Editing Talk:Pichu (SSBU)

== So, which artwork is Pichu not in? ==

I said Pichu is in [https://i.imgur.com/i0AgpVL.png?2], while Aidanzapunk thinks he meant [[:File:Super Smash Bros Ultimate Box Art RP.png|the boxart]], but it's missing several other characters too like Wolf and Diddy Kong. So which artwork is the trivia referring to?[[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 11:40, 26 June 2018 (EDT)
:I meant [https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35082785_10214876049312064_7402707341059031040_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9f426a5cb11d35bd1c5da866e7296d89&oe=5BE72A78 this image]. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 11:59, 26 June 2018 (EDT)
::Ah, thanks. Do you think we should include the image into the fact? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 12:04, 26 June 2018 (EDT)

== Why Pichu isn't an Echo Fighter ==

Currently, the article states "Although Pichu's moveset still resembles that of Pikachu, it is not classified as an Echo Fighter. As with Dr. Mario and Young Link, this is more likely due to it debuting in ''Melee'' rather than ''SSB4'' or ''Ultimate'' as with the Echo Fighters." This bothers me because it seems speculative, which [[SmashWiki is not speculative|we are not suppose to be]]. Secondly, while this may be a reasonable explanation for Dr. Mario (who was indeed considered a [[clone]] in ''SSB4'' and is directly derived from Mario's model), I think it is too simplistic to suggest Pichu and Young Link are considered unique fighters solely because they are from ''Melee''. From [https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/09/26/sakurai-discusses-isabelle-echoes-and-newcomers/ Famitsu column] written by [[Sakurai]], he states the following: "Isabelle is based off of Villager. She pockets items and rides on a balloon swing. However, she is not an Echo Fighter. This is because Isabelle and Villager have fundamentally different body types and personalities, so we couldn’t have made her an Echo. '''All of her animations are different; not a single one is the same.'''"

From Sakurai, the the most important qualities that distinguish Isabelle and Villager are their different body proportions (so the model of the derived character [Isabelle] could not simply share the rig from the base character [Villager]) and that they have unique animations for all of their attacks, even for similar attacks like Pocket. Ergo, while they may be considered [[semi-clone]]s, they are certainly not strict clones. I think this is true of Pichu as well: it has a very different body from Pikachu's, and while many of their attacks are similar, the animations are all unique. Some attacks are unique between each one as well. For ''Ultimate'', I think it's more fair to suggest that the relationship between Pichu and Pikachu is similar to the one between Lucas and Ness, rather than Lucina and Marth. (Same goes for Young Link in relation to Link, but the focus here is specifically on Pichu.) -- [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:14, 28 December 2018 (EST)

:But Pichu and Young Link have far more derived moves than Isabelle or Lucas. Additionally, Pichu and Young Link's movesets are not distinct enough to warrant calling them semi-clones either. Young Link, in particular, seems to be based on {{SSB4|Link}} in ''SSB4'' rather than {{SSBU|Link}} in ''Ultimate''.

::Can't we just have no explanation? We don't know the official reason and I sure don't remember Sakurai saying "Dr. Mario isn't an Echo because he came from melee" or "Young Link isn't an Echo because he's lighter." Either we have both possible explinations (Grandfather Clause or differences that'd effect combos against said characters) or we have none. Having one is speculative and that's not what this wiki is for. [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] ([[User talk:Guybrush20X6|talk]]) 15:12, 28 December 2018 (EST)

:::I would support that, though this will come up again on the actual clone article. Though I will say that I’m not sure that the number of moves that are derived from the base character really matter if the animation for those moves are unique. — [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:19, 28 December 2018 (EST)

Sakurai actually said that echo fighters have largely the same stats in all manners, and are balanced only against their source character (if at all). For something like Daisy vs Peach, she has only visual changes and all of her moves act exactly like Peach's. So this means that they only need to balance one character and port over changes to the other. Can't do that for Dr Mario, Pichu and Young Link. --[[Special:Contributions/86.163.150.33|86.163.150.33]] 16:26, 4 January 2019 (EST)

== Differences from Pikachu. ==

The list of differences with Pichu and Pikachu are too large to number, you even missed some attribute changes such as it's jumps and item attack multiplier. At this point, can we make the differences from sections be exclusive to Echo Fighters and revamp Pichu, Dr Mario, Toon Link and Young Link's pages? --[[Special:Contributions/5.81.67.51|5.81.67.51]] 14:55, June 2, 2019 (EDT)
:No. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 15:32, June 2, 2019 (EDT)
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