Editing Template talk:TrophyTableRow

==Discuss.==
I implemented this over [[List of SSB4 trophies (Duck Hunt series)|here]]. I think it works pretty good. Any objections? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Superlative 18:25, 6 October 2014 (EDT)
:I like it. It makes things simpler and easier to do than what we do now with the trophy descriptions. I'd add it on all the trophy pages if I wanted to. <font face="AmericanTypewriter">[[User: Rtzxy|<span style="color:darkorange;">Rtzxy</span>]] [[File:SmashSig.jpeg]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:blue;">Smashing!</span>]]</font> 18:28, 6 October 2014 (EDT)

== Usage ==

Why exactly are the trophy tables in [[List of SSB4 trophies (Pikmin series)|some pages]] being merged regardless of version? I think a Both, 3DS only, Wii U only setup would be vastly preferable, more like [[List of SSB4 trophies (Mega Man series)|here]]. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 20:30, 3 December 2014 (EST)
:I think having three sections is clunky and makes it more difficult to find a particular trophy. A single list seems simpler overall; I'm not sure what advantages there are to keeping them split. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Eggster 21:18, 3 December 2014 (EST)
::I strongly disagree. It was easier when the trophies were sorted by version. Also alphabetically really isn't the way to go here I don't think, I preferred it when Duck Hunt was on top even though Clay Pigeon is higher alphabetically. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small> 21:25, 3 December 2014 (EST)
::The advantages are clearer delineation between what trophies are available in which version without having to re-sort the table multiple times, and there's not really any loss in terms of navigability by keeping the tables split since people can always Ctrl-F (or equivalent). [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:11, 3 December 2014 (EST)
:I prefer the separate lists as well. It seems really weird to list them in a different order than they appear in-game. [[User:Tepig|Tepig]] ([[User talk:Tepig|talk]]) 21:42, 3 December 2014 (EST)

See this is my thought process with the issue:
#We can't have two lists. Since all trophies I know of have the same description between games, there'd be tons of duplication.
#We can't have three lists. It wouldn't be possible for someone to quickly get a list of "all the Wii U trophies", because they're split across non-consecutive sections.
#Therefore, we should have one list.
I suspect we could re-sort to in-game ordering without too much of a problem, unless there's a sorting difference for the same trophies between the two games. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Brass 22:43, 3 December 2014 (EST)

Also, I don't see how re-sorting a single table is a problem; on the contrary, I think it's a very clean way to have one solution for multiple use cases. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Bold 23:07, 3 December 2014 (EST)
:"We can't have three lists. It wouldn't be possible for someone to quickly get a list of "all the Wii U trophies", because they're split across non-consecutive sections."
:That is quite easily accomplished by simply reading two sections, the "both" and "Wii U-only" sections. How is that a problem? It's much more intuitive than having to filter out rows of a combined table, even a sortable one (especially given you're seemingly advocating not sorting it that way by default). [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:40, 3 December 2014 (EST)
::I strongly suspect that the average player does not care whether a trophy is in both versions or not, but rather cares about having a list they can glance at to determine which trophies they are missing in a single game. With three lists, such a person will have to continuously flip back and forth between the top and middle/bottom of the page (or the in-game trophy list).
::Given the above, in-game sort would be much better than alphabetical sort. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] El Pollo 01:04, 4 December 2014 (EST)
:::It looks much neater how it is on pages like [[List of SSB4 trophies (Fire Emblem series)|this one]]. I've never liked alphabetical sorting with this sort of thing, and it's more natural to click on the ToC to see the 3DS exclusive trophies then to click on that arrow. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small> 11:14, 6 December 2014 (EST)
:"We can't have two lists. Since all trophies I know of have the same description between games, there'd be tons of duplication."
::What duplication? The trophies that are on multiple versions appear in only one table, not all of them. And actually, some trophies do have different descriptons between versions, such as the Luigi and Bowser ones. [[User:Tepig|Tepig]] ([[User talk:Tepig|talk]]) 15:23, 7 December 2014 (EST)
:::Obviously, if we had two lists, they would be "is in 3DS" and "is in Wii U", so a bunch of trophies would appear in both lists and so have duplicated descriptions.
:::Anyway, okay so there are apparently some trophies that have different descriptions (and shop prices) between games. The current way to deal with this (up to four descriptions in one table cell) is crap; there has to be something better. We still can't move to two lists because having different descriptions between games is the exception rather than the rule. I'm still of the extremely strong opinion that three lists is an asinine idea for previously-stated reasons. And one list is going to look cluttered no matter what we do. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Labbie 15:35, 7 December 2014 (EST)
Here's what I think we should do: split the pages between 3DS trophies and Wii U trophies. The pages are overly large as of now (the Super Mario Bros. trophies page itself is over 92,000 bytes), and they're still not incomplete. Sure, some trophies will be duplicated, but some trophies also have different descriptions between the two versions. I also think listing the trophies alphabetically is a bad idea, and should instead be listed in the order the game lists them. <font face="Marker Felt">[[User:Rtzxy|<span style="color:red;">Rtzxy</span>]] [[File:Reflect.jpg|20x20px]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:green;">''Reflect!''</span>]]</font> 15:41, 7 December 2014 (EST)
::[[List of SSB4 trophies (Super Smash Bros. series)|This page]] has three lists. Originally, the trophies that appear in both versions were in all three tables. But I changed it so that the ones that appear in both versions are only in the first table, but have pics from both versions. I think it looks nice this way. [[User:Tepig|Tepig]] ([[User talk:Tepig|talk]]) 15:42, 7 December 2014 (EST)
:::That's solving the wrong problem, in my opinion. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Boss 15:48, 7 December 2014 (EST)

A full per-game split has previous support from [[Talk:List of SSB4 trophies (Super Mario Bros. series)|here]], but is a double-edged sword - Xenoblade only has 4 3DS trophies, for example. I'd be okay with such a split for all SSB4 trophy pages despite this. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Boss 15:48, 7 December 2014 (EST)
:While I prefer the way I did it, splitting the pages seems like a good idea. [[User:Tepig|Tepig]] ([[User talk:Tepig|talk]]) 15:53, 7 December 2014 (EST)
::<s>i'm pretty sure you're the only one against three lists Toomai</s> If it's so impossible to have three lists, splitting them works for me too. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small> 16:55, 9 December 2014 (EST)
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 :While I prefer the way I did it, splitting the pages seems like a good idea. [[User:Tepig|Tepig]] ([[User talk:Tepig|talk]]) 15:53, 7 December 2014 (EST)
 ::<s>i'm pretty sure you're the only one against three lists Toomai</s> If it's so impossible to have three lists, splitting them works for me too. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small> 16:55, 9 December 2014 (EST)
-Another reason that occurred to me to retain a three-list setup: sortable tables clashes with the usage of {{t|Anchor}} like we do on Melee trophy lists. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 09:58, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-:How so? The point of the anchors is so certain links/redirects can direct the user to a specific table row upon loading the page, and sortability can only come into effect after the page is loaded and the user scrolls to the top. (This assumes we add the anchor ability to this template, which is indeed a good idea.) [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Chronicler 10:10, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-::Because the whole point of the anchor is that it's to a consistent place on the page, not a variable one. This is a lesser reason, though; I still think the strongest point is still that this template is a) harder to navigate than having subsections and b) less immediately clear about what trophies appear in which versions. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 10:15, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-:::It's still a fixed point on the page; the user just has the option to temporarily charge it when they get there. Unless there's anchored links on the page itself that the user clicks on after sorting, there's never any practical change in anchor position.
-:::Also, this template will eventually be used on all trophy list pages, no question about it. The question is whether to remove the dual-image ability due to the strong support for splitting all the SSB4 trophy pages. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Riotous 10:28, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-::::Neither of those is optimal, though. The three-list setup is significantly better because it allows direct comparison between trophies in both versions, plus separate lists for trophies exclusive to either version. Looking at a page like [[List of SSB4 trophies (Pac-Man series)|the Pac-Man list]], I'm baffled as to why you would encourage any other format. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 10:32, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-:::::Let me reiterate my two most important points:
-:::::#Some trophies have different descriptions and prices between games. As seen [[List of SSB4 trophies (Super Mario Bros. series)|here]], this leads to a huge mess.
-:::::#When it comes to lists of collectibles in games, players typically ask these questions: "Am I missing anything?" "Is X in this game?" "How many of these are there?" "Can I look at this thing I'll never get?" If we assume that the average casual player does not own both versions of the game, they may not care at all about anything to do with the other version, including whether a trophy is in both games. Even if they did want to know whether X is in both games, how is that useful information? I have no idea.
-:::::I strongly believe that "Am I missing anything?" is the most common question users ask for this kind of thing. Having three lists is the worst possible solution to this question and only really solves "Is this in both games", which I also believe is both the least common and the least useful. It doesn't look too bad for the Pac-Man series, but nothing looks too bad for lists that short. The Mario series list is a prime example of bad user experience - you want a list of all the Wii U trophies? Have fun skipping between two different thirds of the page. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Resolute 10:53, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-::::::I think it's far easier to navigate through two smaller tables than trying to sort and decipher a larger, unwieldy table; additionally, it's inconvenient to split the information across two pages when so much overlaps. With those in mind, I am having a hard time finding your argument persuasive. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 11:48, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-:::::::You are arguing for presenting things in the format "1, 3; null, null; 2, 4". How does that make sense? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Keymaster 13:19, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-::::::::It's really more like "AB, A, B". [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:23, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-:::::::::You misunderstood. If a user wants to know what trophies they have and are missing, they'll attempt to compare a list they find on the internet with the list they have in-game. The list they have in game will be in the order "1, 2, 3, 4". The list we're currently providing is (potentially) in the order "1, 3; null, null; 2, 4", where "null" means "is not in this game". I know if I was looking for such a list and found this, I'd leave and find something else that provides the in-game sort. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Producer 13:40, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-::::::::::What you're proposing is even worse in that regard, though, so I'm not really understanding your point. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:41, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-Okay resetting indent just to be clear: For various reasons, I no longer think the one-list path is viable. My current opinion is that we must split the pages, resulting in two lists (one per page). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Metroid 13:45, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-:That's less problematic, but it still seems like an unnecessary duplication of content and makes it harder to compare between versions. For example, the different "Character (Alt.)" trophies have the same description between versions but different colors and poses. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:48, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-:I agree with this. If I had Smash 3DS and wanted to kow what trophies I was missing, I would prefer a page that lists all trophies in that specific game, not a page with three lists or a page with a single list that includes trophies that aren't even in the game I have. [[File:TepigSprite.png]][[User:Tepig|Tepig]] ([[User talk:Tepig|talk]]) 13:51, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-::I agree that it's not perfect, but there is no perfect solution. There is however a potential migitator for the duplication issue - transclusion. We could store the duplicated descriptions in a subpage and simply include them in both pages, like how Pikipedia does Olimar's logs. If having one page per description doesn't work out, we could have a template per series, which inputs the trophy name and outputs the description; it'd be harder to edit, but it may never need to be. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Sharp 13:58, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-:::Okay, let me examine this and think while typing thus making for a very confusing message followed by a TL;DR.
-:::If I only own the 3DS version, I probably don't care what trophies are in the Wii U version. Having to look at two different sections to find what I'm looking for might be rather irritating to me. At the same, looking at one list that contains both with no clear way of finding just the 3DS would be just as irritating. Thus, for people who only own one version, having split pages would be the best thing. It would be like combining all of the trophy lists to the people who have no intention of owning the other version.
-:::If I own both versions (which I do), I want to see every trophy. Looking at three different lists is pretty useful, because then I can see which trophies are in the 3DS version that I need to collect and also which trophies are in the Wii U that I need to collect, and know which ones are in each version (that way I don't try to find Tempo's trophy on the Wii U). Looking at one list probably still accomplishes this, but not as well. Going to two different pages might be a little more difficult, but it would be the same as going to the Melee page for my Melee trophies and the Brawl for my Brawl. You'd just have to consider each games their own game.
-:::I '''support''' a split, I'm '''neutral''' to three lists, and I '''strongly oppose''' one list. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small> 16:10, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-::::What's the decision? <span style="color:red">LOOK ITS RED</span> ([[User:Nutta Butta|hi im nutta]]) 18:25, 30 December 2014 (EST)
-== Differences between Wii U and 3DS trophy descriptions ==
-Some characters have slightly different trophy descriptions between games (such as [[Sheik]] and [[Luigi]]). Should this template be changed to reflect that? In the two I listed, Sheik's Wii U trophy says spoiler alert and Luigi's says "100% Weegee". {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 11:21, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-:We need to figure if we're splitting the pages first; if so, we won't need to do so. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Pan-Galactic 13:15, 17 December 2014 (EST)
-== bg color ==
-Could the code be modified to take the background color into effect for both trophy images if two are specified? I attempted it myself but I always have a tendency to butcher table code, let alone table code with if statements. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 03:13, 2 March 2015 (EST)
-== It's too complicated for me to do it... ==
-But this should include a trophy box paramater. [[User:Serpent_King|<span style="color:#008833; text-shadow:-1px -1px #00bb77;">'''Serpent King'''</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent_King|(<span style="color: blue;">talk</span>)]] 21:59, 14 July 2015 (EDT)
-== N/A for price ==
-I've been adding some of the missing prices to the SSB4 trophy tables. But there are some trophies that can't be bought, so it would be nice to have something for the "price" parameters that will display "N/A". I'm familiar enough with wikicode to add that, but I don't know how to make it '''''not''''' display the Play Coin icon as well. For now I will just put a question mark for the non-purchased trophies, but that kind of implies they ''have'' a price but we don't know what it is. [[User:HelpTheWretched|HelpTheWretched]] ([[User talk:HelpTheWretched|talk]]) 18:47, March 4, 2021 (EST)
-:I think I made it to do what you asked. Just set either ssb4-wiiu-price or ssb4-3ds-price to N/A (only one though, setting the other breaks it) and it will show N/A with no icon. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 19:14, March 4, 2021 (EST)
-::That is great, but it seems to have messed up any tables that don't have a '''Price''' column. I'd rather not just add that column to every table since there may be cases where it's not wanted? [[User:HelpTheWretched|HelpTheWretched]] ([[User talk:HelpTheWretched|talk]]) 19:27, March 4, 2021 (EST)
-:::Heck. Are there any cases where 3ds-price is N/A and there is a wiiu-price? If not I can just move the ifeq to only the 3ds-price part and it seems to work with other tables. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 19:39, March 4, 2021 (EST)
-:::Yep, fighters' (Alt.) trophies are N/A on 3DS and bought in the shop on Wii U. There might be other cases but I don't know of any. [[User:HelpTheWretched|HelpTheWretched]] ([[User talk:HelpTheWretched|talk]]) 22:10, March 4, 2021 (EST)
-::::I think the change I made should allow for N/A on 3DS and amount on Wii U. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 22:32, March 4, 2021 (EST)
-:::::Thanks for looking into this, and I'm sorry to keep bugging about it, but there are a couple issues. You can see on [[List of SSB4 trophies (Super Mario Bros. series)]], I've added the column of empty prices to the Both Versions table, then tried using N/A on the two Mario trophies at the top.
-:::::*If there prices for both versions, the 3DS icon still doesn't appear.
-:::::*If the price for Wii U is N/A, it still adds " G".
-:::::*Not shown, but if we only enter a Wii U price, then not only does it still show a blank 3DS price, but the Wii U icon is missing!
-:::::I think it may be easier to re-write this portion of the code from scratch than to try fixing each case. And again, I wish I could do that; I have a lot of programming experience but am still learning the wiki code syntax. If it can store and modify strings before writing them, then it should be easy, but if it can't write strings then the logic should go like:
-:::::#If both price parameters are present, place the 3DS icon and colon.
-:::::#If a 3DS price is present, write it.
-:::::#If the 3DS price is ''NOT'' "N/A", then add " G" and the corresponding Play Coins, plus line break.
-:::::#If both parameters are present, place the Wii U icon and colon.
-:::::#If a Wii U price is present, write it.
-:::::#If the Wii U price is not "N/A", then add " G".
-:::::[[User:HelpTheWretched|HelpTheWretched]] ([[User talk:HelpTheWretched|talk]]) 00:46, March 6, 2021 (EST)
-::::::I made a mock-up [[Special:PermanentLink/1543732|here in my sandbox]], does that do everything that is needed? I also added some pseudo-code comments into it to help both of us make sense of it. I also removed uses of non-breaking spaces because they are effectively ignored when next to images; replaced it with a CSS style that works. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 07:28, March 6, 2021 (EST)
-:::::::That's excellent! Thanks again. [[User:HelpTheWretched|HelpTheWretched]] ([[User talk:HelpTheWretched|talk]]) 21:37, March 7, 2021 (EST)
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