Editing Talk:Princess Zelda

==Tetra Trophy description==
Should we add the description for the Tetra trophy in Brawl to this article? While Tetra can be considered a separate character, the fact that she is (unknowingly) Princess Zelda could at least make this a good idea.
--[[User:AJ the Shinigami|AJ the Shinigami]] ([[User talk:AJ the Shinigami|talk]]) 03:30, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
:No, then you could justify putting Sheik's trophy description on the Zelda page as well, then you could justify adding the rest of the Sheik article, and you'd end up with three massive pages: Princess Zelda/Sheik/Tetra; Zelda/Sheik (SSBM); Zelda/Sheik (SSBB). You could also justify merging Link, Young Link and Toon Link, because they're all just Link. Tetra is worthy of her own page, and she's very much a separate character, so I see no reason to add her trophy description to the Zelda article. '''''<span style="font-family:Arial;">[[User:PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Penguin</font>]][[User talk:PenguinofDeath|<font color="gray">of</font>]][[Special:Contributions/PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Death</font>]]</span>''''' 08:19, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

== Playable? ==

On Sheik and Ganondorf's pages, it states that those two are the only smash bros characters to not be playable outside smash bros, when was Zelda playable?--[[User:Burgundy|Burgundy]] ([[User talk:Burgundy|talk]]) 17:43, 8 October 2011 (EDT)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-i_games_from_The_Legend_of_Zelda_series] [[User:Squishyfrog|<span style="color: green;">'''Squishyfrog'''</span>]] [[User talk:Squishyfrog|''<span style="color: green;">Chat</span>'']] 17:46, 8 October 2011 (EDT)

And Spirit Tracks. But that could also be considered as Toon Zelda. --[[User:RoyboyX|<font color="red">'''Roy'''</font><font color="gray">'''boy'''</font><font color="darkred">'''X'''</font>]][[File:RoyHeadSSBM.png|20px]] [[User talk:RoyboyX|''<span style="color:brown;">'''Talk'''</span>'']] 17:46, 8 October 2011 (EDT)

Oh right, forgot about those CD-i games. Thanks.--[[User:Burgundy|Burgundy]] ([[User talk:Burgundy|talk]]) 17:48, 8 October 2011 (EDT)

== Main image ==

Shouldn't it be updated to the SS version? --[[User:RoyboyX|<font color="red">'''Roy'''</font><font color="gray">'''boy'''</font><font color="darkred">'''X'''</font>]] [[User talk:RoyboyX|''<span style="color:brown;">'''Talk'''</span>'']] 14:06, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
:Since it depicts a heavily different character design for a different incarnation of Zelda (as opposed to a simple variation for a new game with Samus in Other M, for example), the Skyward Sword version of Zelda has no relevance to Smash at this time. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:22, 30 June 2012 (EDT)

== Error in page ==

In Zelda II, the Princess Zelda is a different Zelda from the one in the original Zelda game, but this page states otherwise. Someone needs to fix this. [[Special:Contributions/193.63.61.35|193.63.61.35]] 06:03, 20 January 2015 (EST)
I fixed it. [[Special:Contributions/54.195.233.61|54.195.233.61]] 03:29, 22 January 2015 (EST)

== Page image ==

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but I'm wondering about something here. ''Ultimate'' clarifies in Palutena's Guidance that Zelda is meant to be the incarnation from ''A Link to the Past'', but her Spirit artwork is from ''A Link Between Worlds'' anyway. I'm guessing ''Smash'' considers them the same, much like how Toon Link is the Hero of Winds but is considered the same as the ''Spirit Tracks'' incarnation. Anyway, should we switch Zelda's art to the ''A Link to the Past'' version to match Palutena's Guidance, or keep the ''A Link Between Worlds'' art for consistency with her Spirit? I'd think using the ''A Link to the Past'' art would be best, but I'd like to have a consensus first. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 20:38, 29 November 2018 (EST)
:Stick with ALBW. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 20:48, 29 November 2018 (EST)
::The main confusion is that during the "Everyone is Here" Direct, the English version said the design was based of her ''A Link Between Worlds'' appearance. When translating the Japanese version, it was actually based on her ''A Link to the Past'' appearance. This could have been a misunderstanding between the Eng and Jap version, but the ''Smash'' wiki is/was most likely using the ''A Link Between Worlds'' version as it was the most recent of Zelda in that design. (Like how Ganon uses Oot because of ''Ultimate'') The confusion probably was that ''A Link Between Worlds'' is "an indirect sequel to A Link to the Past, featuring the same version of Hyrule but new characters and gameplay elements", which is most likely why Zelda looks more or less the same in both games aside from the art style. Upon closer inspection, ''A Link Between Worlds'' Zelda does not have the red necklace that ''A Link to the Past'' does, which she does in ''Ultimate''. I agree that it should probably be changed, if not for the possible mistranslated error, then for that ''A Link Between Worlds'' Zelda does not have the red necklace that she wears in ''Smash''. We do not use the Majora's Mask art of Young Link as he holds a Mask, which he does not use in ''Smash''. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 20:58, 29 November 2018 (EST)
::Zelda's design in ''A Link Between Worlds'' also does not have the yellow jewels on her collar like her design in ''A Link to the Past''. And though one could argue that the details on her yellow accessories are just a added design for ''Smash'', the details are present in her ''A Link to the Past'' design and not in her ''A Link Between Worlds'' design. I'm pretty sure that it was a mistranslation. Regardless, we don't use more recent art designs of characters if their not present in their appearance in ''Smash'' (Lyn's art as a prime example). Her art should be change to be from ''A Link to the Past''. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 21:19, 29 November 2018 (EST)
:::Just to play Devil's Advocate, there are other details in SSBU's design that more closely match ALBW's design rather than ALTTP's design. For example, her hairstyle and the embroidery on the pink portion of her dress. It's really an amalgamation of the two designs... and when that is the case, which one do we go with? --[[User:PeabodySam|PeabodySam]] ([[User talk:PeabodySam|talk]]) 21:24, 29 November 2018 (EST)
This discussion has been repeated enough times, I'd say... In short: Her Ultimate design features elements from both ALTTP and ALBW, but the ALBW influence is clearly stronger in the most notable features (especially the hair). What Sakurai said in the original Japanese Direct was that she was based on Triforce of the Gods, which is not just the name of the SNES game, but its sequel, ALBW (Triforce of the Gods 2). Given her obvious striking resemblance to the ALBW design in particular, the English localization correctly said she was based on ALBW. And so, with her Spirit art also being ALBW, I don't think Palutena's Guidance is a strong enough reason to invalidate any of the above. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 21:29, 29 November 2018 (EST)
::I keep comparing the 3 pieces of art (ALTP, ALBW, & Ultimate), and the necklace and yellow jewels on her collar stand out.
::1) In the case of the Guidance, depending on what she says in Japanese (if not the same as ''4''), one could argue if the Direct or Palutena was wrong.
::(I'd argue that Palutena is right as that is part of the offical version of the game, and not a per-released presentation. There were a few animation errors to some characters in some of the per-released videos. And I don't mean the demos)
::2) Usually in cases like these, the country of the media's origin is considered to be the more concrete. In this case, Japan. Some things added in English/International versions can end up changing things to better localized the media, or even add or take away elements to and from the original. Pokemon comes to mind on this.
::3) Usually, unless one specifies the version, they're talking about the first version. Such as one of the reason the Wii U did not sell very well.
::As I said before with Lyn, we use her ''[https://www.ssbwiki.com/File:Lyn_Awakening.png Awakening]'' design over her ''[https://fireemblemwiki.org/wiki/File:FEH_Lyn_01.png Heroes]'' design on the Wiki as her none of her appearances in ''[https://www.ssbwiki.com/File:Lyn_Assist_Trophy_(SSBU).png Smash]'' contain the extra details to her outfit she has in ''Heroes''. Going by that, Zelda should use her art from ''[https://zelda.gamepedia.com/File:Link_To_The_Past_Remake_-_Princess_Zelda.png A Link to the Past]'' as her appearance in ''[https://www.ssbwiki.com/File:Zelda_SSBU.png Ultimate]'' contains designs and elements that are not present in her [https://zelda.gamepedia.com/File:ALBW_Zelda.png A Link Between Worlds] design. The placement of her hair with the crown (as well as Zelda's overall design) could be artist's interpretation, but the addition or absence of the necklace and yellow jewels on her collar have to be a conscious choice. Regarding Lyn, I still say it should be ALTP. We are also using Kat & Ana's ''Game & Wario'' designs instead of ''WarioWare Gold'' as G&W was their last physical appearance in ''Smash''. Also, in case you are wondering, I was told by Admin [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> with the art regarding Lyn. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 22:19, 29 November 2018 (EST)
:::Your argument contradicts itself. Incorporating ALBW features (such as the hair and dress) is just "artist's interpretation", but incorporating ALTTP features (such as the necklace and jewels) is "a conscious choice"? Why dismiss the notion that SSBU Zelda's design was a deliberate amalgamation of both ALTTP and ALBW? It also provides an easy explanation for the contradictory statements about her origin, ''because both are true''. --[[User:PeabodySam|PeabodySam]] ([[User talk:PeabodySam|talk]]) 22:27, 29 November 2018 (EST)
::::What I meant was, the visual overall differences in the designs between the Zeldas is most likely that they had a different person doing the art for the games. Which would most likely be an artist's visual interpretation. Aside from BotW, Link and Zelda's designs look very similar in most games with a few differences. What I meant about the necklace and jewels is why weren't they added in ALBW if it was based on ALTP? It feel it was more likely then not the artist's choice not to incorporated them. (Or the game could not handle the accessories so the art reflected that) Regardless if it was their choice not to or why, Zelda in ''Ultimate'' does them. Like I said with Lyn. 

::::Why don't we use Young Link's art from Majora's Mask 3D for example. Because his MM art has a mask which is not present in ''Smash''.

::::I feel we should change the art to be ALTP as I said before with the accessories. I mean, now Ashley uses her ''WarioWear Gold'' design for her page to match her appearance in ''Ultimate'' instead of her ''Game & Wario'' design used in ''Smash 4'' because the color of her eyes change between the two games. (yes, that was the only change) With what I've been told and learning about how the characters' art is used, using Zelda's ALTP art makes more sense with what I've been told.

::::What I'm getting at: Just swap her ALBW & ALTP art on her page for the reasons I mentioned. I did not mean to make it sound like I was trying to get rid of one. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 23:15, 29 November 2018 (EST)
I disagree wholeheartedly. As PeabodySam said, it is without question an amalgamation of the two designs, but in my opinion you have to look harder to find features that come from the ALTTP design, whereas features from the ALBW design, like her hair, are staring you in the face. The repeated English-language statements about the design being based on ALBW are just icing on the cake. There's no reason to change the infobox picture. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 23:30, 29 November 2018 (EST)
[[File:ZeldaUCompair.png|150px|thumb]]
:Even when taking the points you mentioned (the hair and dress), I still find more [https://www.ssbwiki.com/File:ZeldaUCompair.png similarities] of ''Ultimate'' to ALTP. (I can't find anything else matching to Ultimate Zelda in this [https://www.ssbwiki.com/File:ZeldaUCompair.png picture] I made.) Also, if Lyn can't use her ''Heroes'' art because it has elements to it that doesn't match her ''Smash'' appearance more accurately, why should Zelda use the ALBW art that doesn't have elements to it that match her ''Smash'' appearance more accurately?
:I apologize if I happen to be annoying anyone, but I am ''really'' having trouble understanding. Can someone please explain to me why Zelda's art should break the guidelines I was told by an Admin? (This would be so much easier if we could just use her most recent BotW art) [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 00:34, 30 November 2018 (EST)
{{clr}}

I found proof that the artwork should remain ALBW: This Youtube video shows all the spirits where all fighter spirits are listed first in their series and it shows Zelda's fighter spirit with ALBW artwork. https://youtu.be/UyZ9jecFJr4?t=85 [[:User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) is a never lover boy  03:32, 30 November 2018 (EST)
:Seeing as all the ''Zelda characters'' seem to use art from the game their based on, I guess the ALBW art is fine. I apologize if I annoyed anyone with this, in hindsight, I probably should have stopped after the second attempt (I blame it being late when I tried after the second attempt). [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 13:04, 30 November 2018 (EST)

Woah, I wasn't expecting this much of a discussion. I know this has already been discussed in detail; Zelda's definitely a mix between the ''ALttP'' and the ''ALBW'' designs, but ''Smash'' itself flip-flops on which one she represents, so that's why I brought it up. Her Fighter Spirit is from ''ALBW'', regardless, so that one's probably more representative design-wise. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 15:16, 30 November 2018 (EST)

==Zelda's playability==
Since I was told to bring it up here. It's common knowledge that Nintendo doesn't acknowledge the existence of the CD-i games, but regardless of the circumstances, those two (''Wand of Gamelon'' and ''Zelda's Adventure'') were the first to feature Zelda as a playable character prior to ''Smash'' and ''Spirit Tracks''. Since they aren't canon, I figure the entry could be something like this:

* ''Super Smash Bros. Melee'' marks Zelda's first playable appearance in an official Nintendo game. She was previously playable in the Philips CD-i titles ''Zelda: The Wand of Gamelon'' and ''Zelda's Adventure'', which were disowned by Nintendo; her first playable appearance in an official ''Zelda'' game was ''The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks''.

On Ganondorf and Sheik's pages, they are listed as the only characters who made playable appearances in ''Smash'' before becoming playable in their home series. In this case, the exceptions would be Roy (since his appearance in ''Melee'' was before his debut game) and Zelda (because of the CD-i games); whether they're mentioned or not doesn't really matter, I'd suppose. Does that sound good? ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 20:41, September 27, 2019 (EDT)
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