. MegaTron1XD 21:46, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

• "Check to see if they're high placing smashers."

In that case, this list is far outdated and not useful. How many of top professionals do you think are here? Even if we needed to categorize all of them, a category like "VIP" is not useful, as compared to something like "Category: Top Professionals", which actually gives some kind of explanation in its title.

• "Check to see if they discovered something."

Why should we have to chronicle every discoverer of every glitch and advanced technique? Does that mean people like this guy should be categorized as "Very Important People" even though there is very little information to cover?

• "Check to see if they set a new record for something (Winning with a low tier, entering a tournament when you're under 15, etc.)."

Since when does this wiki keep track of professional "records" like this? Since tiers are subject to change, information would very quickly be out of date.

As you can see, all three of these things either can be categorized by a better category or don't need to be categorized at all. Mr. Anontalk 22:33, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

Second point would have stricter regulations than what I mentioned. Your counter to the third point is invalid. San brought Ike out of the low tiers, yet he is still famous for that and being the best Ike main. Information such as winning with a then low tier character does not become outdated, especially in multiple unique cases, such as Verm, who mains a character that will never rise out of bottom tier, as he was then and still is a low character. You also disregarded the existance of the second point, in which age was a huge difference. You do not expect a 15 year old like Nairo to place anywhere in the top five of a major tournament, yet such a thing was done. Though you can convert this category to a top professional category, you exclude people who've discovered useful things, but have failed to place highly in tournaments. MegaTron1XD 22:43, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

Second point would have stricter regulations than what I mentioned.

Very well, what are they?

San brought Ike out of the low tiers, yet he is still famous for that and being the best Ike main.

That's why we have Category:Ike professionals.

Information such as winning with a then low tier character does not become outdated, especially in multiple unique cases, such as Verm

If so, what is your basis for excluding players who succeed with high-tier characters from this category if this isn't simply going to turn into a an amalgam of people who should be in, or are already in, Category:Professionals and whomever else you deem to be "important"? Again, that is why we have Category:(character) professionals and respective categories for tournament organizers, game developers and the like.

You do not expect a 15 year old like Nairo to place anywhere in the top five of a major tournament, yet such a thing was done.

While such feats are notable, would Nairo be excluded if he was 5 years older? What if he was 3 years older? If he placed in the top 16, but was two years younger, would he still belong to this category? The point is, while this information is salient for individual articles, it is difficult to objectively categorize people as "VIP" simply because they are younger than their peers.

Though you can convert this category to a top professional category, you exclude people who've discovered useful things, but have failed to place highly in tournaments.

To reiterate, we have Category:Professionals. The simple act of discovering something does not make someone automatically notable enough to be considered "very important". Toadbanjoconker did not discover wavedashing, but he is notable because he popularized it in a video he uploaded. And again, there is no objective way to determine how important a discovery is to warrant belonging to this category, not to mention that most people who would fit the above criterion are already professional players who would belong to one or more of the aforementioned categories e.g. Ken Hoang and the Ken combo.

Ask a competitive user if they recognize the name.

Since no one has responded to this point, I'll just say that this lacks any relevance whatsoever to the discussion. Mousehunter321 (talk · contributions) 23:54, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

Rather than counter your statements one by one like you did mine, I'd rather make a general paragraph that won't distract me from the main focus. I will admit that I do not have regulations in mind, while more competitive users who actually know things would. The idea of just throwing things into a Category:<character> professional page would not help single out smashers who have truly accomplished something in the SSB series metagame. Putting the top Ike main in a category with a bunch of decent Ike mains prevents him from being noticeable, as there is nothing in the category that says, "Hey, look at me! I'm important!". In addition, take a look at someone like M2K's page. People recognize him as among the top smashers in the US. Yet, nothing in his categories outside of VIP would indicate that he is at all significant. The only category to make him noticeable outside of a VIP category would be a top professional category, which would exclude several notable discoverers of techniques who have not yet to master them like those who copied the technique and made it better. The regular professional category is just full of people who can place 20th with MK, while VIP and top professional would place the people who have placed 1st often with MK and separate them from the MK mains who place low in multiple tournaments. As for the Nairo point, consider this: What makes a 15 year old different from an 18 year old? What makes a legal adult who can drink and drive different from a teenager who is not allowed to do such things without getting in trouble with authorities. Someone who's 17 would have to undergo much more judging than others, but a 15 year old simply does not have to go through that kind of judging. Finally, saying that you can disregard a point because no one has responded is heavily biased towards yourself, seeing as how the majority of the Wiki is asleep or just not capable of answering, while the competitive users are asleep for sure. MegaTron1XD 00:26, 5 October 2012 (EDT)

While I do not think discoverers of glitches should be VIPs (I discovered The Flop Block, I'm not a VIP), I do think we should Keep the category, I can see the practical use of it. Toast ltimatum 22:37, 4 October 2012 (EDT)