SmashWiki talk:Requests for adminship/Smorekingxg456 (2)

I'm starting to get the feeling that a number of users here don't know what they're talking about. Smoreking wrote in his candidate statement that he socked- why are people just now realizing it? Did you not read the candidate statement or something? (This only applies to certain users- you should know who you are.)
@ Solar Dragon specifically, SZL hasn't been really used since May (edits in July don't count, they were just confirming the relationship). So I'm kind of unclear on what you mean when you say "but you need to stop using multiple accounts."
Note that this has nothing to do with people's personal feelings on sockpuppetry- I'm just kind of unclear on how a couple people are so oblivious. Shadowcrest 15:45, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about that. The conversation got a bit confusing for me to understand. I have undid my move now that I understand properly. ☆The Solar Dragon ^(talk)☆ 15:52, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Resolution

I passed the RfA because:

1. Everything I said in my support vote and a couple others' votes also.
2. Support was almost unanimous, with only Semicolon and Clarinet Hawk opposing (Wartroll does not count) and RAN in neutral (who was still leaning toward support). I feel that a pass is what the community would have done in my place.
3. Even if my own personal feelings about sockpuppetry were not opposing C.Hawk's and Semicolon's personal views, I still would have passed.
   1. There was obvious intent to improve the wiki.
   2. It was months ago.

Shadowcrest 19:29, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Obvious intent to improve the wiki? To whom? I believe it was obvious intent to serve himself. By his own admission, he considered his own conduct unfit to improve the wiki, the creation of a sockpuppet being the consequent rather than the antecedent. If he had thought himself worthy, he would not have had to go under a different name to have a presumed unblemished reputation. The obvious intent was to improve his own standing, not the wiki. I thought SZL was trollish at times, and his 'improvements' went nowhere. Smoreking abused sockpuppets. It doesn't matter what his intentions were, end of story. I'm pretty sure 13375poolR thinks he's improving the wiki with every edit. Quoth the character page vandal, reverting a revert of one of his tags: "I liked the page better when it said that." Clearly, intent is a worthless measure. Length of time doesn't matter, and he showed no remorse, and showed, frankly, stupidity and even worse judgment to go ahead and admit that it was him. Smoreking should consider his RfA passed but pending appeal. We are going to have a chat about this. Semicolon (talk) 04:09, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

1/10.

SZL made a number of edits that show either above average understanding or desire to improve the wiki. Are you suggesting that he told his friends to stop using the wiki as a chatroom or commented on policies because he wanted to benefit himself? I'm dying to hear the reasoning behind that one.

He wasn't looking for an unblemished reputation on the wiki. He just didn't want to damage his friendships. I dunno when the last time you told your friends to STFU was, but it generally doesn't go over well. So he told his friends to gtfo via a sock. The only results I am seeing from such an action is that he helped the chatterboxes to find another site to chat on. What negatives are you so focused on that I'm missing?

"Intent is a worthless measure." WTF? So if I told you that I only wanted bureaucrat to run rogue with the wiki and abuse my powers out the ass, you'd be fine with it because I haven't done it yet? lol.

He made a mistake and admitted it. Why are you criticizing his admittance like he just told you he's the devil?

"Passed but pending appeal." That's pretty big talk- where was your successful RfB? In case you missed it, one admin and one bureaucrat opposed, and one bureaucrat, 3 admins, and 7 users supported. Argue if you wish, but cut the threats please. Shadowcrest 15:50, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

You can be surprisingly dense sometimes. Clearly, he made the sock to benefit himself. Whether that benefit was to 'not offend his friends' (where the desire was so that he didn't have to damage those relationships thereby avoid personal grief at the loss of those friends) or to 'comment on policies' (so he could be seen as a srs bznz user in his own words) the purpose was for his own benefit.

Now Shadowcrest, come on. This is simple reasoning here; why would he create a sock? What are the 2 reasons people create socks? One is to vandalize. The other is to get another voice in on things. People don't create socks in order to have two identical identities. He wanted SZL, as he said in his own words, so that he could mean serious business. This means that he does not perceive his main account as having been serious business in the past. It was that past he wished to erase by creating a new sock: a fresh new identity that could be serious, instead of the opposite which he had been before. That is intuitively obvious, and your failure to grasp it is just stunning.

Now here's another problem I have. Telling your friends to stfu when they need to is never fun. But guess what? We all have to do it sometimes, and it requires a special quality. It's called having courage. Having courage to stand up to your friends as well as your enemies, and he couldn't bring himself to do that honestly and forthrightly; no, he had to hide behind a sock. I don't see that as a worthy use or a good reflection on his character.

Once again, here, you're showing how dense you are by your response. The real scenario is this: a guy running for mayor of Detroit says he's going to burn every building to the ground if he becomes mayor. He gets elected, but instead of managing to burn every building to the ground, he makes it a beacon of enlightenment, revives the city's economy, and makes the public school system #1 in the country. I don't care if what he really wanted to do was burn the city down. He did a remarkable and good thing. Now, if someone says 'I want to b bcratz' and he really wants to help improve the wiki, but he's just an incompetent boob who manages to create user conflict, delete contentful pages, generally abuse his powers, and promote untrustworthy users to positions of power, I don't care what his intentions are, he needs to go. It's not what he wants to do, it's what he actually does that matters. And you clearly ignored my examples in my initial response, because you're being ignorant about the whole matter. When you don't bother to read my stuff and then intentionally misunderstand what you have read, I have no conclusion to reach aside from the fact that you are being intentionally obtuse for one reason or another, but after a while I suppose I am to blame because clearly a pattern has developed here that I have failed to recognize.

Yes, I am criticizing him for admitting that he made that mistake. Why? Because it's stupid. If a candidate for public office said "I'm just going to go out here and say this...uh...I used meth, regularly, I am addicted to prostitutes and I choke babies in my spare time," who would vote for the guy? Suppose he also was other than that a dazzling candidate. Good looking, charismatic, had great poll numbers and incredibly favored policy positions which he articulated clearly and confidently. Better than that, his opponents couldn't dig up any dirt on him. And then...he says the above. I wouldn't vote for the guy. Why? Because he's stupid. He had it in the bag, and then he showed that in reality, he's just too dumb to be in office because he hasn't the good sense to even understand advocacy and how to sell himself. I would have supported smoreking unequivocally if he hadn't put that part about SZL in. Here's the worst part. Read it again. He doesn't think he did anything wrong. He admits that he made a sock, and then he tries to make it a selling point. He clearly has no grasp of the policy, which I could somewhat precipitously generalize to all policy, and then he gets the audacity to think that it shows something good about himself. So he didn't "Make a mistake and admit it" in the sense that he admitted it was a mistake. He admitted something that was a mistake that he doesn't think was a mistake. And that's even more of a problem than any of the above.

And please. About the talk. Look at the two people who opposed. I'm not a bureaucrat, but somebody else who opposed is. And look! It's for the same reason. You passed it when you shouldn'tve. Your judgment is flawed because if had read all of the supports and opposeds and had known the policy, your conclusion should have been to fail him. Our reasons were above and beyond far more legitimate and convincing than anyone who supported, including yourself. So yes, this is passed pending appeal. Please think before you respond to this. Semicolon (talk) 17:00, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

"What are the 2 reasons people create socks?" This statement isn't even true. Not even arguable- just completely false. Smoreking, Auron, Vili, Wyn, Pling etc etc- you may not know any of them except Smore, but ask any single one of them and none of them will say they socked to vandalize or get an extra vote on something. (They're all also admins [2 bureaucrats] at one site or another, and I still consider 3 of them better admins than everyone here except DE.) Even a quick poll in GuildWiki's IRC got me 6 reasons from a single person. So tbh... 0/10 on that one. :/

"He wanted SZL, as he said in his own words, so that he could mean serious business. This means that he does not perceive his main account as having been serious business in the past. It was that past he wished to erase by creating a new sock: a fresh new identity that could be serious, instead of the opposite which he had been before. That is intuitively obvious, and your failure to grasp it is just stunning. " <-- Ok. All I see are a bunch of true statements that have no ethical attachments (much less negatives ones), and one crack at my competence. He wanted to be serious, and used a sock to become it. Seriousness benefits wikis. Virtually no harm was done sockpuppeting in SZL's case, except that you consider socking the 8th Cardinal Sin.

From your third paragraph, I gather that you've never really been alone? Or if so, you're a solitary person anyway? Most of Smoreking's older friends would not have handled being told to stfu well, and I would not be surprised if they had terminated their friendships with him. (For example, upon REGISTERING- not talking to anyone, not adding anyone but Smore and Miles- at AiB, BNK told all his SmashWiki friends to ignore me. Simply because I existed. Did you know you can take courage too far?) Try out a little empathy. Would I have done the same thing in Smoreking's position? Maybe not, but do I see where he's coming from? Yeah, I do, and I don't see why you refuse to. Smoreking now has more friends than he did back then, so would he have done the same thing presented a similar situation now? I doubt it. I'm not a psychic, but then again neither are you, so... Also, please note that in your third paragraph you specifically mention honesty and forthrightness- you ignore them in a minute.

Your fourth paragraph- that's all well fine and good. Except, Smoreking has contributed excellently and wanted to help the wiki, and the only thing you can hold against him is that he socked. I find your oppose based on one single "negative" aspect in the face of a myriad of positive ones, and that is why I promoted him despite your proclaimed all-superior oppose vote.

Tbh, I find your 5th paragraph somewhere between disturbing and appalling. Seeing as you criticized Smoreking for not dealing with issues in a honest and forthright manner, I find it almost humorous that you then continue on to say that you would have preferred Smore to lie by omission and deliberately manipulate the people commenting on his RfA.

Unlike you, I've actually spoken to Smoreking privately about a variety of issues, including socking, and he admits that it was a mistake and that in hindsight he would not have done it. I've a screenshot of the conversation if you'd like to see it.

Furthermore, I do see SZL's contributions as a good thing. Because ultimately, they were positive. You can bitch and moan about them being made from a sockpuppet, but why does that matter? Abusive users were asked to find another site to socialize, plans were made to improve the wiki overall, and policy discussion occurred. Those were all goals back then (and two of them still to this day), and Smoreking/SZL helped to achieve them, even if it was done in an unorthodox manner. Would I explicitly encourage socking? No. But am I reasonable enough to see that it is not the end of the wiki? Yep.

As an additional note, we have not yet adopted SmashWiki:No Sockpuppets. I also am fairly sure that the policy SmashWiki:Criteria for Promotion hasn't been proposed either. You're welcome to start such proposals, though?

Really, the only part of your post that I can honestly give you a 10/10 on was the part where you decreed that your opinions were better than mine (and the other 11 users who supported). You're rather good at proclaiming superior opinions, you know. Shadowcrest 21:28, October 26, 2009 (UTC)