Chain grab: Difference between revisions
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(General cleanup for the examples section, mostly in Brawl.) |
(Addressed clean-up suggestions. See talk page.) |
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[[File:SSB64 Greenhouse Combo.gif|thumb|{{Sm|Isai}} performing the [[Greenhouse]] combo.]] | [[File:SSB64 Greenhouse Combo.gif|thumb|{{Sm|Isai}} performing the [[Greenhouse]] combo.]] | ||
The other main part of chain grabs can be seen on the "Combo Tent" portion of [[Hyrule Castle]]. {{SSB|Yoshi}} and {{SSB|Samus}} cannot do this due to their overly slow grabs (however, they can throw into a down aerial or a similar aerial to combo). {{SSB|Kirby}}, {{SSB|Ness}}, and {{SSB|Jigglypuff}} cannot do this due to their back throws having too much knockback to be able to combo before the opponent escapes [[hitstun]]. The majority requires down aerials and back throws. | The other main part of chain grabs can be seen on the "Combo Tent" portion of [[Hyrule Castle]]. {{SSB|Yoshi}} and {{SSB|Samus}} cannot do this due to their overly slow grabs (however, they can throw into a down aerial or a similar aerial to combo). {{SSB|Kirby}}, {{SSB|Ness}}, and {{SSB|Jigglypuff}} cannot do this due to their back throws having too much knockback to be able to combo before the opponent escapes [[hitstun]]. The majority requires down aerials and back throws. However, {{SSB|Pikachu}}, {{SSB|Fox}}, {{SSB|Captain Falcon}}, {{SSB|Mario}}, and {{SSB|Luigi}} can all perform chain grabs on this portion of the stage. | ||
===''[[Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''=== | ===''[[Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''=== | ||
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*{{SSBM|Ice Climbers}}: Can chain throw nearly every character in the game with hand-offs, edge throw exploits, and other traps, such as having Nana execute a down aerial as Popo down throws the opponent, forcing them to stand up and allowing them to be grabbed again. Wobbling, which is inescapable when performed right, can trap an opponent forever or until the player kills them or messes up. Even without Nana, Popo by himself can chain throw a handful of characters, such as Roy, Sheik, and Ganondorf with down throw until about 50%. | *{{SSBM|Ice Climbers}}: Can chain throw nearly every character in the game with hand-offs, edge throw exploits, and other traps, such as having Nana execute a down aerial as Popo down throws the opponent, forcing them to stand up and allowing them to be grabbed again. Wobbling, which is inescapable when performed right, can trap an opponent forever or until the player kills them or messes up. Even without Nana, Popo by himself can chain throw a handful of characters, such as Roy, Sheik, and Ganondorf with down throw until about 50%. | ||
*{{SSBM|Peach}}: Can chain throw fast fallers, floaty characters, and heavyweights at high percentages with her down throw. She can also chain grab with her up throw against everyone at 0% (briefly) and fast fallers at around 40%. | *{{SSBM|Peach}}: Can chain throw fast fallers, floaty characters, and heavyweights at high percentages with her down throw. She can also chain grab with her up throw against everyone at 0% (briefly) and fast fallers at around 40%. | ||
*{{SSBM|Captain Falcon}}: Can pseudo chain throw with down throw against Marth, Sheik, and Roy from 0% to about 20%. It can easily be escaped with good DI. Up throw can also chain throw Fox/Falco/Falcon from about 50% to about 80% | *{{SSBM|Captain Falcon}}: Can pseudo chain throw with down throw against Marth, Sheik, and Roy from 0% to about 20%. It can easily be escaped with good DI. Up throw can also chain throw Fox/Falco/Falcon from about 50% to about 80%. This chain can be escaped with DI, however. | ||
*{{SSBM|Mewtwo}}: Can chain throw with its down throw on large characters like Bowser from 0-50%. Mewtwo can also chain throw fast fallers like Fox, Falco, Sheik, Captain Falcon and sometimes Roy, giving him an advantage against these characters. | *{{SSBM|Mewtwo}}: Can chain throw with its down throw on large characters like Bowser from 0-50%. Mewtwo can also chain throw fast fallers like Fox, Falco, Sheik, Captain Falcon and sometimes Roy, giving him an advantage against these characters. | ||
*{{SSBM|Donkey Kong}}: Can chain throw Fox, Falco, and Falcon with the up throw at low to mid percentages. Donkey Kong can also chain throw Fox, Falco, and Captain Falcon with the forward throw if he connects it into his up throw. | *{{SSBM|Donkey Kong}}: Can chain throw Fox, Falco, and Falcon with the up throw at low to mid percentages. Donkey Kong can also chain throw Fox, Falco, and Captain Falcon with the forward throw if he connects it into his up throw. | ||
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*{{SSBB|Ice Climbers}}: Can chain throw with their backward, forward, and down throws on everyone except another pair of Ice Climbers. There are an excessive amount of chain grabs that the Ice Climbers can perform such as the usual alternating grabs, grab spikes, footstool grabs, release grabs, and more. An Ice Climber player can make the chain grab "infinite" and "inescapable" when the timing is 100% perfect, and can potentially do a [[zero-to-death combo]]. A lone ice climber can chain grab with down throws at lower percentages on most fast fallers like Fox. Note that if both Ice Climbers are present, they are considered to be "immune" to chain grabs, due to one climber being able to interrupt the opponent while the other is incapacitated. See [[Ice Climbers (SSBB)#Chaingrabbing and desynching|here]] for more information. | *{{SSBB|Ice Climbers}}: Can chain throw with their backward, forward, and down throws on everyone except another pair of Ice Climbers. There are an excessive amount of chain grabs that the Ice Climbers can perform such as the usual alternating grabs, grab spikes, footstool grabs, release grabs, and more. An Ice Climber player can make the chain grab "infinite" and "inescapable" when the timing is 100% perfect, and can potentially do a [[zero-to-death combo]]. A lone ice climber can chain grab with down throws at lower percentages on most fast fallers like Fox. Note that if both Ice Climbers are present, they are considered to be "immune" to chain grabs, due to one climber being able to interrupt the opponent while the other is incapacitated. See [[Ice Climbers (SSBB)#Chaingrabbing and desynching|here]] for more information. | ||
*{{SSBB|King Dedede}}: Can chain grab with his down throw by chasing the sliding opponent and re-grabbing them before they can act, against any character with a weight of 87 (Marth's weight) or heavier, with lighter and lower [[traction]] characters requiring more precise timing due to sliding farther (which in turn can limit the amount of grabs possible). Characters with a weight below 87 are knocked down instead for a tech-chase opportunity, where Dedede can grab if he reads his opponent right. He can chain grab against a wall infinitely and finish with a back throw. He does not need a wall to infinitely grab some characters, such as {{SSBB|Mario}}, {{SSBB|Luigi}}, {{SSBB|Samus}}, and {{SSBB|Donkey Kong}}, and can infinitely chain grab {{SSBB|Wolf}} and another {{SSBB|King Dedede}} over the edge of a platform or a slope, though all these characters besides DK require the down throw to be fresh enough to deal at least 6% damage for the standing grab to connect. Also, by buffering a pivot grab out of the throw, Dedede can infinite the prior two without being over an edge/slope in addition to {{SSBB|Snake}}, {{SSBB|Bowser}}, {{SSBB|Ganondorf}}, {{SSBB|Charizard}}, and {{SSBB|Ivysaur}}, though the extreme technical demands of buffering a pivot grab repeatedly led to this infinite never seeing real usage in competitive play. The down throw has [[set knockback]], so the chain throw can be performed at any percent on characters in which it is effective to use. How long it can be performed for depends on the amount of space in front of Dedede remaining on the platform he is grabbing on. Dedede can decrease the distance needed for each grab by performing a walking grab on DK and Bowser while doing a precisely-timed running shield grab instead of a dash grab against other characters. When there is no more space to continue the chain grab, Dedede players typically finish with a forward throw for decent additional damage and to set up an edge-guarding opportunity. They may opt for a back throw for greater guaranteed damage, another down throw to put the opponent into a potentially more vulnerable recovery position, or a guaranteed down tilt followup from a down throw on the characters it works on for a stronger release. Overall the damage output of the chain throw varies significantly, but it'll generally get at least 20% damage each time. | *{{SSBB|King Dedede}}: Can chain grab with his down throw by chasing the sliding opponent and re-grabbing them before they can act, against any character with a weight of 87 (Marth's weight) or heavier, with lighter and lower [[traction]] characters requiring more precise timing due to sliding farther (which in turn can limit the amount of grabs possible). Characters with a weight below 87 are knocked down instead for a tech-chase opportunity, where Dedede can grab if he reads his opponent right. He can chain grab against a wall infinitely and finish with a back throw. He does not need a wall to infinitely grab some characters, such as {{SSBB|Mario}}, {{SSBB|Luigi}}, {{SSBB|Samus}}, and {{SSBB|Donkey Kong}}, and can infinitely chain grab {{SSBB|Wolf}} and another {{SSBB|King Dedede}} over the edge of a platform or a slope, though all these characters besides DK require the down throw to be fresh enough to deal at least 6% damage for the standing grab to connect. Also, by buffering a pivot grab out of the throw, Dedede can infinite the prior two without being over an edge/slope in addition to {{SSBB|Snake}}, {{SSBB|Bowser}}, {{SSBB|Ganondorf}}, {{SSBB|Charizard}}, and {{SSBB|Ivysaur}}, though the extreme technical demands of buffering a pivot grab repeatedly led to this infinite never seeing real usage in competitive play. The down throw has [[set knockback]], so the chain throw can be performed at any percent on characters in which it is effective to use. How long it can be performed for depends on the amount of space in front of Dedede remaining on the platform he is grabbing on. Dedede can decrease the distance needed for each grab by performing a walking grab on DK and Bowser while doing a precisely-timed running shield grab instead of a dash grab against other characters. When there is no more space to continue the chain grab, Dedede players typically finish with a forward throw for decent additional damage and to set up an edge-guarding opportunity. They may opt for a back throw for greater guaranteed damage, another down throw to put the opponent into a potentially more vulnerable recovery position, or a guaranteed down tilt followup from a down throw on the characters it works on for a stronger release. Overall the damage output of the chain throw varies significantly, but it'll generally get at least 20% damage each time. | ||
*{{SSBB|Kirby}}: Can chain grab fast fallers with his down throw at low percentages. Can land a | *{{SSBB|Kirby}}: Can chain grab fast fallers with his down throw at low percentages. Can land a up-tilt between throws to add extra damage and finish with the f-throw to u-air to b-air combo. His forward throw can chain grab at low percentages too. | ||
*{{SSBB|Link}}: Can chain grab characters (most notably fast fallers) with his down throw at low percentages. Also, his forward throw can be used to chain grab to around 20%, depending on the character. | *{{SSBB|Link}}: Can chain grab characters (most notably fast fallers) with his down throw at low percentages. Also, his forward throw can be used to chain grab to around 20%, depending on the character. | ||
*{{SSBB|Lucario}}: Can chain grab fast fallers with his up throw at low percentages. Moreover, [[Force Palm]] can chain at low percentages, though DI can be used to escape it, and characters can break out of Force Palm with fast enough mashing. | *{{SSBB|Lucario}}: Can chain grab fast fallers with his up throw at low percentages. Moreover, [[Force Palm]] can chain at low percentages, though DI can be used to escape it, and characters can break out of Force Palm with fast enough mashing. | ||
*{{SSBB|Mario}} and {{SSBB|Luigi}}: Can both chain grab with their forward throw across neutral stages, but only works at lower percentages. | *{{SSBB|Mario}} and {{SSBB|Luigi}}: Can both chain grab with their forward throw across neutral stages, but only works at lower percentages. | ||
*{{SSBB|Marth}}: Can chain grab {{SSBB|Fox}} and {{SSBB|Falco}} with his forward throw 2 times (these 2 times can truly set up a tipped down air), then chain grab with his down throw 3 to 4 times, then set up a sweet-spotted forward smash for 41%-45% damage. He can also infinitely [[grab release]] on Ness and Lucas. If Ness and Lucas were air released, he could follow up by using forward and up aerials. He can also set up a guaranteed tipper forward smash after a forward throw for 25% damage on most characters at 0%. His up special, [[Dolphin Slash]], can help him escape from most chain grabs (except Dedede's running chain grab, Falco's chain grab when buffered dash grab, though it limits it to 3 grabs and Ice Climbers' Infinite Chain Grab). | *{{SSBB|Marth}}: Can chain grab {{SSBB|Fox}} and {{SSBB|Falco}} with his forward throw 2 times (these 2 times can truly set up a tipped down air), then chain grab with his down throw 3 to 4 times, then set up a sweet-spotted forward smash for 41%-45% damage. He can also infinitely [[grab release]] on Ness and Lucas. If Ness and Lucas were air released, he could follow up by using forward and up aerials. He can also set up a guaranteed tipper forward smash after a forward throw for 25% damage on most characters at 0%. His up special, [[Dolphin Slash]], can help him escape from most chain grabs (except Dedede's running chain grab, Falco's chain grab when buffered dash grab, though it limits it to 3 grabs and Ice Climbers' Infinite Chain Grab). | ||
*{{SSBB|Peach}}: Can dash grab Ness and Lucas across the stage. She can also chain grab with down throws, turning around to grab the opponent against about half of the cast. She can set up | *{{SSBB|Peach}}: Can dash grab Ness and Lucas across the stage. She can also chain grab with down throws, turning around to grab the opponent against about half of the cast. She can set up back aerial (almost every character and it must be buffered), up tilt, forward tilt or a pair string combo(must be buffered with a dash). She can also chain grab heavies with her forward throw at low percentages provided that one buffers a dash grab. She can infinitely chain grab air release Wario as well, by using a footstool jump on him upon release, followed by a float without using a midair jump, then a fast fall down aerial without the fourth kick landing, and ending with a grab. | ||
*{{SSBB|Pikachu}}: Can chain grab most characters by using dash grabs out of its forward throw, up to mid-percentages or until it runs out of space on the stage. It can additionally chain grab with its down throw by just repeated buffered standing grabs, with it not working as well as the forward throw on more floaty characters while being especially severe on characters with fast falling-acceleration. In particular, it works on the [[space animal]]s and {{SSBB|Captain Falcon}} until damages as high as 115% if it gets staled enough, which can then lead to an unavoidable up smash followup that can then lead to a [[Thunder]] KO, resulting in potentially a zero-death. Pikachu can also alternate between the two throws with a pummel to control [[Stale-Move Negation]], though generally, a Pikachu player would try to extend the length of the down throw chain throw by keeping it as stable as possible. Pikachu can also chain grab Wario on a ledge until 120%. | *{{SSBB|Pikachu}}: Can chain grab most characters by using dash grabs out of its forward throw, up to mid-percentages or until it runs out of space on the stage. It can additionally chain grab with its down throw by just repeated buffered standing grabs, with it not working as well as the forward throw on more floaty characters while being especially severe on characters with fast falling-acceleration. In particular, it works on the [[space animal]]s and {{SSBB|Captain Falcon}} until damages as high as 115% if it gets staled enough, which can then lead to an unavoidable up smash followup that can then lead to a [[Thunder]] KO, resulting in potentially a zero-death. Pikachu can also alternate between the two throws with a pummel to control [[Stale-Move Negation]], though generally, a Pikachu player would try to extend the length of the down throw chain throw by keeping it as stable as possible. Pikachu can also chain grab Wario on a ledge until 120%. | ||
*{{SSBB|Sheik}}: Can air release most characters. With correct timing, she can follow up with [[Needle Storm]], forward, up tilts or another dash grab at a low percentage. At high percentage, she can follow with up smash (with jump canceled up smash or DACUS), forward and neutral aerials for a KO or another dash grab. She can also ground release Ness and Lucas and then dash grab. If Ness and Lucas were air released, she can follow up by using forward and neutral aerials or up smash (by using jump canceled up smash or DACUS) at a high percentage. | *{{SSBB|Sheik}}: Can air release most characters. With correct timing, she can follow up with [[Needle Storm]], forward, up tilts or another dash grab at a low percentage. At high percentage, she can follow with up smash (with jump canceled up smash or DACUS), forward and neutral aerials for a KO or another dash grab. She can also ground release Ness and Lucas and then dash grab. If Ness and Lucas were air released, she can follow up by using forward and neutral aerials or up smash (by using jump canceled up smash or DACUS) at a high percentage. | ||
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===''Super Smash Bros. 4''=== | ===''Super Smash Bros. 4''=== | ||
In ''Super Smash Bros. 4'', a new mechanic was introduced, where after escaping from a grab or being thrown, characters are immune to any grabs for one second, as mentioned in one of the [[tips]] (although this period is actually 70 frames, which is 10 frames longer than one second). This change makes chain grabs virtually impossible to perform, and it seems that this measure has been implemented as a direct counter to this technique from previous games, given its controversy. [[Special move]]s involving grabs, such as {{SSB4|Lucario}}'s [[Force Palm]] and {{SSB4|Kirby}}'s {{b|Inhale|Kirby}}, are also affected by this mechanic; this is more noticeable with the latter, causing the opponent to pass through Kirby without being swallowed if he uses the move again on them immediately after releasing them from it. However, if a player can keep an opponent stuck in [[hitstun]] after being thrown with other attacks over this immunity period, it's possible to grab the opponent before they can react and set up a pseudo-chain grab. {{SSB4|Luigi}}, {{SSB4|Ness}}, {{SSB4|Sheik}}, and {{SSB4|Roy}} are examples of characters with notable combos involving this. Additionally, {{SSB4|Donkey Kong}}'s cargo throws do not count by the game as grabs for this mechanic, allowing him to still chain grab opponents with his cargo down throw from low to mid percents when on a moving platform (such as [[Smashville]]'s) or against a wall. | In ''Super Smash Bros. 4'', a new mechanic was introduced, where after escaping from a grab or being thrown, characters are immune to any grabs for one second, as mentioned in one of the [[tips]] (although this period is actually 70 frames, which is 10 frames longer than one second). This change makes chain grabs virtually impossible to perform, and it seems that this measure has been implemented as a direct counter to this technique from previous games, given its controversy. [[Special move]]s involving grabs, such as {{SSB4|Lucario}}'s [[Force Palm]] and {{SSB4|Kirby}}'s {{b|Inhale|Kirby}}, are also affected by this mechanic; this is more noticeable with the latter, causing the opponent to pass through Kirby without being swallowed if he uses the move again on them immediately after releasing them from it. However, if a player can keep an opponent stuck in [[hitstun]] after being thrown with other attacks over this immunity period, it's possible to grab the opponent before they can react and set up a pseudo-chain grab. {{SSB4|Luigi}}, {{SSB4|Ness}}, {{SSB4|Sheik}}, and {{SSB4|Roy}} are examples of characters with notable combos involving this. Additionally, {{SSB4|Donkey Kong}}'s cargo throws do not count by the game as grabs for this mechanic, allowing him to still chain grab opponents with his cargo down throw from low to mid percents when on a moving platform (such as [[Smashville]]'s) or against a wall. | ||
==Video== | ==Video== | ||
