Editing Talk:Perfect shield

==Frame Data==
So for the sake of professionalism, I really feel like the input window for powershields should be listed on the page. IIRC it was 1 in melee and like 5 in Brawl or something of the sort. I don't know, but I would be able to check to confirm this kind of information if there was some sort of, like, online resource on the matter; a collection of web pages dedicated to providing information akin to an encyclopedia, but over a particular subject, if you would.

[[User:Kink-Link5|Kink-Link5]] ([[User talk:Kink-Link5|talk]]) 21:05, 16 June 2012 (EDT)

:-NEVERMIND, it was just a little buried in the beginning section; it would still be nice to put in the trivia section something about either their being differences in timing between the games, or something like "Although it is commonly believed there's a difference, there isn't one," if there is indeed none. [[User:Kink-Link5|Kink-Link5]] ([[User talk:Kink-Link5|talk]]) 03:44, 1 July 2012 (EDT)

== Rename ==

Discuss. Currently '''neutral'''. [[User:RoyboyX|<font color="red">'''Roy'''</font><font color="gray">'''boy'''</font><font color="darkred">'''X'''</font>]] [[User talk:RoyboyX|''<span style="color:brown;">'''Talk'''</span>'']] 09:31, 2 June 2013 (EDT)
:I propose splitting this page into »Powershield (SSBM)« and »Powershield (SSBB)«, with »Perfect shield« redirecting to the latter. I have some knowledge on powershielding in Melee and can write the Melee page. [[User:Kadano|Kadano]] ([[User talk:Kadano|talk]]) 12:43, 2 June 2013 (EDT)
::It's the same technique, no reason to split. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Prismatic 13:18, 2 June 2013 (EDT)
:::Not really, frame data and function is different in many ways. I know combining both games in most of the articles is standard here, but for techniques like this where players need a good reference to look up this is a very bad solution. [[User:Kadano|Kadano]] ([[User talk:Kadano|talk]]) 15:03, 2 June 2013 (EDT)
::::Frame data is just a different set of numbers; function is pretty much the same (press shield button just before being hit to block with no shield reduction or lag). I have a hard time believing that the differences in technicalities of the technique between the two games is enough to warrant a separate page; it's not like people will get confused or something just because the page is primarily divided into two sections. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Altruistic 16:56, 2 June 2013 (EDT)
:::::Well, you don’t play competitively, do you? For those who do, it’s sometimes very important to know how exactly powershielding works. Right now, this information is pretty hard to find. Magus420 once wrote elaborate posts about it on smashboards, but the search engine there is broken and it’s not even a dedicated thread. So far I thought ssbwiki has an encyclopedic pretense, and right now this »Perfect shield« article doesn’t contain any useful information concerning Melee powershielding. To competitive players it has no value. Now of course I could include all the information about Melee’s powershielding workings here, but this would make the article cluttered and confusing to casual players. How about writing a subpage for Melee titled »Powershielding/SSBM« containing the more detailed information linked from the Melee section of the current article? [[User:Kadano|Kadano]] ([[User talk:Kadano|talk]]) 17:03, 2 June 2013 (EDT)
::::::You can go ahead and add the data anyway. If you don't know how to make it non-confusing to non-competitive players, other people are probably open to help. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Loony 18:07, 2 June 2013 (EDT)
::::::Pretty much what Toomai said, and with the sections and subsections, you can keep Melee and Brawl information separate, while still keeping it detailed and organised. If there's so much valid information that the page becomes too large (over 32K is pretty much our standard cutoff point), then yeah, splitting the page into subpages will be a valid idea. Such information should be in the article first to demonstrate the need of separate articles though.

::::::On another note, I give you props for being able to explain a major reason that the Wiki can be potentially such a useful resource for competitive players over Smashboards (it's really is too damn difficult to find stuff there most of the time). Now if only more competitive and competitively knowledgeable players would be willing to write here to help achieve that. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 09:42, 3 June 2013 (EDT)
Split pseudo-debate aside, anyone on renaming? Still <s>'''neutral'''</s>. [[User:RoyboyX|<font color="red">'''Roy'''</font><font color="gray">'''boy'''</font><font color="darkred">'''X'''</font>]] [[User talk:RoyboyX|''<span style="color:brown;">'''Talk'''</span>'']] 15:26, 31 July 2013 (EDT)
:I prefer calling it Powershield, so I '''support'''. [[User:Scr7|<font style="color:#0000FF">S</font><font style="color:#7F7FFF">c</font><font style="color:#00FFFF">r</font>]][[User talk:Scr7|<font style="color:#FF7F00">7</font>]][[File:Wolfsig.png|19px|link=Special:Contributions/Scr7]] 16:26, 31 July 2013 (EDT)
::What you "prefer" is not valid for determining a rename. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:32, 31 July 2013 (EDT)

'''Oppose''' "Power shield" might be used more often among the Melee community, but among Brawl people, I see perfect shield as the dominant term used. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:32, 31 July 2013 (EDT)

'''Oppose''': Per Omega Tyrant. I never heard of it referred to as power-shielding outside of this article and this discussion. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 19:26, 31 July 2013 (EDT)

'''Oppose''': I could probably get away with just copying and pasting DoctorPain99's comment. [[User:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#ff8c00|'''Toast'''}}]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#01a3c4|'''ltimatum'''}}]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 19:31, 31 July 2013 (EDT)

'''Oppose''' Never heard of the name Powershield and it sounds stupid anyway. Also Melee is not completely supreme to Brawl. <small>Don't kill me Brian!</small> [[User:RoyboyX|<font color="red">'''Roy'''</font><font color="gray">'''boy'''</font><font color="darkred">'''X'''</font>]] [[User talk:RoyboyX|''<span style="color:brown;">'''Talk'''</span>'']] 11:19, 1 August 2013 (EDT)

Well since I don't really give a crap about what it's called, I'll change to '''Neutral'''. [[User:Scr7|<font style="color:#0000FF">S</font><font style="color:#7F7FFF">c</font><font style="color:#00FFFF">r</font>]][[User talk:Scr7|<font style="color:#FF7F00">7</font>]][[File:Wolfsig.png|19px|link=Special:Contributions/Scr7]] 11:21, 1 August 2013 (EDT)

OT, since when was it the Brawl Community's job to decide the names for technical terms, when they don't even care about tech skill or even this wiki :p. Joking aside, I do '''support''' Kadano's proposal since there is both frame data difference and different competitive values for powershielding in Melee, and Perfect Shielding in Brawl. There's alot more technical data, but here's some brief info. In terms of frame data, in melee powershielding refers to the first 2 frames of the full shield which reflect any projectile coming into contact with the shield. A perfect shield can be thought of frames 3 and 4 of the shield. These block any attack with no shield stun (frames 1 and 2 do also), but do not reflect projectiles. In Brawl frames 1 and 2 have been nerfed; they act like frames 3 and 4 in Melee. This is a huge difference in competitive play value, as it means the shield can be used more offensively. This would also solve the naming issue. Powershielding is the correct term for the melee community. I don't keep up with Brawl anymore but I have heard commentators say both names. And DP99, Toast, Royboy, I don't think you should oppose because you haven't heard the name at all before. That means you have not kept up with the community. It does not mean the name is any less common. --<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 14:25, 1 August 2013 (EDT)
:Read what was said earlier about the content, they can easily be kept on the same article, one section for Melee and one section for Brawl. They are not so different that there's so much information it would be impossible to keep on the same article.

:For something towards everyone, in a naming conflict between Melee community and Brawl community, I think it's reasonable to go with the official name. Generally speaking, we don't use the official names when another name is used near unanimously instead (teching instead of ukemi, tripping instead of prat falling, etc.). In this case though, the official name has significant usage, and people won't go "what?" if you were to use it instead of "power shield". <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 14:38, 1 August 2013 (EDT)
::I was under the impression the official name for the technique in Melee was Powershield. Is there proof saying otherwise?--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 14:47, 1 August 2013 (EDT)
:::To my knowledge, it was never officially named in Melee, just like teching and glancing blows. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 14:48, 1 August 2013 (EDT)
:::Ok, there's a bonus that specifically refers to it as the Power Shield, so for all intents and purposes its official name in Melee was power shielding. In which case, we go with the more recent name for the article title, while explicitly mentioning that its officially and commonly used name in Melee is power shielding (while removing that flash shielding bit, as I never heard that used anywhere). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 14:57, 1 August 2013 (EDT)
::::@Brian: Actually, having never heard the term before is a valid oppose reason, especially since I hear the term "perfect shielding" all of the time. It does actually make the name less common if one has to keep up with the Melee community to hear the term "powershielding". If only the Melee community uses that term, that makes perfect shielding, used by the Brawl community, and basically everyone else, the more common term. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 16:01, 1 August 2013 (EDT)
:::::@OT: Fine, that's fair reasoning, but only because perfect shielding actually sees usage in the community. 
:::::@DP: Your're assuming the Brawl Community is inherently superior to the Melee community, and that is both not true and the incorrect way to decide terminology. First of all, given all the recent hype and post hype of EVO, the Melee Community saw a huge surge in growth, both in players and events. I'm not saying the Melee community is superior to Brawl's, but you can't eschew it for Brawl every time when looking at "majority" in the Smash community as a whole. And second, I concede to OT's reasoning, but he didn't say "Brawl uses perfect shielding -> we use perfect shielding." He stated perfect shielding sees usage in the community and is the most recent official term from Nintendo, so therefore it's sensible to use the term as the title. And thirdly, you not being an active member of either community removes credibility from you when you say "I haven't seen it before" since that makes you an unreliable witness.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 17:39, 1 August 2013 (EDT)

Brawl calls it Perfect Shield. SSB4 calls it Perfect Shield. Ultimate calls it Perfect Shield. The name "power shield" is just a misnomer based on a melee bonus. Why hasn't this been changed by now?  Just because some melee fanboys refuse to move on and learn from their mistakes? - [[Special:Contributions/68.190.118.39|68.190.118.39]] 15:18, 3 January 2019 (EST)

:While I don't agree with your line about "melee fanboys" as it's not necessary for a professional website and goes against the talk page's guidelines, I agree with the users above that the most recent official name "perfect shield" should be used as the article title as it has the most significant use both offically and among players.[[User: supatoad64|<span style="color:blue;"> '''SupaToad64''' </span>]] [[ Image: Supatoad64Sig.jpg|20px ]] 02:40, June 9, 2019 (EDT)

==Move 2==
Google results:
 
*site:www.smashboards.com "power shield" - 4,580 results
*site:www.smashboards.com "powershield" - 12,600 results
*site:www.smashboards.com "perfect shield" - 2,900 results

I very rarely hear people say perfect shield in relation to any game these days. It's all about power shields. [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 17:39, 21 April 2014 (EDT)

'''Indeed''' [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Wacko 18:07, 21 April 2014 (EDT)

'''Support'''—This is why I wrote [[SmashWiki:SmashWiki is not official|SmashWiki is not official]] back in the day. Powershield is the real term.  [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 19:13, 21 April 2014 (EDT)

'''Support''' Ok--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 00:44, 22 April 2014 (EDT)

'''Support''' - I noticed this a while back as well. "Power shield" is definitely the more common term used to refer to this technique and has been for quite some time. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 02:17, 22 April 2014 (EDT)

'''Yeah''', I don't think I've ever heard anyone call it a Perfect Shield outside the Dojo. [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 02:30, 22 April 2014 (EDT)

'''Support''' Powershield is more popular and official by the Melee bonus "Powershielder". [[User:Kadano|<font color="blue">Kadano</font>]] [[User talk:Kadano|<font color="teal">talk</font>]] 03:52, 22 April 2014 (EDT)

'''Support''' per the reasoning [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 04:00, 22 April 2014 (EDT)

'''Support''' Due to the above reasons, I have no objections. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 08:36, 22 April 2014 (EDT)

== Move 3 ==

It has been suggested that this page be moved to "Power shield".
I '''oppose''' for the same reasons Toomai provided in ''Move 2''. [[User:Kadano|<font color="blue">Kadano</font>]] [[User talk:Kadano|<font color="teal">talk</font>]] 05:53, 22 February 2015 (EST)

Powershield appears to be the most common variant. Using official names for everything isn't priority, why I '''oppose''' the rename. &ndash; [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]] 16:01, 6 May 2015 (EDT)

I am not really sure why [[User:Dagon|Dagon]] moved this without warning, with 2 opposing votes and no support. This should be moved back.[[User:Serpent_King|<span style="color:#008833; text-shadow:-1px -1px #00bb77;">'''Serpent King'''</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent_King|(<span style="color: blue;">talk</span>)]] 16:42, 26 May 2015 (EDT)
:I moved it back and add my '''oppose''' to the idea of the name "power shield". [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Zesty 17:58, 26 May 2015 (EDT)
::Also '''Oppose''' per Toomai in ''Move 2'' [[User:Serpent_King|<span style="color:#008833; text-shadow:-1px -1px #00bb77;">'''Serpent King'''</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent_King|(<span style="color: blue;">talk</span>)]] 18:37, 26 May 2015 (EDT)

==Equipment and Spirit effects==
I felt like the information on how equipment and spirits can change the effect of perfect shields should be listed on the page. While it's not necessary for competitive play I felt it should be mentioned for the sake of completionism. Was this change alright?[[User: supatoad64|<span style="color:blue;"> '''SupaToad64''' </span>]] [[ Image: Supatoad64Sig.jpg|20px ]] 03:27, June 8, 2019 (EDT)

== Powershield vs Perfect Shield ==

This debate has been going on for awhile so let's decide which name should be used for the article title:

'''''Powershield''''' or '''''Perfect Shield'''''.

<span style="font-family: Algerian">'''[[User:supatoad64|<span style="color:green;">Supα</span>]][[User talk:supatoad64|<span style="color:red;">Toαd</span><span style="color:blue;">64</span>]]'''</span> [[ Image: MK64ToadCSP.jpg|20px ]] 09:32, August 31, 2019 (EDT)
:Also make sure to specify which name you suggest in '''bold''' to make it easier to count. Currently:
:'''Powershield''': 0
:'''Perfect Shield''': 4
Perfect Shield is currently leading <span style="font-family: Algerian">'''[[User:supatoad64|<span style="color:green;">Supα</span>]][[User talk:supatoad64|<span style="color:red;">Toαd</span><span style="color:blue;">64</span>]]'''</span> [[Image:001Toad.jpg|20px]] 07:48, November 4, 2019 (EST)

:'''Perfect Shield''': The most recent name. Powershielding can redirect here, but it's not the name used anymore so it should be replaced. [[User:Crazy456Rhino|Crazy456Rhino]] ([[User talk:Crazy456Rhino|talk]]) 09:14, October 17, 2019 (EDT)

:'''Perfect Shield''': Honestly, I never hear the term powershield when talking about this. I only hear Perfect shield and parry. I think powershield should only be used in ''Melee'' discussion, since that is where it's most used. [[User:X-Biaur19|X-Biaur19]] ([[User talk:X-Biaur19|talk]]) 21:40, November 2, 2019 (EDT)

:'''Perfect shield''': Basically what Omega Tyrant said 6 years ago because it's exactly what I think: Powershield is the most common name used within the Melee community, but from Brawl and onward Perfect Shield is the dominant term used both officially and among players. The only times we use unofficial names is if it has more significant usage by players over the official name (L cancelling instead of smooth landing, SDI instead of hitstun shuffling, etc.), but the rule doesn't apply to the term Perfect Shield due to its significant usage, and mostly everyone has heard the term Perfect Shield so they won't go "what?" when hearing it. <span style="font-family: Algerian">'''[[User:supatoad64|<span style="color:green;">Supα</span>]][[User talk:supatoad64|<span style="color:red;">Toαd</span><span style="color:blue;">64</span>]]'''</span> [[Image:001Toad.jpg|20px]] 07:48, November 4, 2019 (EST)
:'''Perfect Shield''' I've never heard this called Powershield. [[Special:Contributions/72.203.118.154|72.203.118.154]] 01:52, January 12, 2020 (EST)
::One last '''bump'''.<span style="font-family: Algerian">'''[[User:supatoad64|<span style="color:green;">Supα</span>]][[User talk:supatoad64|<span style="color:red;">Toαd</span><span style="color:blue;">64</span>]]'''</span> [[Image:001Toad.jpg|20px]] 19:22, February 1, 2020 (EST)

== "Officially" power shield? ==

I thought that was just the name of the Bonus. Like how taunting isn't called "Fighter Stance". [[Special:Contributions/68.190.118.39|68.190.118.39]] 22:29, November 9, 2020 (EST)
:"Power shielder" Awarded for: "Used the '''Power Shield''' often" '''[[User:Omega Toad|<font color="blue">Omegɑ</font>]] [[User talk:Omega Toad|<font color="blue">Toɑd</font>]]''' [[File:Toad.png|20px]] 23:46, November 9, 2020 (EST)
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