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| Also, The limit break lowers the kill percent for the Omnislash.[[User:PacmanLP|PacmanLP]] ([[User talk:PacmanLP|talk]]) 03:11, 19 December 2015 (EST) | | Also, The limit break lowers the kill percent for the Omnislash.[[User:PacmanLP|PacmanLP]] ([[User talk:PacmanLP|talk]]) 03:11, 19 December 2015 (EST) |
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| It takes about 6 seconds to get it fully charged <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Lilwake1|Lilwake1]] ([[User talk:Lilwake1|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lilwake1|contribs]]) 21:02, 4 July 2017</small> | | It takes about 6 seconds to get it fully charged <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Lilwake1|Lilwake1]] ([[User talk:Lilwake1|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lilwake1|contribs]]) 21:02, 4 July 2017</small> |
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| ==Limit Breaker quote== | | ==Limit Breaker quote== |
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| ::::Notably, he isn't up on the site yet; perhaps, once he is, there will be a version with his English VA. That aside, I'm one who supports that theory as well (and I also personally believe they'll release [[Wolf|a certain heavily requested character]]), but, like you said, we'll have to wait and see. [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 11:38, 13 November 2015 (EST) | | ::::Notably, he isn't up on the site yet; perhaps, once he is, there will be a version with his English VA. That aside, I'm one who supports that theory as well (and I also personally believe they'll release [[Wolf|a certain heavily requested character]]), but, like you said, we'll have to wait and see. [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 11:38, 13 November 2015 (EST) |
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| == Picture of Cloud without Green Background == | | == Picture of Cloud without Green Background == |
| [[:File:Cloud.png]].<small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Crowbars|Crowbars]] ([[User talk:Crowbars|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Crowbars|contribs]]) {{{2}}}</small> | | [[:File:Cloud.png]].<small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Crowbars|Crowbars]] ([[User talk:Crowbars|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Crowbars|contribs]]) {{{2}}}</small> |
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| I think we should discuss which Cloud Player should be put in this article.Cause there are so many good Cloud around here. [[User:NaughtyPigMario|NaughtyPigMario]] ([[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|talk]]) 09:54, 27 May 2018 (EDT) | | I think we should discuss which Cloud Player should be put in this article.Cause there are so many good Cloud around here. [[User:NaughtyPigMario|NaughtyPigMario]] ([[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|talk]]) 09:54, 27 May 2018 (EDT) |
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| I just saw that you listed Leo as the best which he isn't he was certainly the best Cloud early 2017 but Since EVO 2017, Tweek's Cloud has seen improved results and wins so there is no way Leo is better especially since Tweek has better wins with Cloud and has higher peaks (he got 3rd at EVO 2017 by going solo Cloud and he won LEO Saga by primarly using Cloud both of which are S+ tier tourneys). So you should just take into account all the results and not just those of this year. Because most people consider Tweek tied with Leo for best Cloud. [[User:Raygo|Raygo]] ([[User talk:Raygo|talk]]) 11:36, 8 August 2018 (EDT) | | I just saw that you listed Leo as the best which he isn't he was certainly the best Cloud early 2017 but Since EVO 2017, Tweek's Cloud has seen improved results and wins so there is no way Leo is better especially since Tweek has better wins with Cloud and has higher peaks (he got 3rd at EVO 2017 by going solo Cloud and he won LEO Saga by primarly using Cloud both of which are S+ tier tourneys). So you should just take into account all the results and not just those of this year. Because most people consider Tweek tied with Leo for best Cloud. |
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| == Decrease Cloud's MHSP limit back to the default 10 players ==
| | [[User:Raygo|Raygo]] ([[User talk:Raygo|talk]]) 11:36, 8 August 2018 (EDT) |
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| So when the "Notable players" sections were overhauled into the "Most historically significant players" sections, a hard 10 player limit was added to every section to reign in the bloat that plagued the "Notable players" lists so severely, with a small handful being given an expanded 15 player limit (or 20 in the case of Melee Fox), when I deemed that the character had more than 10 players that were too indispensable to the character's meta history to exclude. One of these characters were Smash 4 Cloud, as most people would probably agree with on the surface, being the #2 character in Smash 4 by a significant margin and being played by a disgustingly large amount of people, and so I included Cloud in the expanded limit without giving it the scrutiny I should have. When looking over Cloud's MHSP section now, I see many players that are clearly a level or two below the other players, and don't really stack up all that high when considering the very high standards that a character like Cloud carries:
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| *{{Sm|Blacktwins}}, who was never PGR'd a single time, and never top 8'd a major either, while having only two major top 16s.
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| *{{Sm|Mangalitza♀}}, whose lack of getting PGR'd could be blamed on the PGR undervaluing Japanese players throughout Smash 4, but even then, his only major results are a 65th at {{Trn|Umebura S.A.T.}} and 49th at {{Trn|Umebura Japan Major}}, while rarely getting top 8 at Japanese regionals. Was winning {{Trn|Sumabato 21}} alone really enough to make him a historically significant Cloud?
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| *{{Sm|MattyG}}, who was never PGR'd a single time and also never top 8'd a single major, with only a single major top 16 {{Trn|Super Smash Con 2017}}.
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| *{{Sm|Purple~H}}, who was never PGR'd and doesn't seem to have attended any Smash 4 majors. Is once being considered top 10 in Europe, back when it was even weaker as a superregion than it is Ultimate, really that historically significant with a character of Cloud's caliber?
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| *{{Sm|Ralphie}}, yet another NA Cloud that was never PGR'd, and never top 8'd a major (excluding the post-Ultimate {{Trn|Super Smash Con 2019}}, which a hilarious amount of the notable Smash 4 players dropped out of), and has a single major top 16 at {{Trn|Super Smash Con 2018}}.
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| You remove these five players that are clearly a cut below the rest, and the section would become 10 players, while there's also other disputable cases like {{Sm|ANTi}} (how much Cloud did he really use?), {{Sm|Javi}} (how much of his results is attributed to Sheik and not Cloud?), and {{Sm|Mao}} (was his lack of being PGR'd really attributable to Japan being underrated, or was he simply never actually of top 50 caliber?). Compare Cloud's MHSP section to [[Bayonetta (SSB4)#Most historically significant players|Bayo's MHSP section]], and the players in Cloud's are just clearly worse across the board. As such, I'm going to propose decreasing Smash 4 Cloud's MHSP limit back to the default 10. If you oppose this, do provide a compelling reason for why these disputed players are too important to Smash 4's Cloud's history to not include. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 22:08, January 8, 2025 (EST)
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| :'''Support''', comparing the proposed cuts here with the expanded MHSP on the Bayo page. [[User:Antimony|Antimony]] ([[User talk:Antimony|talk]]) 22:32, January 8, 2025 (EST)
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| :'''Support''', pretty self-explanatory. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 20:22, January 13, 2025 (EST)
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| As kind of a side note, I looked into ANTi and Javi a bit more to determine how much Cloud they actually used.
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| :ANTI: Cloud was at least a frequently-used secondary for him. He used Cloud in Grand Finals against Zinoto to win CEO 2016, and has also defeated CaptainZack (Pax Arena 2017) and Samsora (DHATL 2017) with just Cloud. He has also used Cloud in games to defeat Kameme (Smashdown World, 1 game of Cloud), NAKAT (GENESIS 4, 2 games of Cloud) . As for events, he primarily used Cloud to place 5th at DHATL 2017 and has secondaried Cloud at multiple other events.
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| :Javi: Javi's Cloud was actually more of a co-main than a secondary, at least until 2018. He has used Cloud to defeat Ned (Big House 7) and Cosmos (DreamHack Denver 2017) as well as in games to defeat Abadango (Big House 7, 2 games) and MkLeo (The Arena 2017, 1 game). At events, he notably used only Cloud to place 4th at Midwest Mayhem 7: Mexico Invasion and used primarily Cloud to place 2nd at The Arena 2017, 9th at 2GGC: GENESIS Saga, and 17th at 2GGC: West Side Saga.
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| At least to me, I don't think ANTi's Cloud is the reason as to why ANTi is ranked on the PGR 100 (his Mario had a significantly bigger impact) while Javi's Cloud certainly helped him rank on the PGR and the PGR 100, so I would personally remove ANTi and keep Javi. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 14:27, January 15, 2025 (EST)
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