Editing User talk:Mariogeek2

==Inaccurate source==
The source you've been using for frame data has a lot of incorrect information that I've just tested myself. Certain animations start on frame 1, others on frame 0. The frame data reported on the moves starting on frame 0 are early by a frame due to not counting frame 0 despite it showing up. Mario Jab 3, as an example, is indeed active on frames 5-9 with 22 total frames, because its animation has frame 0. In the future please do not use that website as a source. [[User:Zeckemyro|Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck]] ([[User talk:Zeckemyro|talk]]) 23:31, July 12, 2024 (EDT)

== Missing data ==

First, big thanks for making articles for the missing hitboxes. It's a large task that not many have the time and/or data to work through.

Second, if you want to get the data that your sources haven't been listing (such as bone and radius), you could look into HSDRaw/HSDLib. It requires you to have the files from the ROM to use it, but it will show you every bit of information you could need for the articles. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 18:55, October 28, 2024 (EDT)
:1) Thank you so much! (⁄ ⁄•⁄ω⁄•⁄ ⁄)⁄  It's nice to know your contributions are actually helpful.

:2) I have the ROM. I've mostly been using ikneedata.com/calculator (and smashboards when that was insufficient) for the hitbox data; I attempted to install [https://smashboards.com/threads/tool-master-hand-v1-20-melee-character-file-viewer.313930/ Master Hand] on Wine (I'm daily driving Linux bc I dislike Windows), but ran into some difficulties. I was going to try and compile it from source, but that'd mean I would have to download Mono, which I was planning on doing but just never got around to. I'll check those tools out. Will I have to extract the character/data files from the ROM using another tool, or will HSD-Raw+Lib work straight directly on the ROM? [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 23:23, October 29, 2024 (EDT)
::HSDRaw needs the individual files. Looks like Master Hand also needs the individual files. Crazy Hand is more recent than MH and can work with just the ISO/ROM, though HSDRaw is even more recent, has more features, and has more things identified (one being the "adjust hitbox size" function). If you can get Dolphin to run, it can extract the files for you. Just add your ISO/ROM to its list, right-click>Properties, Filesystem tab, then you can extract individual files or the whole disc. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 06:21, October 30, 2024 (EDT)

== Template testing ==

Making a subpage for a template like you did with {{t|Attributes}} generally isn't how we test out templates. Typically you'd make a userpage (such as User:Mariogeek2/Attributes) and test with that either on another userpage or in the [[SW:SAND|sandbox]]--you'd have to use the full title (<nowiki>{{User:Mariogeek2/Attributes}}</nowiki>) to use it. This way you can make sure it works the way you want without potentially causing issues in mainspace articles.

I went and added the new stat to the main template with it only showing if the value is entered so it doesn't cause a mess on articles that don't have the info added yet. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 20:52, November 26, 2024 (EST)
:I didn't know that you could do optional fields in templates, so I was hesitant to edit the Attribute template for the reason you described (making a mess); I ''also'' didn't know that you could use pages '''not''' in the template namespace as templates, nor how to do so. I just assumed that a page had to be in the template namespace to work, so I followed the convention Wikipedia uses, such as this page [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Search_box/sandbox here]. Thanks for the info again! [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 23:39, November 26, 2024 (EST)

== Regarding for fighter templates on boss pages ==

Heya - just saw that edit. I'd recommend clarifying them as "hacked-playable" or some equivalent like with [[Rayquaza]] for example. This emphasises that they're not usually playable, it's very important. - [[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #4952eb;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #4952eb;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 12:51, December 14, 2024 (EST)
:I knew the template wasn't exactly "correct", just wasn't sure which template was appropriate, and that seemed like the best one. [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 12:56, December 14, 2024 (EST) (I always forget to sign. Y must I be dis way?)
::For example - "''This article is about Rayquaza's debug-playable appearance in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. For the character in other contexts, see Rayquaza.''" is used on the Rayquaza SSBB page. I imagine you could use something similar in a vice-versa case. However, I recall OmegaTyrant being abrasive about them being prevalent on the wiki. If possible, ask him on the server. - [[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #4952eb;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #4952eb;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 12:57, December 14, 2024 (EST)
:::I'm assuming you're referring to the Discord server; in which case, I've never been on. Is there a public link somewhere? Also, to address the point of the "reverse playable appearance/other contexts" issue, it may just be worth it to create a "forboss" or "fornpc" temp., just like how there's a "Boss" and "Infobox Character General" temp.'s, which are both pretty similar. [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 13:07, December 14, 2024 (EST) (I remembered to sign this time).
:::: Aye, I'd agree, at least if we want to go the route of having such headers. I think they could be helpful at least. Go to [[SW:DISC]] and all you'll need will be there. I'm not on there these days, strictly a wikigoer, me. Hope this helps! - [[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #4952eb;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #4952eb;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 13:09, December 14, 2024 (EST)
::::: Appreciate the help :D [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 13:12, December 14, 2024 (EST)

==Throw hitboxs==

looking at the list u sent me, r we sure we need *every* throw as gifs ? there are only so many w/ hitboxes and i feel adding the ones that dont would be redundant and kinda pointless. this extends to koopa klaw bthrow as that doesnt have a hitbox either. also thinking about just straight up removing mewtwos up and back throw gifs from his page as they, again, dont have any hitboxes . these are *hitbox* visualizations after all - [[User talk:Variaamaxxing|alex]][[User:Variaamaxxing|Variaa]] [[File:FalcoHeadRedSSBM.png|20px]][[File:FoxHeadRedSSBM.png|20px]] 21:32, December 27, 2024 (EST)
:If you don't think we need any specific throw hitbox gifs, you don't have to do them; I just put them so high for two reasons: 1) to be consistent with the other hitbox repositories in the other games, basically every one of them has the entire collection of throws, as can be seen in DK's [[Donkey Kong (SSBB)/Hitboxes|hitbox repo for ''Brawl'']], and 2) because even if a throw doesn't have a hitbox programmed for the attacker's body, all of them (as far as I'm aware) in ''Melee'' have a '''collateral hitbox''' tied to the thrown opponent, as well as some number of [[invincibility]] frames and/or hurtbox contortions for the thrower. For example, Mewtwo's up throw in ''Melee'' launches the opponent straight up but the thrown victim (Mario in the gif) knocks opponents back with the Sakurai angle. This doesn't usually come up in singles (with the exception of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFx5g7vRNPg&t=264s | Shy Guys on Yoshi's Story]), but is pretty important in doubles.<br>(EDIT) Also wanted to let you know I saw that you added Raptor Boost and Peach Bomber gifs, and that I appreciate it :D. However, do you mind if I edit them? They're kinda fast compared to the other gifs, so I was gonna slow the frame rate down to make them more in-line. [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 20:02, December 29, 2024 (EST)
::ya u can edit them idm ! i prob wont end up doing every throw as gifs unless they have IFrames or hitboxes of their own like u said cuz every throw in the game does cause the collateral hitbox on the throwee. thx for the info tho , have a good 1 ! - [[User talk:Variaamaxxing|alex]][[User:Variaamaxxing|Variaa]] [[File:FalcoHeadRedSSBM.png|20px]][[File:FoxHeadRedSSBM.png|20px]] 20:48, December 29, 2024 (EST)

== Smash 4 data ==

If you want the finer details for Smash 4 hitboxes, use [https://rubendal.github.io/Sm4sh-Calculator/scripts.html Ruben's script search] along with the [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FgOsGYfTD4nQo4jFGJ22nz5baU1xihT5lreNinY5nNQ/edit?gid=571690031#gid=571690031 Sm4sh params spreadsheet] (a lot just list the hex value instead of a name, so you'll have to look it up). For a few things you'll need to disable the "Only show scripts with hitboxes" box, such as for Peach's vegetables (peachdaikon). Ruben also has the [https://rubendal.github.io/Smash4-Data/#/Character Smash 4 Data Viewer] which is a little more readable, though it doesn't have items. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 17:12, June 27, 2025 (EDT)
:Wow, '''thanks'''! This'll definitely make things a lot easier when doing hitboxes for Sm4sh. Yeah, I'm used to hex/binary stuff by now, so that shouldn't be too major an issue. I really appreciate it, thank you for all the hard work and help! ❤️ [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 17:23, June 27, 2025 (EDT)
::For Smash 64, give this a look (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hzdpZyG5f4A3gr0-PXYqUxfTDs76RsBq36YiCQJvbD8/edit). It's basically the raw scripts in a spreadsheet. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 16:24, June 29, 2025 (EDT)
:::👍 Appreciated again :D [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 17:02, June 29, 2025 (EDT)
::::"But wait there's more". [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1si8fAid0spEfguF-LW44eITCoVY6mQdvNZfbozejceU/edit I made this spreadsheet] for Brawl, partly to make the hitbox tables easier and partly to give both a broader and more precise view of the scripts (without having to reinvent what BrawlLib does). May want to cross reference with other sources if you use it for timing or really anything beyond hitboxes. There are some hitboxes that aren't parsed at the moment (like searchboxes) but the bulk should be there. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 11:59, July 4, 2025 (EDT)
:::::Thank you '''so much!''' I really appreciate it. Like you said, I can cross-reference with Rukai Data, but I really appreciate it since, for whatever reason, Rukai Data doesn't have prop data, so this makes making hitbox tables for projectiles ''possible'' now! ❤️ [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 12:24, July 4, 2025 (EDT)

== Regarding your non-specials project ==

Your project was brought up on the discord server and the (limited) response is that they don't seem necessary. That doesn't mean that they won't ever be allowed to be mainspaced, but before moving them you may want to consider making a proposal, either for the idea in general in the Forums or for each individually on their talk pages. Also using maintenance templates on userpages is discouraged, similar to userpages not being allowed to have categories. Similarly if an image is used ''only'' in userpages, the only category it gets is [[:Category:User images]]--if it is used anywhere in mainspace it can use normal categories. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 19:06, July 23, 2025 (EDT)
:*I have to admit, it wasn't really done because I thought they '''needed''' to exist, mostly just because I thought they'd be cool (and also because there's blatantly obvious examples IMO, like the Slant Paralyzer and Volcano Kick, but that's besides the point). I'll probably do per-page talk page proposals, rather than a single Forum proposal, since I think it'd be best to argue the merits for each individual move, but I'm not 100% sure; if you think a Forum post would be the better option, then I'll probably do that.
:*Regarding the image categories, if that's what the wiki rules are, then I guess that's what they are, and I can replace them with ''User images'' if need be; however, I must admit that that policy doesn't make much sense to me (at least for images which are actually game-relevant/screenshots, images like [[:File:Starban.jpg]] deserve their ''User image'' category); I don't know what your experience is trying to search and see if there's an image that fits your needs already on the wiki, but, anecdotally, it's a mess: naming conventions are either very loosely held to or just nonexistent, whether or not an image uses a game-specific move category (like [[:Category:Down aerials (SSB4)]] or a game-agnostic one (like [[:Category:Down aerials]]) is a complete dice roll, and a lot of them only have a single category when they deserve +3. Not being able to find an image you might need because it was stuck in some user-page somewhere, with no other way to find it, is a genuinely frustrating experience (admittedly, this is probably a very niche issue; it's just been a big thorn in my side.); I'd ''like'' to leave the images I've uploaded with their current categories, but if the rules are going to be enforced, then I'd rather it be me to fix them then an admin.
:*If at all possible, I'd like to leave the maintenance templates on the pages, simply because there's some things that I either can't get myself or would require a significant time investment that would be much easier for certain other users (such as non-native-English speakers who own different language versions of SSBU, I'm ''assuming'' the moves are named the tips like they are for the NA release, or Ultimate screenshots since I don't own the game ): ), but, like the image categories, I'd be willing to remove them if the rules are non-negotiable. 
:[[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 21:46, July 24, 2025 (EDT)
::Addendum: My 2nd bullet point wasn't too clear and kind of rambly, so, to be clear, I'm not saying that there's an overload of images to search through that makes it difficult to search; rather, because of the factors I mentioned, it's difficult to confirm that an image you need doesn't already exist on the wiki, and that, in my personal opinion, not being able to use category search to find user-page-only images worsens that issue. If an image '''has''' to be on a non-user page to have categories, then could I just add them to their respective fighter pages' galleries? Like, just put [[:File:MarioMeteorKnuckleSSBU.jpg]] in [[Mario (SSBU)]]'s gallery section? Also, to add a little to my third bullet point, I'm trying to let the pages cook as much as possible before I move them to main so they'll meet the other move pages' quality; if that means that I need help from other users, then I'd like their help as much as possible :) [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 13:21, July 26, 2025 (EDT)
:::For your second point, our [[SmashWiki:Images|image policy states that "an article having a gallery is not a free pass to upload whatever images you have that happen to be related to the article's subject; any images uploaded to the gallery should demonstrate something relevant and noteworthy to the article that no other existing image on the page does."—that is to say, if any of the images you've uploaded for this project can ''work'' in the mainspace, then those are fine, and if not, then they should be categorized in the userspace until they enter the mainspace.
:::For your third point, maintenance templates are reserved for the mainspace because that's where the wiki's priorities lie. Adding them to a userpage, regardless of whether or not it intends to be mainspaced, conflates things in the categories those templates automatically add to a page they're assigned to—this is also the reason why we don't allow categories in the userspace either. If you still want assistance with your project, then what you ''can'' do is use {{t|draft}} as a general "hey, this page is likely to be mainspaced, so if you happen to see it, feel free to help out" message, and you can use {{t|notice}} to indicate specifics where necessary. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]] [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Gamer'''</span>]] 14:14, July 26, 2025 (EDT)
::::Understood. Thank you for weighing in on this matter 👍 [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 14:22, July 26, 2025 (EDT)

== Smash 4 items ==

For data on Smash 4 items they're in Ruben's [https://rubendal.github.io/Sm4sh-Calculator/scripts.html script viewer]. In the dropdown go to the bottom after Zero Suit and there's a single option for every item. Then the scripts will be prefixed by the item name. They use their codenames so you may need to look for their JP name; Mechakoopa is just "mechakoopa" but Mr. Saturn is "doseisan". They also don't have names for the actual scripts so you'll need to cross-reference with other sources/testing to get the right one. Otherwise converting to wiki hitbox is the same as doing a fighter. For Ultimate there is a tab for items in Ruben's data viewer. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 19:13, April 6, 2026 (UTC)
:Ahh, thank you! I had discovered that when working on Peach's Veggies, just forgot about it 🤦 - I was hung up on looking for them in the character pages, because in my mind it was just "Oh it's a projectile, so that means it's a prop, so it '''should''' be under the character page, but it isn't!" Now I know why, and it makes total sense. Now that I know that, should be easy enough to find by cross-referencing the damage + knockback values. [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2#top|talk]]) 19:34, April 6, 2026 (UTC)
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