Editing Forum:Smash Remix content

{{forumheader|Proposals}}<!-- Please put your content below this line. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes: ~~~~ -->
{{Proposal}}
I think, similar to Project+ we need to discuss the coverage of the Nintendo 64 mod Smash Remix since it has been featured at a lot of events, for example as side events on 64 tourneys like {{Trn|Smashtoberfest}}, {{Trn|Keystoned IV}} or in smaller remix only tournaments series' hosted by and for smash 64 players like [https://smash.gg/tournament/el-refugio-de-shalaka-8-smash-remix/events {{Sm|Shalaka}}'s El Refugio] or [https://challonge.com/RemixedNS1 {{Sm|JaimeHR}}'s Remixed Netplay Showdown] as one of the main events on multi-smash game tournaments like {{Trn|Frame Perfect Series 3: ONLINE}}. Not surprisingly though it's much smaller than Project+, with a bit under 50 entrants being the current maximum number probably. Currently it is mostly played by smash 64 players which is kind of similar to how Project M was mainly played by Melee players at first.

As of now, remix doesn't have it's own page, the new characters don't have either, there's no remix icon and the new characters don't have icons either, which is a problem if we want to add the results to tournament pages.

There are multiple ways to handle it:
*1) Just ignore remix tournaments completely, maybe write a "There has also been a remix tournament"
*2) Add remix result tables to tournaments, leave the used characters blank (like it is currently handled usually).
*3) Add icons & maybe also create pages, maybe only for the game at first.

Maybe we should wait until it turns more into it's own thing or gets bigger or partially replaces smash 64 more and stay at 2)? Some might want to go back to 1) I imagine..

:'''Support 3''': I think the mod has grown enough to have a dedicated page and character icons that link back to the page. I don't think it's large enough to have it's own character pages. While it hasn't taken over Smash 64 in popularity and I doubt it will, it seems more akin to how certain Brawl events held tournaments for mods such as Brawl+ or -. [[User:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:#850FFA; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Señor'''</span> <span style="color:#850FFA;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px green">'''Mexicano'''</span>]] ''[[User talk:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:lightpurple;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px lightgreen">(talk)</span>]]'' 08:42, November 11, 2020 (EST)
:I'm '''leaning towards 2''' for now since Smash Remix is still a relatively new game. If bigger national tournaments or large online tournaments start hosting the game in the near future, I believe that's when we can do more Smash Remix content. However if mods like Brawl+ and Brawl- have their own page I don't see why Smash Remix shouldn't have one as well. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 10:55, November 11, 2020 (EST)
:'''Support 3''': I think it could more popular in the future so the mod could have a page. [[File:ThegameandwatchIcon2.png|20px]] [[User:Thegameandwatch|<span style=" color: red;">'''Thegameandwatch'''</span>]] [[File:ThegameandwatchIcon3.png|20px]] [[User talk:Thegameandwatch|''<span style="color: cyan;">The Nerd </span>'']] 12:16, November 11, 2020 (EST)
:'''Support 3''': This mod seems to be growing to be one of the most popular in all of Smash history, potentially being able to rival Project M one day in this regard. While we should maybe hold back on making character pages for a bit, not giving this mod a page at least seems criminal. It deserves to be acknowledged in my opinion. [[User:Crazy456Rhino|Crazy456Rhino]] ([[User talk:Crazy456Rhino|talk]]) 14:48, April 16, 2021 (EDT)
:'''Support 2''': Just leave it the way we currently do it for now. The reason we treat Project M and + the way we do is because it completely overshadowed the Brawl competitive scene and became too big to ignore. To my knowledge, while this mod has had tournament relevence and recently had a tour, it is still rather new so we should give it some time to make sure that it continues to grow and is not just a fad. Plus as you said the scene is much smaller than Project+, and even though it has likely grown since then (since that was over a year ago), it likely hasn't made the Smash 64 scene entirely obsolete as PM did to Brawl. While I agree it isn't fair to completely ignore it, and I wouldn't oppose giving it a page, I don't believe it should be treated with equal standards as PM/+ at least until it reaches that level of notability. [[File:725.png|20px]] '''[[User:Omega Toad|<font color="red">Omega Toad</font>]] [[User talk:Omega Toad|<font color="green">the Jolly Shiny Litten.</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Omega Toad|<font color="lightskyblue">(Seasons greetings!)</font>]]''' 06:32, January 11, 2022 (EST)
::Seeing as other users have brought it up and I haven't said my piece on it, I'll put my '''big no''' for adding individual character articles. While I believe the mod itself is more than welcome for having it's own article, we'd be severely jumping the gun if we begin creating character articles, considering it has not made the same impact on the series PM/+ did, nor do I think it ever will. [[File:725.png|20px]] '''[[User:Omega Toad|<font color="red">Omega Toad</font>]] [[User talk:Omega Toad|<font color="green">the Jolly Shiny Litten.</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Omega Toad|<font color="lightskyblue">(Seasons greetings!)</font>]]''' 07:55, February 14, 2022 (EST)
:'''Support 3''': This mod has seen a lot of usage so I think it should be covered with icons and character pages. --[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 14:03, January 31, 2022 (EST)
:I don't have strong feelings on having a Smash Remix article, but I will say that I '''strongly oppose''' having individual character articles and the like for the mod, like we do with PM. To be honest, I don't really support having character articles for PM either, but at least PM has had a very heavy impact on competitive smash, that I'm not convinced this mod has had. As for results, if a tournament we are covering anyway had a tournament for Remix, I guess it makes sense to include results for it, but I don't think Smash Remix content at an otherwise unnotable tournament should be used as grounds for covering that tournament. Essentially, when deciding whether or not to cover it, ignore SR content when making the decision, but if it is decided to cover the tournament, include coverage of SR on the article. I don't know what number this makes me. ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 14:05, January 31, 2022 (EST)
:'''Support 3''': But mostly echoing Alex, I don't support having articles on Remix characters unless it becomes significantly more prominent than it is now. --[[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 06:30, February 3, 2022 (EST)
:'''Support 3''': The mod is huge when it comes to adding content not present in the original game much like ''Project M'' and its successor ''Project+''. I '''strongly support''' having the Remix Characters have their own character articles like with ''PM'' and the characters from the original game can still be linked to their ''SSB'' pages since they haven't changed the veterans balance-wise. The mod itself has become too big to ignore. [[User:Diddy Kongstar|Diddy Kongstar]] ([[User talk:Diddy Kongstar|talk]]) 01:12, February 11, 2022 (EST)
:'''Support 3''': Smash Remix is enormous. I do, however, also understand a concern around opening the floodgates for other mods that might take off, like Akaneia or Beyond Melee (although Beyond Melee changes base character movesets while Akaneia doesn't). It might be wise to setup some kind of standard that explains what types of modifications are considered notable enough for inclusion in the wiki. [[File:Melee_icon.png|18px]] <span style="font-family: A-OTF Folk Pro; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold"> [[User:Davidvkimball|<font color="#410041">davidvkimball</font>]]</span> 01:39, March 10, 2022 (EST)
:'''Support 3''': I do believe that Smash Remix has a growing community that is making the mod big enough in tournaments. Plus I want this proposal to pass already so I better add another support. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]]  [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 01:17, June 14, 2022 (EDT)
==Comments==
Just gonna give this a bump. For reference, these are the big tournaments that have already occurred for the mod:
*{{Trn|Smashtoberfest}} - 63 entrants
*{{Trn|Keystoned IV}} - 25 entrants
*{{Trn|Frame Perfect Series 3: ONLINE}} - 43 entrants
*{{Trn|Frame Perfect Series 4: ONLINE}} - 43 entrants
*{{Trn|Quarantined Rapport 3}} - 45 entrants (Did not use new characters, but did use Smash Remix for stages)
*[https://challonge.com/communities/DaleRemix JaimeHR's series] - ~20 entrants
*[https://smash.gg/user/84852dbc/schedule?filter=%7B%22tournamentView%22%3A%22admin%22%7D Shalaka's series] - ~16 entrants

Upcoming events include:
*{{Trn|Frame Perfect Series 5: ONLINE}}

At this point, there's really no reason to oppose creation of an article, so the topic in mind is how much do we cover. I still believe we should go with 3, but have character icons link back to the mod page. Should the mod grow larger, which I think is pretty likely, then we can figure out whether to create individual character pages. As it currently stands, tournament results for the mod look incredibly bare and I really think we should at least include character icons. [[User:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:#850FFA; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Señor'''</span> <span style="color:#850FFA;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px green">'''Mexicano'''</span>]] ''[[User talk:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:lightpurple;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px lightgreen">(talk)</span>]]'' 22:21, March 21, 2021 (EDT)
:Bump, you can add [https://smash.gg/tournament/keystoned-4-5 Keystoned IV.5] (offline) to the list of upcoming events. [[User:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:#850FFA; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Señor'''</span> <span style="color:#850FFA;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px green">'''Mexicano'''</span>]] ''[[User talk:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:lightpurple;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px lightgreen">(talk)</span>]]'' 14:20, April 16, 2021 (EDT)

Smash Remix Tour with lots of events with a shared ruleset & a ranking increases its notability imo https://www.smashremix.net/ [[User:Patzui|Patzui]] ([[User talk:Patzui|talk]]) 12:32, February 8, 2022 (EST)

So now that some time has passed, I think it's safe to close this proposal on the verdict that option 3 won. In other words, the mod receives its own page (which has already happened) and results receive character icons. I would like to start another proposal following this to tackle character pages, Remix-exclusive events, article icons, news template usage, etc. [[User:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:#850FFA; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Señor'''</span> <span style="color:#850FFA;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px green">'''Mexicano'''</span>]] ''[[User talk:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:lightpurple;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px lightgreen">(talk)</span>]]'' 07:45, May 25, 2022 (EDT)
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